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Help me choose a digital back for a tech cam

alistairsimmons

Well-known member
So, the shortlist at the moment seems to be:
IQ1/2/3 50
Upcoming Hasselblad CFVII 50c

Is there any reason/s why any of the IQ1, 2, or 3 50 should be either ruled out or given particular preference?
The Hasselblad looks like it could be a winner, but nobody knows yet, and it might take HB another year+ to get the firmware up to potential. We’ll see.

Are there any advantages to the CCD backs like IQ1/2 60 which I’ve overlooked and should reconsider?
If you’re not using on the Phase One XF, you won’t see any advantages in going for the IQ3 over the IQ2. The IQ2 has the WiFi module for use with Capture Pilot which could be very useful. It also has IMO a very useful Exposure Zone tool in the preview, which means you can gauge your RAW exposure in the field. The IQ1 has neither the WiFi module, or this Zone Tool. It would be useful to see these in practice to evaluate whether you would find these tools useful, but I’m tempted at this point to say that you would.

The advantage of the CCD backs over the 50MP, as I see it, would be the 16-bit colour (as opposed to 14-bit) and the full frame sensor to get more scope from your lenses. This full frame sensor, as discussed elsewhere, could be considered a disadvantage when thinking about working around the image circles of your lenses, but again it would be good to see both side by side in practice, in your working environment/method to decide what is more beneficial.

As well as this I definitely think you need to see the difference in live view between CCD and CMOS in the flesh, to judge how useful, or unimportant, this is to you.

A
 

Pelorus

Member
Given that list, don't rule out the Leaf Credo 50 as a candidate. You won't get WiFi etc but it's a nice back to use and more cost effective than its P1 cousins.

As for HB...contentious though this may be and as a previous HB user...I get a sense of a doomed future and a repeated failure to deliver. Wait at your peril...<don flak jacket and helmet>:p

[snip]

As I seem to be leaning more towards CMOS that pushes the larger sensor backs out of the picture.

So, the shortlist at the moment seems to be:
IQ1/2/3 50
Upcoming Hasselblad CFVII 50c

Is there any reason/s why any of the IQ1, 2, or 3 50 should be either ruled out or given particular preference?
The Hasselblad looks like it could be a winner, but nobody knows yet, and it might take HB another year+ to get the firmware up to potential. We’ll see.

Software wise I’m happy to use C1 or Phocus, I really only use the raw converter for white balance and fine tuning exposure if necessary, everything else happens in Photoshop.

Are there any advantages to the CCD backs like IQ1/2 60 which I’ve overlooked and should reconsider?

Thanks for your help everyone, this is all very much appreciated. :)
 

MrSmith

Member
how I use it. I often walk 6 - 10 miles in a day carrying kit, and though the Actus is pretty small and light the WRS1200 works better for me for this kind of use. I read in a few places that the focal length I’ll be using the Actus doesn’t offer much movement due to the sensor being burried quite deeply inside the camera body,
Are you sure that’s not referring to use with mirrorless bodies? There is no ‘body’ just a frame for the digital back.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
CCD vs CMOS for tech camera, the Live View on the CMOS IMO is a total game changer for tech cameras. The 50MP back has a wonderful Live View and makes manually focusing both near and far object easy. The Phase solution has no peaking, the later versions of the Hasselblad, CFV II 50c I believe do, since Hasselblad added peaking to the X1D. The previous point of 16 bit advantage of the CCD backs, I feel is baseless. Sure the CCD backs have a "16 bit readout" but it's shown over and over that the last 2 bits, add nothing to the file and are basically nose. Just google this, and you will find plenty of debates, and info this dating back to 2011.

The CMOS 50Mp backs, all use the same chip, the 50MP Sony. However not all companies get the same capabilities out of it. All of them have the same crop factor about 30 percent over the "full frame" CCD and CMOS backs. Your 55mm lens will frame more like a 72mm lens, (believe I have the crop factor figured correctly). There will be considerable color cast on shifts but the LCC process in C1 can resolve most of it. Not sure how well the Phocus solution works assume similar.

If you are liking the 50MP, I would consider the following: CFV II 50c Hasselblad, Phase One IQ250 (350 if you can find a deal on one). The 50c has a tilting LCD, with touch which is something I would have loved to see on the IQ3 and 4, but Phase has yet to develop anything beyond the basic layout of the IQ1 backs. The 50c should also have an e shutter, which is a huge advantage for a tech camera as you are no longer limited to a copal or other shutter. The 50c is listed at 7.4K with the 907 faceplate that allows use of the X1D glass, I am sure there is a way to mount just the 50c to a tech camera. You can kill the dark frame on longer exposures also. The tilting screen option just adds so much more capability in scene setup, i.e. low to the ground camera setup can be hard to get your eye to the LCD on a P1 back, and being able to tilt the screen can aid with Live View and Image preview by helping to remove sun glare.

IQ250, old but still an excellent back, however I am sure that most you find will have a lot of actuations on them. One of the cleanest backs I ever used. It has wifi, which would allow you to use Capture Pilot to assist with focus and other image capture related issues. It will easily mount to any tech camera, and allows you a very good Live View for focus. The back will run for quite a while on one battery and the zoom to 100% to check focus on the LCD of the back is excellent. Still have a mandatory dark frame on exposures 1 second or longer. This can become quite troublesome in low light scenes especially where you are attempting to shoot a bracketed exposure as the back will shoot the dark frame before it frees up the back for the next shot, i.e. 15 second exposure and 15 sec dark frame.

The IQ350, adds a few newer features, but still no e shutter, which is a shame as all the other manufactures using this chip figured out a way to use the e shutter. ,

The IQ150, has the same image quality of the 250/350, albeit with less features, like no wifi.

CCD backs, IQ160, (stay away from the IQ260 as it adds really nothing over over the IQ160 at least in image quality and the 1hour exposures are IMO less than stellar). IQ180/280 are still great tools, give you a 20MP sensor plus image when you need higher ISO, past 400. No Live View, and it makes the use a tech camera difficult in the field for critical focus. Color is great and if can stay at base ISO, then image quality will be excellent, but for me the advantages of CMOS make it a better solution for a tech camera.

Hopefully you can work with a dealer and try out several of the afore mentioned backs with your lenses.

Paul C
 

JeffK

Well-known member
Didn't see any comments about the achro backs from P1. So I'll add in my opinion - since that's about the only thing that's cheap when buying into this hobby.

I bought a used (from dealer) IQ260 Achromatic CCD. Long exposure limited to 2 minutes and no live view. My next choice was the IQ3100 Achromatic that was twice the price. So I went for the 260A since I didn't need the extra pixels for printing. And given the cost difference, I could easily take a shot, zone focus and check focus masking on the shot I just took. Slower workflow, but if I wanted fast, then I'd stick with my Sony A7 series.

You can see examples of camera setup, images and printing with a K6 custom printing workflow.

https://www.instagram.com/jeff_kew/
 
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Massive Si

Active member
The IQ350, adds a few newer features, but still no e shutter, which is a shame as all the other manufactures using this chip figured out a way to use the e shutter. ,


Paul C
Less about Phase One not being able to figure it out, and more about Phase One abandoning users in the hope they will jump up to an IQ4x

They deliberately chose not to keep value in the IQ3 50 by not implementing the ES software
 

MrSmith

Member
They deliberately chose not to keep value in the IQ3 50 by not implementing the ES software
I’m surprised some clever person hasn’t done a ‘magic lantern’ and hacked the firmware to unlock all the features P1 have blocked.
 

TheDude

Member
I'd also highly recommend Linhof & Studio UK as an amazing source for not only Linhof, but also Alpa, Cambo, Silvestri and Hasselblad digital equipment. I've had what I can only describe as amazing service and support from Linhof & Studio, even though I live all the way across the world in the South Pacific.
I have to second this although I live only across the Atlantic in Florida. Paula, proprietor of linhofstudio.com, is an exceptional competent and professional person.
She also has a mechanic who did some quite tricky custom jobs for me.
 
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TheDude

Member
if I were in your position and wetting my feet now, I'd think seriously about waiting for the new Hasselblad V digital back and pairing it with a Cambo Actus. I love my Techno – mostly for idiosyncratic reasons
I think, this is an excellent recommendation.

I use a Linhof Techno in combination with the Hasselblad CVF-50c (Mark I) digital back. The only real drawback of the Techno is that it is rather heavy (and expensive).
I expect the Mark II of the CVF-50c to have a much better live-view and also electronic shutter.
 
Hey Ed, I'm in Norfolk.
I have a WRS1250, a Phase IQ260, with a Schneider 60XL and Rodenstock 40 and 28 lenses. You are welcome to come down and try it out, get a feel for how it might work for you. If you have your 55 on a Cambo mount, you can see how it would work with stitching on the IQ260. I've had excellent results with maximum fall/shift (ie. 25mm fall, 20 shift L/R) using the 60XL which has a 125mm image circle.
 
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