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Leica S3

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Let's see how well it focuses. And a good magnified live view would make up (for me!) for most of its competitors' advantages. After the S(007) OVF, I don't even leave the EVF attached to the GFX100.

M
 

dj may

Well-known member
Let's see how well it focuses. And a good magnified live view would make up (for me!) for most of its competitors' advantages. After the S(007) OVF, I don't even leave the EVF attached to the GFX100.

M
Magnified live view is there. See my review
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Magnified live view is there. See my review
And it is on the S(007), as well. The lack of stabilization makes it hard to use hand-held. But good focus assists or very good AF could make up for that. The devil is in the details here, and the difference between an excellent tool and a frustrating one can be miniscule.

Thank you for your review! I will get to try one myself shortly, and I still have all my lenses :cool:.

Matt

PS. Magnified LV on the 007, even with the 180, isn't that bad (I just tried it). I think the only thing I would wish for is ultrasonic sensor cleaning. Maybe a slightly articulated screen.
 
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glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
As an original beta tester ...the S3 is a S 007 with a new sensor ..period . Long exposure has been allowed and a better color array utilized with the new sensor . As a foul weather, tripod based , landscape kit ..its hard to imagine a better alternative .

The concern has been there from the beginning ..have they improved the AF system . We know its a CDAF system so you can forget focus tracking ...only a PDAF system would be even close . That is not the issue ..what is required is precision . It must be able to nail the leading eye in a portrait with the 100/2 wide open .

As a critique of the mentioned test ...maybe get the eye in focus before publishing a magnified view ?

Having used a pre release version ..I can attest that the image quality is noticeably better than the SL2 ..which I own and think is fantastic . Color particularly skin tones are reproduced at an exceptional level .
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
As an original beta tester ...the S3 is a S 007 with a new sensor ..period . Long exposure has been allowed and a better color array utilized with the new sensor . As a foul weather, tripod based , landscape kit ..its hard to imagine a better alternative .

The concern has been there from the beginning ..have they improved the AF system . We know its a CDAF system so you can forget focus tracking ...only a PDAF system would be even close . That is not the issue ..what is required is precision . It must be able to nail the leading eye in a portrait with the 100/2 wide open .

As a critique of the mentioned test ...maybe get the eye in focus before publishing a magnified view ?

Having used a pre release version ..I can attest that the image quality is noticeably better than the SL2 ..which I own and think is fantastic . Color particularly skin tones are reproduced at an exceptional level .
I, too, was an early beta tester. My understanding was that the regular AF was PDAF, but live view AF was CDAF only. AF on the 007 was usually accurate enough, but the S3 needed to match or better that. I assume and hope that that has been achieved.

Matt
 

GMB

Active member
So here’s the question to the Beta testers: I have been an early adopter of the S system. S2 and then S006. I skipped the 007. Now stay with the 006, get a 007 (used or new; some new still on offer) or take the plunge for the S3. If money were no object, the choice seems clear. But it IS a lot of money. And the 007 could be haves for about 7-8k € whereas the list prouder the S3 is 18.6 k €. The limiting factor of the 006 is for me the ISO performance, i.e., that I need a tripod in bad light. The 007 certainly is better. But how much better is the S3?

I don’t need the extra resolution but then again, having is better than needing.
 

John_McMaster

Active member
The beta S3 was several stops better than the S(007), 12.500 ISO was good and 25K ISO not too bad...





Both S3 beta @ 12.500 ISO with 45mm CS

john
 
Having used a pre release version ..I can attest that the image quality is noticeably better than the SL2 ..which I own and think is fantastic . Color particularly skin tones are reproduced at an exceptional level .
Roger, could you elaborate on this? And maybe as compared to the 007 too, if you know. Leica has presented a real conundrum to us. The only upgrade is the sensor. Question is, is it worth the high price Leica is asking?
 

tcdeveau

Well-known member
Hmmm so they did enable long exposure to a degree? Looks like longest shutter speed is "8 minutes (depending on ISO)"...that's definitely better than the 60 seconds I originally saw in the original rumored spec sheet.
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Roger, could you elaborate on this? And maybe as compared to the 007 too, if you know. Leica has presented a real conundrum to us. The only upgrade is the sensor. Question is, is it worth the high price Leica is asking?
Image Quality ...remember I had a pre release software . I was able to compare the S3 with the Panasonic S1R side by side . The image quality of the S3 was noticeably better (obviously the MF aesthetic etc was an advantage if you like soft roll off of bokeh ) . But the skin tones and the color was more pleasing closer to the S 006 CCD ...somewhat in between the S 006 and the S oo7 .

In fact the image aesthetic was the very best I have seen and exactly to my taste . Not as detailed as the IQ150 nor possible as saturated (color depth ) ...but for shooting people the best .

Since I have invested in all the S prime lenses ..its certainly worth it to me . You will notice the difference if you shoot people not so sure how much you will see it in landscape . The S007 was very very good when used without cropping for landscape .And the S006 is superb for people portraiture etc IF you can manage the light and work with base ISO .
 
Image Quality ...remember I had a pre release software . I was able to compare the S3 with the Panasonic S1R side by side . The image quality of the S3 was noticeably better (obviously the MF aesthetic etc was an advantage if you like soft roll off of bokeh ) . But the skin tones and the color was more pleasing closer to the S 006 CCD ...somewhat in between the S 006 and the S oo7 .

In fact the image aesthetic was the very best I have seen and exactly to my taste . Not as detailed as the IQ150 nor possible as saturated (color depth ) ...but for shooting people the best .

Since I have invested in all the S prime lenses ..its certainly worth it to me . You will notice the difference if you shoot people not so sure how much you will see it in landscape . The S007 was very very good when used without cropping for landscape .And the S006 is superb for people portraiture etc IF you can manage the light and work with base ISO .
I was afraid you we’re going to say that.
 
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fotophil

Member
The S007 had a monochrome histogram which prevented observing color channel clipping. Despite numerous requests the factory refused to provide a color histogram because they thought that it was unnecessary! Too bad the Leica Designers are so ignorant of basic photography skills. Iwonder if the new S3 has a color histogram?
 

Photon42

Well-known member
As an original beta tester ...the S3 is a S 007 with a new sensor ..period . Long exposure has been allowed and a better color array utilized with the new sensor . As a foul weather, tripod based , landscape kit ..its hard to imagine a better alternative .

The concern has been there from the beginning ..have they improved the AF system . We know its a CDAF system so you can forget focus tracking ...only a PDAF system would be even close . That is not the issue ..what is required is precision . It must be able to nail the leading eye in a portrait with the 100/2 wide open .

As a critique of the mentioned test ...maybe get the eye in focus before publishing a magnified view ?

Having used a pre release version ..I can attest that the image quality is noticeably better than the SL2 ..which I own and think is fantastic . Color particularly skin tones are reproduced at an exceptional level .
The S has CDAF when using the optical viewfinder and PDAF when using the live view screen. That is also the reason why adapted Contax and H lenses do not autofocus with live view on.
 

Photon42

Well-known member
sure ir is :banghead::banghead:

PDAF -> optical finder
CDAF -> EVF

it is just one letter :facesmack::grin:
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
sure ir is :banghead::banghead:

PDAF -> optical finder
CDAF -> EVF

it is just one letter :facesmack::grin:
I am sure my ignorance resulted in a loss of intent . The technology used is not important ..its the results obtained . Is the AF in the S3 improved in any major way form the S007 ? I think not and hope to be wrong .

The Leica S has been challenged since the beginning with a single central focus point ...a large circle ...too large to pin point focus on say an eye . Easily fooled by any higher contrast items in the focus area . Those of us that have used the S since the S2 ...have learned the work around is to place the circle so that the eye is the highest point of contrast AND to often fine tune using manual focus .

Not unlike a Leica M RF camera ...you develop a technique over time and can often forget about this limitation .

I see no reason to believe that the AF is any different or better than the S 007 .....it is poor by companion to any camera I have or might consider ...

It is not fast

It is not precise

It is easily fooled

Focus tracking is a joke ..it isn t usable

If you want to use the S on a tripod and can work with LV its excellent ...you can get a magnified view and easily see your focus point . I ve had zero issues using a Leica S for landscape .

To use an S effectively without LV.........you must have excellent eyesight and be able to discern where the focus point is in the OVF .

I am looking for any insight that might show that Leica has improved the AF in the S3 from the initial prototypes (which was the same as the S 007 ) .

I ve seen not a word about AF improvements in any of the official news releases .
 
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