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Backpack help please

Greg Haag

Well-known member
I thought I would update the thread. While I like things about all three bags, I have settled on the Atlas Adventure. In the end, there were 2 deciding factors for me. First, and by far number one, this waist band worked best for me on taking more weight off my shoulders. Second, the added storage, especially for longer winter hikes. I think I have figured out why many people have multiple packs beyond the obvious different packs for different situations. What I discovered, at least for me, it took time/miles with each pack to work thru this. I would not have been able to tell just trying these on in a store or at a trade show. A note here on the Atlas, there is more curvature in the frame and it took some time for me to find a configuration with the straps to get the pack setup so it was not pushing against my head. Here is my current configuration, if anyone can suggest a more efficient layout please let me know.

Atlas Adventure.jpg
 

Wayne Fox

Workshop Member
Thanks Greg. Especially for the pics. I think I’m going to give the adventure a try.

I assume the tripod is side mount? Seems most camera makers do tripods on the side (I have some Clik’s that are designed to be centered) which I hate because then the bag is off balance and puts more weight on one shoulder.

Anyone come up with a good method to add a center carry option? I noticed in a few of Art Wolfe’s videos his is centered and is even upside down to move the weight lower.
 

Greg Haag

Well-known member
Thanks Greg. Especially for the pics. I think I’m going to give the adventure a try.

I assume the tripod is side mount? Seems most camera makers do tripods on the side (I have some Clik’s that are designed to be centered) which I hate because then the bag is off balance and puts more weight on one shoulder.

Anyone come up with a good method to add a center carry option? I noticed in a few of Art Wolfe’s videos his is centered and is even upside down to move the weight lower.
Wayne,
When I was researching the Atlas Adventure online, I watched a video with someones setup having a center mount tripod. This is also what I would like to do, if I find it this weekend I will post a link..
Thanks,
Greg
 

jng

Well-known member
I thought I would update the thread. While I like things about all three bags, I have settled on the Atlas Adventure. In the end, there were 2 deciding factors for me. First, and by far number one, this waist band worked best for me on taking more weight off my shoulders. Second, the added storage, especially for longer winter hikes. I think I have figured out why many people have multiple packs beyond the obvious different packs for different situations. What I discovered, at least for me, it took time/miles with each pack to work thru this. I would not have been able to tell just trying these on in a store or at a trade show. A note here on the Atlas, there is more curvature in the frame and it took some time for me to find a configuration with the straps to get the pack setup so it was not pushing against my head. Here is my current configuration, if anyone can suggest a more efficient layout please let me know.
Greg,

Glad that you settled on the right pack in a data-driven way. One comment: you might consider storing your lenses with the front elements facing down, so that you can handle the lenses by the rear mount when removing them from the pack. It seems the common wisdom is that grabbing the lens by the front - especially the 32HR - can cause misalignment of the front element group by distorting the rather flimsy Copal shutter. Shutter replacements at the Cambo factory are quite pricey (in the neighborhood of $2000) and with the scarcity of Copals you'd probably be forced into an aperture-only mount as well. I had a recent scare with my 70HR but luckily it turned out to be "only" a bent t/s mechanism.

John
 

Adammork

Member
Greg,

Glad that you settled on the right pack in a data-driven way. One comment: you might consider storing your lenses with the front elements facing down, so that you can handle the lenses by the rear mount when removing them from the pack. It seems the common wisdom is that grabbing the lens by the front - especially the 32HR - can cause misalignment of the front element group by distorting the rather flimsy Copal shutter. Shutter replacements at the Cambo factory are quite pricey (in the neighborhood of $2000) and with the scarcity of Copals you'd probably be forced into an aperture-only mount as well. I had a recent scare with my 70HR but luckily it turned out to be "only" a bent t/s mechanism.

John

I always handle my lenses by the front element - specially the 32HR - it’s the huge weight and size of that front element that causes extra stress on the copal shutter, so it’s better to support that weight directly with your hands.

If you are handling the lens by the rear element, all the weight of the front element is then only supported by the copal shutter.

/adam
 

jng

Well-known member
Good point. Regardless of face up or face down, it's important to avoid placing any torque on the shutter mount by twisting or canting the lens to remove it from its nest. I'm curious to hear what others think on this subject. I've heard the gamut from "I just toss my lenses in the bag" to "I make sure to do x, y and z..."

John
 

vjbelle

Well-known member
Matt,
Thank you, I will see if that helps! I cannot begin to carry this pack any distance loaded with gear, I am trying to stay under 35lbs, preferably low 30's. Unfortunately, I am the weakest link in the chain on all these packs.
Thanks,
Greg
Ha..... I try to stay below 17lbs which must seem like an impossibility to you:D. I'm smaller than you and can't imagine 30lbs. Then I'm also not taking any long hikes. My thinktank airport essential is able to store 5 lenses (Schneider 60, 72, 120, 150, Rody 90) a 4150 or 7RM4, Actus and bellows and extra batteries and have lots of room to spare. All of this weighs less than 17.5lbs. It also does not include the tripod which I always hand carry.

Hope it all works out well for you. Looks like your having lots of fun.....:thumbup:

Victor
 

dchew

Well-known member
I've always followed the belief that most of the stress on equipment occurs while hiking. Probably well into the 100,000 steps, each one jolting the equipment (especially walking down hill). Therefore, I orient larger lenses vertically in the bag while it is in place on your back. lens cap pointing up or down depending on lens shape and/or whether you use hard lens caps or the original OEM soft cap version (for sk and Rodi). In Greg's photo, that would mean rotating the lenses so they are pointing up, particularly the 32hr and 90hr. I also wrap the necks in a lens cloth so they have some support at the yoke.

However, I have no evidence to support that it matters either way.

Dave
 

Greg Haag

Well-known member
I've always followed the belief that most of the stress on equipment occurs while hiking. Probably well into the 100,000 steps, each one jolting the equipment (especially walking down hill). Therefore, I orient larger lenses vertically in the bag while it is in place on your back. lens cap pointing up or down depending on lens shape and/or whether you use hard lens caps or the original OEM soft cap version (for sk and Rodi). In Greg's photo, that would mean rotating the lenses so they are pointing up, particularly the 32hr and 90hr. I also wrap the necks in a lens cloth so they have some support at the yoke.

However, I have no evidence to support that it matters either way.

Dave
Dave,
Thank your for your feedback! A couple follow up questions. First, on the way my lenses are currently packed, are you saying to reverse that? Currently on all my pack, I have all lenses caps (front of lens) facing up. Second, currently I always break the entire system down, do you think it is acceptable to have a back/body/lense assembled in the pack?
Thanks,
Greg
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
I warped an SK 35XL into uselessness :cry:. I must have been too cavalier about packing it. It was in a large ICU inside a carry-on, the Tilopa being checked baggage.

The moral is just to be careful (and take the CF off before transport).

Matt
 

Greg Haag

Well-known member
Ha..... I try to stay below 17lbs which must seem like an impossibility to you:D. I'm smaller than you and can't imagine 30lbs. Then I'm also not taking any long hikes. My thinktank airport essential is able to store 5 lenses (Schneider 60, 72, 120, 150, Rody 90) a 4150 or 7RM4, Actus and bellows and extra batteries and have lots of room to spare. All of this weighs less than 17.5lbs. It also does not include the tripod which I always hand carry.

Hope it all works out well for you. Looks like your having lots of fun.....:thumbup:

Victor
Victor, I may need help reducing the weight or an intervention! I have 2 setup options below, the first being my regular setup w/o any of the extra stuff and the second is about the lightest I can go. The second may not be completely accurate, because that tripod is probably not a good option for my gear. The checkmarks represent the items in each setup.

Bag Weight-1.jpg

Bag Weight-2.jpg
 

vjbelle

Well-known member
For sure I would try to stay with your lighter setup. I would take the P0 which should work just fine - I'm taking a P0 to Death Valley. Can't imagine you would need all of those batteries as I have never needed more than 3 but it would not be fun to run out of juice.

Just weighed my Rody 90 in Actus Copal 0 lens plate and it comes in at 1.75lbs. That's another area where I shave some weight which really doesn't pertain to your situation.

I have more bags than I care to mention and sent back an F stop which I really didn't like. I really like Thinktank and even though I don't have your particular bag I do have the Airport Essential and the Airport commuter which is huge in comparison to the Airport Essential and yet I can get it on any plane and I only pick up about a pound.

Stay with your lighter setup......

Cheers....

Victor
 

Shashin

Well-known member
Greg, sorry if I am late to the conversation (so I am sorry if the bag question has been finally settled). Personally, I never use photo bags for two reasons: they are heavy and don't carry loads well. I prefer to have my gear in padded inserts and pouches or stuff sacks. I like stuff sack to pack as they a light and protect equipment from dust and rain when the pack is open. My camera stuff sack is also large enough to slip over the camera when it is on the tripod to handle sudden changes in the environment. I also use the stuff sack over camera when it is around my neck (warning, it will not look cool).

I use an Osprey Farpoint 40, which weighs about 3.5lb. My lenses are in a Think Thank pouch and belt system, which can be pulled out and worn when working. Not sure that would work for tech lenses though:



But I would also look as technical packs. The Osprey EXOS 38 is just 2.5lb and comes in three sizes. It has a really good support system. (Thomas Heaton just took this pack to Nepal for a trek and was really impressed.) https://www.osprey.com/us/en/product/exos-38-EXOS38S18_569.html (I have the Farpoint for airline travel--it is a great carry-on bag.)

I would also say yes to the P0 for the tripod head. I have found that to work really well in all kings of condition with heavy loads (Pentax 645D and 300mm lens).

When working in the Japanese Alps a long time ago, I had my Mamiya 6 on an old Gitzo Totalux travel tripod with an even smaller ball head and it worked well in very windy conditions. But being in the mountains, tripod height is not such a big deal to get a perspective and that Gitzo was short for me. I have just picked up a Traveler 1545t and am very impressed. Since you are using a leaf or electronic shutter, most camera vibration is minimal. Then it is just a case of a few simple things in the field like standing up wind of the tripod to protect it. You certainly have time to test your Gitzo tripod in windy conditions before you leave to see how well it handles your camera.

I would also ask if all three lenses are needed? I do most of my work with one or two lenses, the third, while nice, tend to be used infrequently and even less when I am tired. Stitched panos are a nice way to save weight at the wide end, but I like having a wide. What I usually drop is the long lens. However, some of my longest and most demanding trips were done with one camera and lens. Another strategy I use is carry one main camera and lens and a second smaller setup for those other shots. I supplimented my Mamiya 6 with a Widelux and my Pentax 645D with a Sony RX-1, for example.

I think the secret to this type of packing comes through (usually painful) experience. I kind of know what I am actually going to do when I am in the field vs. what I wish I would do. So I am pretty ruthless in my packing. But I also know I am dealing with limited energy and so minimizing weight is really important for me. Another is pacing during the hike. But all of this is very subjective. (Still, from your spread sheets, it looks like you are carrying three 10lb bags of flour. :bugeyes::D)

One more secret: a really good pair of hiking boots!
 

Greg Haag

Well-known member
Greg, sorry if I am late to the conversation (so I am sorry if the bag question has been finally settled). Personally, I never use photo bags for two reasons: they are heavy and don't carry loads well. I prefer to have my gear in padded inserts and pouches or stuff sacks. I like stuff sack to pack as they a light and protect equipment from dust and rain when the pack is open. My camera stuff sack is also large enough to slip over the camera when it is on the tripod to handle sudden changes in the environment. I also use the stuff sack over camera when it is around my neck (warning, it will not look cool).

I use an Osprey Farpoint 40, which weighs about 3.5lb. My lenses are in a Think Thank pouch and belt system, which can be pulled out and worn when working. Not sure that would work for tech lenses though:



But I would also look as technical packs. The Osprey EXOS 38 is just 2.5lb and comes in three sizes. It has a really good support system. (Thomas Heaton just took this pack to Nepal for a trek and was really impressed.) https://www.osprey.com/us/en/product/exos-38-EXOS38S18_569.html (I have the Farpoint for airline travel--it is a great carry-on bag.)

I would also say yes to the P0 for the tripod head. I have found that to work really well in all kings of condition with heavy loads (Pentax 645D and 300mm lens).

When working in the Japanese Alps a long time ago, I had my Mamiya 6 on an old Gitzo Totalux travel tripod with an even smaller ball head and it worked well in very windy conditions. But being in the mountains, tripod height is not such a big deal to get a perspective and that Gitzo was short for me. I have just picked up a Traveler 1545t and am very impressed. Since you are using a leaf or electronic shutter, most camera vibration is minimal. Then it is just a case of a few simple things in the field like standing up wind of the tripod to protect it. You certainly have time to test your Gitzo tripod in windy conditions before you leave to see how well it handles your camera.

I would also ask if all three lenses are needed? I do most of my work with one or two lenses, the third, while nice, tend to be used infrequently and even less when I am tired. Stitched panos are a nice way to save weight at the wide end, but I like having a wide. What I usually drop is the long lens. However, some of my longest and most demanding trips were done with one camera and lens. Another strategy I use is carry one main camera and lens and a second smaller setup for those other shots. I supplimented my Mamiya 6 with a Widelux and my Pentax 645D with a Sony RX-1, for example.

I think the secret to this type of packing comes through (usually painful) experience. I kind of know what I am actually going to do when I am in the field vs. what I wish I would do. So I am pretty ruthless in my packing. But I also know I am dealing with limited energy and so minimizing weight is really important for me. Another is pacing during the hike. But all of this is very subjective. (Still, from your spread sheets, it looks like you are carrying three 10lb bags of flour. :bugeyes::D)

One more secret: a really good pair of hiking boots!
Will, so many good nuggets of advice! Decision I guess has not been made, I think I will follow yours and Victors guidance and go lighter. I am going to work on that this weekend. Thank you!
 

Greg Haag

Well-known member
For sure I would try to stay with your lighter setup. I would take the P0 which should work just fine - I'm taking a P0 to Death Valley. Can't imagine you would need all of those batteries as I have never needed more than 3 but it would not be fun to run out of juice.

Just weighed my Rody 90 in Actus Copal 0 lens plate and it comes in at 1.75lbs. That's another area where I shave some weight which really doesn't pertain to your situation.

I have more bags than I care to mention and sent back an F stop which I really didn't like. I really like Thinktank and even though I don't have your particular bag I do have the Airport Essential and the Airport commuter which is huge in comparison to the Airport Essential and yet I can get it on any plane and I only pick up about a pound.

Stay with your lighter setup......

Cheers....

Victor
Victor, great advice! I think between what you and Will had to say, I am going to spend the weekend looking at ways to go lighter. Thank you!
 

dchew

Well-known member
Dave,
Thank your for your feedback! A couple follow up questions. First, on the way my lenses are currently packed, are you saying to reverse that? Currently on all my pack, I have all lenses caps (front of lens) facing up. Second, currently I always break the entire system down, do you think it is acceptable to have a back/body/lense assembled in the pack?
Thanks,
Greg
Greg, what I mean is facing up toward the sky while walking. So in your picture it would be rotated 90 degrees. When you open the pack on the ground you would see the the side of the lens, not the top or bottom.

Edit: sorry Greg just read your post again; forgot the second question. I guess it depends on the mounted lens. I wouldn’t mount a 32hr, and the 90 would make me a bit nervous too. I do put my setup away in the pack when assembled, but my lenses are pretty small by choice. I keep the 60xl on the camera when stowed with the back attached. Again, oriented with the back at the bottom of the pack and the lens facing the sky when walking. I will grab some picks and post them later. I’ve changes things around since I posted in previous threads.

Dave
 
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vieri

Well-known member
Late to the party - I use Shimoda bags, the Explore 40 in particular. Shimodas are extremely well built and the most comfortable bags I ever carried, bar none. And, as everyone here, I pretty much tried everything. They just came out with the new Action X bags, of which I ordered 2 (a 50L and a 30L, very likely the 30L will go to my wife). While there is no perfect bag, and while I'd modify something here and there, the new Aciton X fixed most of the little problems I had with the Explore and come very darn close for me - on paper and hopefully, at least, since I am still waiting for delivery :D

Best regards,

Vieri
 

Greg Haag

Well-known member
Late to the party - I use Shimoda bags, the Explore 40 in particular. Shimodas are extremely well built and the most comfortable bags I ever carried, bar none. And, as everyone here, I pretty much tried everything. They just came out with the new Action X bags, of which I ordered 2 (a 50L and a 30L, very likely the 30L will go to my wife). While there is no perfect bag, and while I'd modify something here and there, the new Aciton X fixed most of the little problems I had with the Explore and come very darn close for me - on paper and hopefully, at least, since I am still waiting for delivery :D

Best regards,

Vieri
Vieri,
Thank you for your input, I have heard great things about the comfort of the Shimoda bags. I hope you will share your thoughts when the Action X arrives.
Thanks again,
Greg
 

dchew

Well-known member
I held back from posting my pack and setup because as many of you know, I use a non-photo backpack like Will. My setup is probably not all that relevant for most people. But, since this morphed into how to pack things, here it goes...

First, I think it makes sense to define the standard pack orientation:
Front: The part of the pack you see when you are walking behind someone else looking at their pack.
Back: The part with the suspension that clings to your back.
Top: The part by your head when you are wearing it.
Bottom: The part by your butt.

I use a Mammot Trion Pro 50L. It has a back panel opening like F-Stop and a few other photo backpacks. I really like back panel openings for photography, and would never go back to laying the suspension down in the grass/mud/water/rocks. The pack is designed for ski touring/mountaineering. That's good because it is comfortable, relatively light and designed for lots of movement. That's bad because it means I have to turn it into a photo friendly pack. I've accomplished the photo-specific part with two basic add-ons: The f-stop small-pro ICU, and some goofy little monopod carrying thingy from "Oben". I use it to help hold the tripod in place. Because the pack is designed to carry skis, side straps are plenty beefy to carry a tripod.

Here is the pack with a ruler for reference. About 2 feet tall.
Front:

Back:


This is what it looks like with the back panel open, nothing removed. Micropuff jacket on top, ICU in the middle, filter case in the bottom.



As mentioned above, my lenses are pretty small and light so I don't worry about the orientation. However, I do carry the camera mounted together with the sk60xl. Here, the loupe and 17mm adapter are removed. Note how the camera points up toward the top of the pack to minimize stress from each step.



Here, the camera and sk90mm are removed. Sk35 in the bottom left of the ICU that sits behind the sk90. I use a smorgasbord of dividers from various packs that fit just right to cradle the camera. In fact, I don't I have any f-stop dividers in this ICU; they are a mix of Thinktank and Lowepro, I think.


Tripod attached, and the little Oben tripod pouch.




Here are the weights of everything. Left columns would be the heaviest kit I could take. I would never carry all that stuff. Middle column is more "normal" for me. Maybe the bigger tripod, removing some filters, whatever. My normal carry is right around 20-23 lbs including camera gear, tripod, pack, water and other personal gear. The right columns would be the lightest I would normally do; just under 8 lbs of camera equipment, plus another 10 lbs for tripod, pack and personal stuff. Total just under 19 lbs.



Dave

Edit: The always-attentive jng reminded me I did not include the Zeiss 250 SA. While I don't normally carry it with me, it is there above the ICU sometimes. That adds 3.0 lbs (!) including adapters, hood and lens wrap.
 
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Greg Haag

Well-known member
I held back from posting my pack and setup because as many of you know, I use a non-photo backpack like Will. My setup is probably not all that relevant for most people. But, since this morphed into how to pack things, here it goes...

First, I think it makes sense to define the standard pack orientation:
Front: The part of the pack you see when you are walking behind someone else looking at their pack.
Back: The part with the suspension that clings to your back.
Top: The part by your head when you are wearing it.
Bottom: The part by your butt.

I use a Mammot Trion Pro 50L. It has a back panel opening like F-Stop and a few other photo backpacks. I really like back panel openings for photography, and would never go back to laying the suspension down in the grass/mud/water/rocks. The pack is designed for ski touring/mountaineering. That's good because it is comfortable, relatively light and designed for lots of movement. That's bad because it means I have to turn it into a photo friendly pack. I've accomplished the photo-specific part with two basic add-ons: The f-stop small-pro ICU, and some goofy little monopod carrying thingy from "Oben". I use it to help hold the tripod in place. Because the pack is designed to carry skis, side straps are plenty beefy to carry a tripod.

Here is the pack with a ruler for reference. About 2 feet tall.
Front:

Back:


This is what it looks like with the back panel open, nothing removed. Micropuff jacket on top, ICU in the middle, filter case in the bottom.



As mentioned above, my lenses are pretty small and light so I don't worry about the orientation. However, I do carry the camera mounted together with the sk60xl. Here, the loupe and 17mm adapter are removed. Note how the camera points up toward the top of the pack to minimize stress from each step.



Here, the camera and sk90mm are removed. Sk35 in the bottom left of the ICU that sits behind the sk90. I use a smorgasbord of dividers from various packs that fit just right to cradle the camera. In fact, I don't I have any f-stop dividers in this ICU; they are a mix of Thinktank and Lowepro, I think.


Tripod attached, and the little Oben tripod pouch.




Here are the weights of everything. Left columns would be the heaviest kit I could take. I would never carry all that stuff. Middle column is more "normal" for me. Maybe the bigger tripod, removing some filters, whatever. My normal carry is right around 20-23 lbs including camera gear, tripod, pack, water and other personal gear. The right columns would be the lightest I would normally do; just under 8 lbs of camera equipment, plus another 10 lbs for tripod, pack and personal stuff. Total just under 19 lbs.



Dave

Dave, as usual incredible information! I am sure that I’m going to have some questions after I get time to process and think this through. Thank you so much!
 
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