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[stephengilbert]

Willem,

You sound like a representative for the Clam folks. I think we can agree that there are two schools of thought about whether there is something unsavory going on here. You like the Clam. You think there's nothing improper about their copying other people's products. Fine. Can't we leave it at that?*

Steve

* He asked, knowing that the answer is likely "No."

 

[Rethmeier]

Steve,
I agree fully with you.
The people at PhotoClam have been extremely helpful and polite.
I'm happy with their product,being a copy or not.
What I don't like is a bad copy.
We live in a free world,especially some of you Americans should know that.

And yes I have a real Rolex.

I also agree with you,that this topic has run it's course.

Best,

Willem.

 

[Rethmeier]

Steve,
I forgot that you were a lawyer.
In that case I can understand your dislike of copies.
Maybe there is a case for you with AS and PhotoClam?
Best,
Willem.

 

[stephengilbert]

Actually, I'm a criminal lawyer. I doubt that they're committing a crime. Perhaps you could begin importing them into the U.S. or France and we'll see.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Yea I got Steve on retainer for the bank jobs I may have to do. Paid him advance already just in case. Ah **** I just could not resist :ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

 

[Rethmeier]

I think I'll leave it at that!
Post#206 that is.
Happy shooting!

 

[aboudd]

Multiflex gear head -

I want to thank Lance Shad for telling me about the head in the first place and referring me here to the thread and another hearty thank you to Willem for telling me all about it. I got mine today. On first inspection it looks quite nicely built. I must say this about Photo Clam - they respond quickly and ship lightening-fast. It took about 4 days from Korea to Philadelphia. I'll post my experiences with it later.

 

[Tim Ernst]

Add me to the list of HAPPY CAMPERS with a new Photoclam Multiflex cube head, $985 plus $45 shipping to Arkansas. I placed the order on Thursday and had the head in my mailbox on Monday morning.

I've done quite a bit of research these past few weeks about this type of head and asked a lot of questions - both to customers and to the manufacturers of the two major brands of cube heads (AS and Photoclam) - there are no dealers in my part of the country for either head so there were no dealers to speak to directly. It seemed to me that both heads were pretty much the same - function and quality-wise - so that was a wash. The AS head is more expensive, needs the clamp replaced, and their bubble levels are not accurate (according to customers on the web), so those issues had to be factored in. Many folks had noted the black hole that seems to be the AS company when it comes to customer relations and communications as well. While price was not an issue with me I really could find no reason to buy the AS head, even if I could have found it in stock when I was ready to order, which I could not.

On the other hand the friendly folks at Photoclam in Korea were always happy to answer whatever questions I had, usually within an hour or two during business hours, and as I noted above - door to door to my cabin 60 miles deep in the woods was four days total, and that counted the weekend. Their head is everything I expected it to be, certainly no less quality than the AS cube and many would say a better head due to their clamp and level issues.

My own bottom line is that I could care less what brand is on the tools that I use or how much they cost as long as they are the best tool for the job - I think the Multiflex cube head is the best there is for me, and I won't hesitate to buy another one when I need yet another head (I already have six or seven - a tripod and head whore I guess!).

Thanks to everyone on this board who took the time to pass along their thoughts.

And by the way, I don't wear a watch...

 

[Dale Allyn]

Thanks for the report, Tim.

Can you comment on the knob "knurling"? In earlier photos of the Photoclam I noticed that there may be a slight difference b/n the two there. Can you confirm whether the Photoclam uses a friction band on the knobs rather than actually moulded or machined knurling? It's a minor point, but one which I'm curious about. I've experienced some issues with the type which are added bands in sub-freezing temps. and would like to know which each uses.

Thanks.

 

[MHFA]

Here is the price of a german Arca online shop:

"Jetzt als Jubiläumsangebot! Zum 85jährigen Bestehen der Firma ARCA SWISS gibt es den Cube mit Ledertasche zum Spezialpreis von 1359 € zzgl. Mwst. "

http://www.arca-shop.de/Stativkoepfe/C1-cube/ARCA-SWISS-C1-inkl-Ledertasche::574.html

A photographer should be sensitive with the idea of copyright.



Michael

 

[Tim Ernst]

Hey Dale most of the knobs use a rubber band around the outside (the two pan knobs are metal). I found the regular knobs on both cube species too small and I LOVE the large knobs on the Multiflex cube! While I never use thick gloves even below zero, these large knobs could easily be used with them.

 

[Tim Ernst]

This is certainly not a copyright issue....

 

[Dale Allyn]

Hey Dale most of the knobs use a rubber band around the outside (the two pan knobs are metal). I found the regular knobs on both cube species too small and I LOVE the large knobs on the Multiflex cube! While I never use thick gloves even below zero, these large knobs could easily be used with them.

Thanks for the info, Tim. I also don't use thick gloves ever, but I have found that sub-freezing temps can cause the rubber band things to slip. Just trying to learn of all the little differences.

Thanks.

 

[Rethmeier]

You can buy those big knobs as spare parts.
Mine I got for free,as I directed a lot of business to PhotoClam.
Cheers,
Willem.

 

[Bob]

Copies...
it depends a lot on the lifetime of the patent or design patent in the appropriate jurisdiction.
I have no idea when the IPR on the cube expires, as all IPR does eventually, but I assume that if there is infringement, then Arca ought to be vigorously defending it.
I have heard nothing, but that is not unusual.
-bob

 

[smei_ch]

Copies...
it depends a lot on the lifetime of the patent or design patent in the appropriate jurisdiction.
I have no idea when the IPR on the cube expires, as all IPR does eventually, but I assume that if there is infringement, then Arca ought to be vigorously defending it.
I have heard nothing, but that is not unusual.
-bob

It might very well be because a double goniometer isn't Arca-France's own idea. The patents for that are held by an american company.

As could be seen here and in the other MF forum Arca preferred to threaten Multiflex buyers directly.

 

[Andy Biggs]

I just thought I would resurrect this thread, as I recently noticed that the Multiflex head is selling for $1270 on eBay, direct from the manufacturer. The original Cube is selling for $1600 now at B&H. The price gap has been minimized, for sure.

 

[arashm]

Wow
a while back when I was looking at the Multiflex it was selling for High $600.00
now it's almost double, that's crazy, I think one of the things it had going for it was the price, as it sits I'd spend the extra and get the Cube anyways if I was in the market for it.
Just my 2C
am

 

[Mitchell]

I guess this is a dead horse, but I found the whole ethics of the consumer a very interesting question.

It seems that a large proportion of writers on the thread see no ethical responsibility on the part of consumers. Or perhaps it is just in this particular situation?

I would be very interested to know if people think there is ever an ethical responsibility for consumers? Is there no ethical responsibility beyond what is legal?

For instance, is it OK to pirate images from the web even if it is legal?
Do people have an ethical responsibility to not buy products because of unfair labor practices, or environmental concerns, etc., or are product price, quality, and legality the only concerns?

I know this is totally off topic, but I'm fascinated.

Best,

Mitchell

 

[carstenw]

I think yes, we do have an ethical responsibility to do the right thing, even when the law is too lax about it. There clearly isn't always a legal responsibility though. I could not get myself to buy the Multiclam until I knew that there was no patent or other issue, even if I do believe that the head is probably as well made as the Arca.