FUJIFILM GFX 50R question

[rdeloe]

I can thoroughly recommend the 50R, we use it with the 32-64 and the 100-200 zooms. I love it, it's light enough yet the image quality is fantastic. The zooms are top notch.

I spent 32 days with it in Japan last year - carrying it every day and I couldn't have found a better camera. At its current price you can't pass it by. Ask Rob about the bag his setup is in - you need one of those too!!

Here's the bag Mike mentioned. I got the idea from him and built an insert for my setup. Pics and description: https://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium...ks/67733-backpack-help-please.html#post810506

 

[rdeloe]

Nice! Can you please share more pics of the combo in action.

Sure. Here are a couple. It's a very versatile setup in terms of the lenses you can use. I am using Pentax 645 lenses mostly, but for some specialized tasks I use lenses like this Schneider Kreuznach Apo Digitar 80mm f/4. I even have a few enlarger lenses that work very well, in particular a Rodenstock Rodagon-WA 120mm f/5.6, which is a lovely lens and provides a ton of room for movements.

 

[Greg Haag]

Thank you for your insight Pete!

Greg,

It all depends on preferred focal lengths you prefer shooting with for that chip - I was very interested in the R but I didn't like the way the 100/2 and 250 +TC balanced on it, both my original S version and now the GFX100 are better body mounts for longer lenses. If you are going to use tripods - there is no issue.

You may not like hearing this but as an ex Leica S shooter - I don't think you will see much practical difference in IQ between your S and the Fuji R in terms of IQ as far as output from chip goes. Certainly the viewfinder experience in the S is a class above in terms of clarity. In order to see an appreciable jump - you may have to go to 100MP in Fuji. However there is no doubt in my mind that the R will give as good IQ as your S at a lower per lens cost to play tariff - significantly lower, and you get the benefit of being able to use C1 if that is an issue for you.

As to weight issues - I feel no particular difference between any of the systems mentioned. What you might find is that the feel in hand of any Fuji is not Leica - this may or may not be an issue - I am quite sensitive to how something feels in hand and it is a big issue for me eg I am happy to be out of Leica M which feels heavy and clumsy to hold in my hand compared to SL/SL2 - and I can also get accurate focus every time with my fast M glass on an SL/SL2 - something which can't be said in all honesty (for me ) with M use - ironically the 21/24 lux|50 Noctilux and newer 75 and 90 Nocti's all balance better on an SL/SL2 body - but why bother when the APO Summicrons for L mount blow them all away - anyway I digress.

On a purely cost/benefit basis the R is an absolute bargain - compared to anything out there.

Pete

 

[Greg Haag]

Thank you Victor!

Aside from the posts above I can attest to the really high quality of the files which can easily be printed to 40 inches. Of course this depends on disciplines being used to acquire the shot but the potential is there. I think you'll be very happy with the obvious bargain price of the 50r. Have not shot with the 50mm but the 45, 63 and 110 are very good.....

All of this applies to my 50s but the 'R' is basically the same camera.

Just go for it.....

Cheers

Victor

 

[MGrayson]

Matt, my walk around camera is the Leica S, and I think I am ready for something lighter and more compact. I considered the Hasselblad X1D ll 50C, but price and inability to fit into my C1 workflow makes it an unlikely solution for me.

Greg,

The Fuji system isn’t as light as the X1D, but it’s lighter than the S, and works extremely well with C1.

Matt

 

[Greg Haag]

Thanks Matt! Yes, I like the compact aspect of the X1D but I prefer the price and vertical integration opportunity with the Fuji. The thought that if at some point I wanted to move away from the P1 back and into the GFX 100 or next gen of it and have the ability to swap glass between to 50 and 100 is appealing. Also, being able keep everything within C1 is a big plus.

Greg,

The Fuji system isn’t as light as the X1D, but it’s lighter than the S, and works extremely well with C1.

Matt

 

[TheDude]

It's a very versatile setup in terms of the lenses you can use. I am using Pentax 645 lenses mostly, but for some specialized tasks I use lenses like this Schneider Kreuznach Apo Digitar 80mm f/4. ...

Are you using any short focal length lenses?

I also looked with great interest and hope at the GFX 50R for use on my technical camera.
Unfortunately, with GFX adapter the required flange distance ruled out Digaron-S 23mm and 35mm - two critical focal length. (Digaron-W 32mm would have worked but I don't have that lens (yet)).

 

[rdeloe]

Are you using any short focal length lenses?

I also looked with great interest and hope at the GFX 50R for use on my technical camera.
Unfortunately, with GFX adapter the required flange distance ruled out Digaron-S 23mm and 35mm - two critical focal length. (Digaron-W 32mm would have worked but I don't have that lens (yet)).

The widest I'm using is 35mm and that's with a retrofocus medium format lens (SMC Pentax-A 645 35mm f/3.5). Pentax makes/made a 25mm 645 lens, but this lens doesn't have an aperture ring. The aperture can be controlled by an adapter, but I'd have to build a new lens board to use it because I don't have that adapter on my current board. Thankfully (for my wallet) I find 35mm to be wide enough, because the Pentax 645 25mm lens is both rare and very expensive.

Something else to keep in mind is lens cast. I did try the widest technical camera lens I could mount on my GFX 50R and hit infinity (Rodenstock Grandagon 55mm). Lens cast problems showed up as soon as I shifted even a few mm. I'm not willing to have to remember to shoot a second frame through translucent plastic and then combine them with lens cast correction software, so I didn't go any further with that lens. As I understand it, all symmetrical (or near symmetrical) lenses will have lens cast issues when shifted on a GFR 50R; that's not personal experience talking -- just what I've read from people who've tried.

 

[TheDude]

The widest I'm using is 35mm and that's with a retrofocus medium format lens ... Something else to keep in mind is lens cast. I did try the widest technical camera lens I could mount on my GFX 50R and hit infinity (Rodenstock Grandagon 55mm). Lens cast problems showed up as soon as I shifted even a few mm.

Thanks for replying.

The GFX 50R uses an older, front-illuminated sensor while the GFX 100 already uses a more modern, back-illuminated sensor. Lens cast is apparently a no-issue for back-illuminated sensor. I was hoping for/holding out for a GFX 100R (or bite the bullet and get the current GFX 100).

 

[rdeloe]

Thanks for replying.

The GFX 50R uses an older, front-illuminated sensor while the GFX 100 already uses a more modern, back-illuminated sensor. Lens cast is apparently a no-issue for back-illuminated sensor. I was hoping for/holding out for a GFX 100R (or bite the bullet and get the current GFX 100).

I read that somewhere too. That's definitely good news.

Perhaps fortunately (again, for the wallet!) I can't use a GFX 100 on my VX23D setup because of that big grip. If Fuji ever puts out a successor to the GFX 50R, I sincerely hope they'll keep the grip the way it is in the 50R. The trend definitely seems to be to bigger grips with each version (unfortunately for people using them like I do).

The FFD of the GFX system may make this all beside the point though for me. The modern wide angle tech camera lenses tend to have large rear element groups that won't work with a camera that has such a long FFD. For instance, I would get a lot of use out of a Rodenstock 40mm f/4 HR Digaron-W Lens, but according to my calculations the rear of the lens would be well inside the GFX sensor cavity if it could fit, which it can't because of the 56mm rear diameter of the rear lens group.

 

[TheDude]

Rodenstock 40mm f/4 HR Digaron-W Lens, but according to my calculations the rear of the lens would be well inside the GFX sensor cavity.

I checked the Rodenstock brochure. The flange focal distance of the Digaron-W 40mm is stated to be 69.5 mm. (Same for the Digaron-W 32mm)
Linhof states that its GFX adapter will take 50mm of the flange focal distance.
Assuming all GFX adapters require the same dimensions as the Linhof GFX adapter, would still have nearly 20mm bellow for any tilt-shift or stitching. Not a lot but maybe enough.
Using a recessed lens board also would give more bellow space.

 

[rdeloe]

I checked the Rodenstock brochure. The flange focal distance of the Digaron-W 40mm is stated to be 69.5 mm. (Same for the Digaron-W 32mm)
Linhof states that its GFX adapter will take 50mm of the flange focal distance.
Assuming all GFX adapters require the same dimensions as the Linhof GFX adapter, would still have nearly 20mm bellow for any tilt-shift or stitching. Not a lot but maybe enough.
Using a recessed lens board also would give more bellow space.

I'm using the same numbers. The problem in my case is the shape and position of the standards and the lens board design I'm using.

Here's a clip from my spreadsheet. Remember this is specifically for the Toyo VX23D using a Fuji GFX 50R with the camera board I built for this setup. It assumes I'm using the deepest Toyo lens board (recessed 27.5mm).

Bellows distance isn't the problem: there's lots to work with so I could have a full range of tilt, swing, rise/fall and shift. The deal breaker on my setup is the number in red, "Air space between lens rear and camera board". When that number is negative, the lens is past the face of the camera board and inside the mount spacer and/or the camera itself.

I could be wrong, but I don't see how this lens would work on any GFX setup because to reach infinity it has to be the same distance from the sensor as mine. The rear part of the lens is simply very big at 44.3mm!

https://ibb.co/KxHKQHK

 

[TheDude]

I'm using the same numbers. The problem in my case is the shape and position of the standards and the lens board design I'm using.

Here's a clip from my spreadsheet. [/url]

Have a hard time to visualize from your spreadsheet.

Below is the drawing of the Techno Adapter for the Fuji GFX G-Mount from Linhof's website.




"Here at Fuji Adaption: X = 23.3 mm, Y = 26.7 mm, Z = 50.0 mm:


The flange focal distance of the Digaron-W 40mm is stated by Rodenstock to be 69.5 mm. (Same for the Digaron-W 32mm). This would leave about 20mm for the bellow when using a standard (non-recessed) lens board.

 

[rdeloe]

That's the problem with spreadsheets that aren't meant to be shared! Try it alongside this diagram.

The problem on my setup is the value labelled "(i)" in the spreadsheet and this diagram. To reach infinity on a GFX 50R mounted to my Toyo, the rear of the lens, the part labelled (c), goes past the camera board (the green bar labelled (g), and is inside the camera. I have lots of room between the rear of the lens board and the front of the camera board (j).

https://ibb.co/DVJLWkr

 

[TheDude]

I have lots of room between the rear of the lens board and the front of the camera board (j)

If (j) is 20mm then you should be able to focus at infinity.

 

[Alan]

This site: https://www.laszlopusztai.net/2017/04/17/choosing-lenses-for-the-actus-g/
has some clear illustrations of the clearance issues.

 

[gurtch]

Hi Greg: there is a thread addressing the GFX 50R and 50mm lens combination here:
https://www.getdpi.com/forum/fuji/67947-fuji-gfx-50mm-lens-half-price.html
Dave in NJ

 

[rdeloe]

The thing is that the rear end of the lens is 44.3mm in length. When it's focused at infinity on my setup, distance (j) is 30.15mm. It won't come anything close to infinity on my camera unless the rear end is 14.15mm past the camera board (d), which puts it inside my camera. That would work if the rear lens barrel was narrow, but it's not; diameter is 56mm.

The widest tech camera lens I could get on this thing was the Grandagon 55/4. It was 3.75mm past the face of the camera board (so inside), but the rear barrel was only 27.5mm in diameter, so I could shift it a tiny bit. Unfortunately, the lens cast problem made it not worth the bother.

I sincerely hope your camera has a design that allows lenses like this to work for you. I'm out of luck.

If (j) is 20mm then you should be able to focus at infinity.

 

[Steve Hendrix]

The thing is that the rear end of the lens is 44.3mm in length. When it's focused at infinity on my setup, distance (j) is 30.15mm. It won't come anything close to infinity on my camera unless the rear end is 14.15mm past the camera board (d), which puts it inside my camera. That would work if the rear lens barrel was narrow, but it's not; diameter is 56mm.

The widest tech camera lens I could get on this thing was the Grandagon 55/4. It was 3.75mm past the face of the camera board (so inside), but the rear barrel was only 27.5mm in diameter, so I could shift it a tiny bit. Unfortunately, the lens cast problem made it not worth the bother.

I sincerely hope your camera has a design that allows lenses like this to work for you. I'm out of luck.

Yes, the 55mm is about as wide as you can get with a GFX body.

The nice thing about being a dealer is you have access to a lot of gear and can confirm any charts, formulas, etc, by grabbing the gear and seeing what it does.

No way that a 32HR lens focuses at infinity on a GFX body - not even on a Sony A7R. You can get about 5 inches in focus. But even then, that lens is backed all the way up against the sensor faceplate - yikes!


Steve Hendrix/CI

 

[TheDude]

The thing is that the rear end of the lens is 44.3mm in length. When it's focused at infinity on my setup, distance (j) is 30.15mm. It won't come anything close to infinity on my camera unless the rear end is 14.15mm past the camera board (d), which puts it inside my camera. That would work if the rear lens barrel was narrow, but it's not; diameter is 56mm.

Stupid me. Flange focal length may be 69.2mm but flange-to-lens-end is 46.9mm, this means that there is only 22mm free space behind the lens element. Linhof states that its GFX adapter will take 50mm of flange focal distance. Hence, the rear element has to fit about 28mm inside the GXF adapter for this to work.

Rear barrel diameter of the Digaron-W 32mm and 40mm is stated to be 56mm, Fujifilm G-mount inner diameter is stated to be 65mm. However, I don't know the thickness of the adapter which in effect reduces the diameter of the actual opening.