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Thread: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

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    Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Hi there

    I see very little discussion on the XT. Lorenzo likes it. But then who else?

    Is this thing selling at all? How do people fare wit limited usage of IC (eg in case of 70HR, but also 32HR!) and are some considering switching?

    I tried one, but the high price of lenses - 50 4.0 rumoured to be 10K EUR like the 32!! plus the limited shift and inability to use it with my ALPA keeps me from investing. I don't yet have a 32, and I'd like to have one, but then I could not use it on my Alpa and the little XT doesn't use its full potential. Same goes for the tele 138 - would love to have a compact setup AND option to stich ...

    So curious to hear what other forum members think about it and whether people are switching.

    I think Drew Altdoerffer (cheers if you see this) missed the spot a bit with just 12mm stitch. Maybe it was to not compete with the compact Cambo itself, but I just wish they would do an XT with Alpa mount, license out the connection plate so that other tech cam manufacturers can become cable free an integrate half press shutter mechanisms or just announce an XT XL with tilt and 22.5 shift in all directions ...

    Many thanks
    Paul

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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Id love to like it but

    For me, the point of using a tech cam is the movements. I like to have 1/2 the short dimension of the sensor as available shift. 12mm shift is enough for a 35mm sensor, not for MF.

    Some will say the lenses dont have the image circle for that much shift. Some will say you can shift 12mm then crop into a 150MP file for the same effect. Sure you can, but I wont be paying extra for that privilege.

    The metadata and modern shutter would be nice, but they are secondary to the primary function of the tech cam (movements) for me.

    Others will have different priorities!
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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    We've sold more XT kits than all-other-tech-cameras-combined since the XT launch, by a solid margin.

    Frequently they had previously looked at tech cameras but found previous options too slow or cumbersome to use.

    By definition those who already owned a tech camera didn't find the speed/ease/simplicity of previous tech cameras to be a problem, so it's unsurprising the XT has less appeal to them. Though the X-Shutter may.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    I've used an Arca RM3 and Factum with Phase back for the past 7 years. Rode 32, 40, 70, 90 and SK 120 ASP. Original Phase back IQ180, now IQ4150

    I've also spent some time on location with the XT. These cameras are comparable in size and weight and functionality to each other as well as the offerings of Alpa and Cambo.

    The XT adds recorded shifts, the modern CF leaf shutter, and a hard shutter button release. How important are these? Only you can answer that question. If I were just getting into a Tech camera system I might be inclined to start with the XT. Being heavily invested in Arca gear that is modular beyond my R camera, the range of lenses I have that are not even available for the XT and in consideration of the cost to upgrade to the XT (substantial) I'm happy with where I am. YMMV

    Robert B

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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    We've sold more XT kits than all-other-tech-cameras-combined since the XT launch, by a solid margin.

    Frequently they had previously looked at tech cameras but found previous options too slow or cumbersome to use.

    By definition those who already owned a tech camera didn't find the speed/ease/simplicity of previous tech cameras to be a problem, so it's unsurprising the XT has less appeal to them. Though the X-Shutter may.
    Ok, thank you, but what does that mean actually? 30 XTs sold va 4 Alpas and 2 Cambos vs a population of 300 Alpas, 150 Cambos? How many existing users actually convert? Clearly a new product sells well, but to really upend the market XT would need to convert?

    Many thanks
    Paul
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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Quote Originally Posted by RLB View Post
    I've used an Arca RM3 and Factum with Phase back for the past 7 years. Rode 32, 40, 70, 90 and SK 120 ASP. Original Phase back IQ180, now IQ4150

    I've also spent some time on location with the XT. These cameras are comparable in size and weight and functionality to each other as well as the offerings of Alpa and Cambo.

    The XT adds recorded shifts, the modern CF leaf shutter, and a hard shutter button release. How important are these? Only you can answer that question. If I were just getting into a Tech camera system I might be inclined to start with the XT. Being heavily invested in Arca gear that is modular beyond my R camera, the range of lenses I have that are not even available for the XT and in consideration of the cost to upgrade to the XT (substantial) I'm happy with where I am. YMMV

    Robert B
    My theory is that the vast majority of tech cam users think that way. The lack of shift and bad interoperability between existing systems make it less appealing than it could be. Imagine an XT one could get with any mount. Like an Alpa XT or an Arca XT ...
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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    Clearly a new product sells well, but to really upend the market XT would need to convert?
    The idea is not to sell an XT to every person that bought another tech camera in the past; that's a very small market; that will happen in some cases (a minority of our XT purchasers have migrated from other platforms), but it's not the primary aim.

    The idea is to sell XT to the (much much much larger) market of people who like quality, want movements, and never remotely considered traditional tech cameras.

    And it seems to be working.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post

    Frequently they had previously looked at tech cameras but found previous options too slow or cumbersome to use.

    X-Shutter may.
    By their very nature and design, all Tech and view cameras are inherently "slow" and "cumbersome", the XT included. This type of camera's specific capabilities (shifting, lens options, etc.) define why its the right tool for certain types of shooting and not for others.

    In a direct comparison between a "conventional" Tech camera (Factum or RM3di) and the XT, my working time and effort to achieve the same shot was really not much different.
    One still needs to use a tripod, focus, compose, shift, etc. If you want to work faster I suggest another tool: XF.


    Robert B

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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    The idea is not to sell an XT to every person that bought another tech camera in the past; that's a very small market; that will happen in some cases (a minority of our XT purchasers have migrated from other platforms), but it's not the primary aim.

    The idea is to sell XT to the (much much much larger) market of people who like quality, want movements, and never remotely considered traditional tech cameras.

    And it seems to be working.
    Interesting - a German dealer I know says it does not work at all. Guess the US market is different ... and I must concur with Robert on the XT vs. other manufacturer setup usability. I think it is just marketing to say it is easier as you still need a tripod at 5.6, iso 100 and normal light and using a back with say an STC is not rocket science. Turn back on, press live view, finger press shutter circle icon on back. Also using an Alpa Max is not rocket science.

    The ease of use is one of the key marketing messages devised by sales at launch. I loved the compactness of the body and the integrated rotation, but just found the shift of 12mm unfortunate. Interested to see where the system goes ...

    And the initial reason for asking the question of this thread is that there are not many known users of the system here in the forum ...? At least a lot less reviews / impressions, etc. than one could expect for a P1 product launch.

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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Quote Originally Posted by RLB View Post
    In a direct comparison between a "conventional" Tech camera (Factum or RM3di) and the XT, my working time and effort to achieve the same shot was really not much different.
    I think this speaks more to your capabilities and technical proficiency as an Arca user. I agree that for me the difference is rather modest. But having demo'd the Arca R series (my personal favorite traditional tech cam, and the one with the most technical prowess and precision in my opinion) to hundreds of photographers, I can tell you that 9 out of 10 professionals or serious hobbyists find the Arca undesirably complex in both physical and digital workflow. In contrast, most of the people I show the XT to "get it" pretty darn quick.

    Quote Originally Posted by RLB View Post
    One still needs to use a tripod, focus, compose, shift, etc. If you want to work faster I suggest another tool: XF.
    I think this comment again reflects the differing ways you might view the XT if you already own and love a traditional tech camera vs the way you might view an XT if you've never even heard of "tech cameras". That's totally fair and valid.

    Indeed many of our XT purchasers are shooting hand held at least a meaningful amount of the time (some, exclusively). I know one who exclusively uses hyperfocal and rarely shifts. He just wanted something with the image quality of an IQ4 XF 45LS BR, but in a smaller and lighter package that still handled like a "normal camera" (his words) and autofocus was not important to his use case.


    From here.

    I'm not here to convince you or anyone else that an XT is right for you; in fact my posts quite clearly indicate that for most people who already own a tech camera it's likely not (though the X-Shutter might be). I'm only trying to explain that it's a different kind of shooter who is buying the XT – one for whom traditional tech cameras were not a good fit. So if a traditional tech camera is a good fit for you, it will be hard to see things through those eyes.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    Interesting - a German dealer I know says it does not work at all. Guess the US market is different ...
    I suspect there is enormous variation by country/region and by dealer. I can only speak for the USA where DT is the largest dealer.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    Interesting - a German dealer I know says it does not work at all. Guess the US market is different ... and I must concur with Robert on the XT vs. other manufacturer setup usability. I think it is just marketing to say it is easier as you still need a tripod at 5.6, iso 100 and normal light and using a back with say an STC is not rocket science. Turn back on, press live view, finger press shutter circle icon on back. Also using an Alpa Max is not rocket science.

    The ease of use is one of the key marketing messages devised by sales at launch. I loved the compactness of the body and the integrated rotation, but just found the shift of 12mm unfortunate. Interested to see where the system goes ...

    And the initial reason for asking the question of this thread is that there are not many known users of the system here in the forum ...? At least a lot less reviews / impressions, etc. than one could expect for a P1 product launch.

    Hi Paul - not sure what that German dealer meant by "does not work at all". But in the USA, there are numerous dealers, and each dealer has a unique perspective. We don't speak for everyone, nor does any one dealer speak for us.

    But I will say that, yes, the XT camera has sold well, and while Cambo/Alpa/Arca sales have remained steady, the XT is the new kid on the block, and it has inspired buyers in greater numbers, as a result.

    Regarding the usability question - I actually find it is not so much the time that you add up, it is the diversion of focus, that is the problem for me (compared to using a copal shutter lens or even an aperture mount lens). I hate the idea of having to be pay attention to the front of the camera, as well as the back of the camera (for changing shutter speeds, aperture, etc.). I find it distracting and diverting from what I am focusing on in front of the lens, and the XT with X shutter relieves me of that.

    Which gets back to one of my original points, which is that the X Shutter itself is the really big development. This shutter will make its way to other tech camera manufacturers, like Alpa/Arca/Cambo. What the XT camera itself really brings is integration, meaning the ability to take advantage of the X shutter without cabling. And add to that the small size (it is the smallest modern XY shift camera in existence). For some, this trumps the extra shift capability of a traditional tech camera. A quote from one of my XT clients:

    "As a whole I love the system. Perfectly placed in between a pure tech camera and XF for me."


    If you need more shift and size/weight is not as much a concern, then you have the option of using the X Shutter with an existing tech camera system at some point, presumably later this year.

    The price of the system itself is not outrageous compared to offerings from Alpa/Cambo, for instance. The lenses cost a bit more, but that cost accounts for the X Shutter. And some more than less - the 32HR is only about $1,500 higher an aperture mounted Cambo lens. To me, that's a comparative bargain. Yes, I would pay $1,500 more for a 32HR with an X shutter. Every day. The 70HR has a bigger gap - it is about $3,500 more - but again, the cost of the X Shutter has to be taken into account. There are more expensive XY shift bodies on the market than the XT, so ... I think the entire tech camera category is a relatively expensive category, and yes, the XT system is nearer the top of that than the bottom.


    Steve Hendrix/CI
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Authorized Reseller Digital Cam: Phase One | Fuji | Leica | Hasselblad
    Authorized Reseller TechCam: Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar

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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post
    Hi Paul - not sure what that German dealer meant by "does not work at all". But in the USA, there are numerous dealers, and each dealer has a unique perspective. We don't speak for everyone, nor does any one dealer speak for us.

    But I will say that, yes, the XT camera has sold well, and while Cambo/Alpa/Arca sales have remained steady, the XT is the new kid on the block, and it has inspired buyers in greater numbers, as a result.

    Regarding the usability question - I actually find it is not so much the time that you add up, it is the diversion of focus, that is the problem for me (compared to using a copal shutter lens or even an aperture mount lens). I hate the idea of having to be pay attention to the front of the camera, as well as the back of the camera (for changing shutter speeds, aperture, etc.). I find it distracting and diverting from what I am focusing on in front of the lens, and the XT with X shutter relieves me of that.

    Which gets back to one of my original points, which is that the X Shutter itself is the really big development. This shutter will make its way to other tech camera manufacturers, like Alpa/Arca/Cambo. What the XT camera itself really brings is integration, meaning the ability to take advantage of the X shutter without cabling. And add to that the small size (it is the smallest modern XY shift camera in existence). For some, this trumps the extra shift capability of a traditional tech camera. A quote from one of my XT clients:

    "As a whole I love the system. Perfectly placed in between a pure tech camera and XF for me."


    If you need more shift and size/weight is not as much a concern, then you have the option of using the X Shutter with an existing tech camera system at some point, presumably later this year.

    The price of the system itself is not outrageous compared to offerings from Alpa/Cambo, for instance. The lenses cost a bit more, but that cost accounts for the X Shutter. And some more than less - the 32HR is only about $1,500 higher an aperture mounted Cambo lens. To me, that's a comparative bargain. Yes, I would pay $1,500 more for a 32HR with an X shutter. Every day. The 70HR has a bigger gap - it is about $3,500 more - but again, the cost of the X Shutter has to be taken into account. There are more expensive XY shift bodies on the market than the XT, so ... I think the entire tech camera category is a relatively expensive category, and yes, the XT system is nearer the top of that than the bottom.


    Steve Hendrix/CI
    The meaning of the statement was more like it does not sell too well. I think it has also to do with the fact that he caters more to working pros than enthusiasts and maybe the crisis plays a role as well. I like the body, it is just that I would love to be able to use the XT lenses on an Alpa body and not only on an XT body. It is a shame to own a 90mm XT and say not be able to use one's ALPA Plus. Sure, you can use a Cambo, but then you have like three systems etc. I would just appreciate some more communication from P1 on whether there will be an XT XL and how exactly the interoperability will work - eg shutter release available somehow still once the IQ4 is connected via cable to an XT lens, etc.

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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    So if a traditional tech camera is a good fit for you, it will be hard to see things through those eyes.
    Yes, you are right here probably. I then don't get why P1 doesn't go full on and announces an XT XL with tilt and shift 20+. I'd immediately switch to P1 ...! Just saying a 90mm XT for just 12mm shift is really sad!

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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Also wonder why there aren't too many user experience posts on the XT ...

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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    Also wonder why there aren't too many user experience posts on the XT ...
    Maybe they are spending their time using it instead of writing about it here.

    I know a lot of people that make tons of images and never spend time in fora. Who knows?
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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    As has been suggested, those who have used view and tech cameras for years and are extremely comfortable and already well vested in the lenses they want and need are far less likely the target market compared to someone who is seeing a tech camera for the first time and has no comparable system at all.

    The XT offers some advantages and some disadvantages over other tech cameras, all of which have been mentioned in this thread. For the heavily vested user like myself, the cost to switch sysems and limited lens offering far outweighs the benefits recorded shifts, shutter release on body and the X-shutter. Down the road who knows?

    Robert B
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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    As many of you have pointed out there really is no reason to switch from your current tech set up to the XT. I gave up my entire tech cam kit a few years ago because the new IQ3 didnt work very well with my wide lenses and I switched to using the 35mm PC lenses for all of my commercial location work. I still used the Phase in the studio and upgraded to the IQ4 which is a completely different animal compared to the IQ3. With landscape photography the 35mm cameras (D850 and r7 iv) never really did it for me and I would break my back dragging around the Phase XF camera and lenses because the IQ4 image quality is just so much better.

    I missed using my tech cam and wanted to get more use out of the IQ4. Along comes the XT that I could fit in a small backpack. No LCC worries, integrated shutter, frame averaging, and less of a need for the ND filter kit. Yes, sometimes I could use a little more shift and Im still waiting on Capture Pilot. Aside from a few quirks I love using the XT. Im shooting more landscape photography than I have in the past because its so easy.

    Roger Mastroianni

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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    I am German and currently also live here. That the XT did not sell well in Germany is due to the fact that only KIT's were for sale here.

    But for me as the owner of various Cambo's, an IQ4150 and IQ4150 Achromat, this is absolutely uninteresting. Furthermore, there is still no cable which a new XT lens e.g. can control on a Cambo via IQ4 and I can not be 100% sure that this cable will even exist.

    So it makes no sense to me at the moment to invest in an XT system and I don't find it surprising that the XT should sell badly here in Germany.

    For me personally, I see the actual profit in the new shutter.

    Greetings Gerd

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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerd View Post
    I am German and currently also live here. That the XT did not sell well in Germany is due to the fact that only KIT's were for sale here.
    That's an interesting note about the sales channel there; as I said, I expect variation by the region and by the dealer. For clarity, we (DT) are glad to sell any bit or piece separately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerd View Post
    Furthermore, there is still no cable which a new XT lens e.g. can control on a Cambo via IQ4 and I can not be 100% sure that this cable will even exist.
    It's not just "a cable" but also the making of the firmware to allow that external control (and the testing thereof).

    I guess in a philosophical sense one can't be 100% sure of anything. However, P1 has publicly committed to making that option available, is actively working on it at the moment, and has every sales and marketing incentive to do so; from a realpolitik point of view the most valuable thing is not selling XT bodies so much as selling IQ4 backs, and any tech camera owner using an X-Shutter by definition must already own or must buy an IQ4.

    So, yes, that cable (and the firmware/testing that make the cable work) will come.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerd View Post
    So it makes no sense to me at the moment to invest in an XT system... For me personally, I see the actual profit in the new shutter.
    That sounds right. Looking forward to what you think/decide when the X-Shutter-on-other-tech-cameras becomes an option. Last it was publicly discussed P1 was on schedule "summer 2020" but I have not asked about this since COVID, and wouldn't be surprised if this situation delays that somewhat.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerd View Post
    I am German and currently also live here. That the XT did not sell well in Germany is due to the fact that only KIT's were for sale here.

    But for me as the owner of various Cambo's, an IQ4150 and IQ4150 Achromat, this is absolutely uninteresting. Furthermore, there is still no cable which a new XT lens e.g. can control on a Cambo via IQ4 and I can not be 100% sure that this cable will even exist.

    So it makes no sense to me at the moment to invest in an XT system and I don't find it surprising that the XT should sell badly here in Germany.

    For me personally, I see the actual profit in the new shutter.

    Greetings Gerd
    There will be (or actually is) such a cable. It's not without good reasons that the XT is compatible with Cambo lens plates. To make it work, an update to the back's firmware need to be made. We may have to wait a bit for that - the world seems to turn slower these days - but it will come. Thus you'll be able to use your WRS alongside the XT whenever more shift is needed. As there isn't any electronics in the WRS, there obviously won't be any data transfer. But still the X-shutter is a joy to use, reliable and more precise than a Copal can ever be.

    BTW: To use the lens panels safely and avoid damage to the connectors, the WRS body needs to come back to us, to machine a small cavity into it.
    Cambo Photographic Industry BV - www.cambo.com
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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Good to know- does that mean the Cambo WRS camera would have to be sent back to Europe for this machining?
    I may be interested in the Rodenstock telephoto XT lens coming out this year. Could you tell us what focal length it will have?

    Thanks,

    John

    Quote Originally Posted by Cambo View Post
    There will be (or actually is) such a cable. It's not without good reasons that the XT is compatible with Cambo lens plates. To make it work, an update to the back's firmware need to be made. We may have to wait a bit for that - the world seems to turn slower these days - but it will come. Thus you'll be able to use your WRS alongside the XT whenever more shift is needed. As there isn't any electronics in the WRS, there obviously won't be any data transfer. But still the X-shutter is a joy to use, reliable and more precise than a Copal can ever be.

    BTW: To use the lens panels safely and avoid damage to the connectors, the WRS body needs to come back to us, to machine a small cavity into it.

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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    I'm fortunate to own an XT, IQ4-150 achromatic back, and the 32mm Rodenstock lens.

    What I like about the XT is the ease in changing the orientation from landscape to portrait without having to remove the back, having everything I need except for the focusing ring shown on the display, having the exposure meter and the histogram on the display, and being able to change the shutter speed and aperture using the hard buttons to the side of the display. Frame averaging with the XT is truly amazing and effortless. Having nearly all of the workflow at the display is a wonderful time saver. Lastly, the camera is so easy to use. I'm very happy with my gear.

    This past week I was shooting seascapes along the California (USA) coastline. The camera was simply wonderful. I'll be back out shooting as soon as several favorite locations open again.

    As for how many degrees of up/down and sideways movement, tilt/shift, cables, and on and on, I'm not in need of any of these features. I'm far too busy shooting instead of wondering about "what if" or "does the camera have some feature".

    Go out and shoot, even if it is using the camera in your cellular telephone. Have fun!

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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    [QUOTE=Gerd;817630]I am German and currently also live here. That the XT did not sell well in Germany is due to the fact that only KIT's were for sale here.

    Wait a minute, i also was told you have to buy it as a KIT, when i was at a demo
    in Munich last year but i thought this was a global thing.
    And now Doug is telling us this isnt the case in US?
    Phase One, would you please stop treating your German Customers
    like complete idiots, please?
    Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked for this post

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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Phase One might want to stop treating all of their customers outside of the US like complete idiots, to be honest.

    I'll qualify that by saying I live in a small market country, but it's no better nearby in Australia. Last time I tried I couldn't even order a battery for my Credo 60 as the distributor only ordered them on a per customer basis once a year...

    I asked how much to send my back in for a service to check it's in alignment etc., and they said they couldn't tell me as they'd never done it before and the insurance cost to send it out would be too high – unless they were sending a ton of other gear back with it.

    Don't mean to derail the thread, as the XT does look like an interesting camera. 12mm is very marginal for me, so it'd be a no go. It'd need to have 18mm minimum shift on both axis for it to be viable. I could give up tilt, and could make do with the RS HR40mm and HR70mm lenses plus a remounted RS 55mm or SK60mm XL – for panoramic stitching 1:2 with a good amount of rise / fall.

    It's all academic though as unless I start pooping gold bricks it ain't just ain't gonna find its way into my bag.

    Dreams are free though.

    [QUOTE=Phase V;817703]
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerd View Post
    I am German and currently also live here. That the XT did not sell well in Germany is due to the fact that only KIT's were for sale here.

    Wait a minute, i also was told you have to buy it as a KIT, when i was at a demo
    in Munich last year but i thought this was a global thing.
    And now Doug is telling us this isnt the case in US?
    Phase One, would you please stop treating your German Customers
    like complete idiots, please?

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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    [QUOTE=Smoothjazz;817671]Good to know- does that mean the Cambo WRS camera would have to be sent back to Europe for this machining?
    I may be interested in the Rodenstock telephoto XT lens coming out this year. Could you tell us what focal length it will have?

    Indeed, that needs to be done here in The Netherlands.
    The second question can be answered by Phase One only.
    Cambo Photographic Industry BV - www.cambo.com

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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    [QUOTE=Phase V;817703]
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerd View Post
    I am German and currently also live here. That the XT did not sell well in Germany is due to the fact that only KIT's were for sale here.

    Wait a minute, i also was told you have to buy it as a KIT, when i was at a demo
    in Munich last year but i thought this was a global thing.
    And now Doug is telling us this isnt the case in US?
    Phase One, would you please stop treating your German Customers
    like complete idiots, please?
    Since the day the XT was announced it was available as a Bundled Kit w/IQ4-xxx or individually as listed below (I included the recently announced 50mm lens to the listing).

    That is very surprising that other dealers across the world were only offering bundles.
    Yes, Phase One prioritized orders for Bundled Kits first and then XT standalone systems.
    There were and still may be a wait the systems, but from what I have been told the hold up has been Rodenstock (which we are all have become accustomed to across all the tech cam brands from time to time).

    Good news is that availability/wait times for stand alone systems and lenses is getting better (at from what we are experiencing a DT) and from time to time we may even have a system on the shelf that a customer may have not been able to accept delivery at that time which we make available for quick delivery.


    Phase One XT/IQ Kit Options as listed the pricelist

    XT IQ4 150MP including 23mm lens $56,990.00
    XT IQ4 150MP including 32mm lens $56,990.00
    XT IQ4 150MP including 70mm lens $56,990.00
    XT IQ4 100MP Trichromatic including 23mm lens $52,990.00
    XT IQ4 100MP Trichromatic including 32mm lens $52,990.00
    XT IQ4 100MP Trichromatic including 70mm lens $52,990.00


    XT Camera Body $5,990.00
    XT - Rodenstock HR Digaron - S 23mm f/5,6 $11,990.00
    XT - Rodenstock HR Digaron - W 32mm f/4 $11,990.00
    XT - Rodenstock HR Digaron - W 50mm f/4 $11,990.00
    XT - Rodenstock HR Digaron - W 70mm f/5,6 $8,990.00

    If you may be interested in an XT please reach out via email or pm and we can discuss what may be available for quick ship or what the estimated wait may be.

    Also if you would like to hear first hand from at least 3 photographers that have experienced using the Phase One XT (that also have been users of other tech cameras as well) two have been featured in our past Project Lemonade Webinars, Adam Elstien and Jeffrey Totaro and coming up on May 12 is Peter Steinhaur who will be discussing his experience shooting with the XT/IQ4 (he has been a P1/Cambo user for years) as well as using his IQ4-150 for films scanning. You can view the archives and register for Tuesdays webinar here .

    Lance
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
    direct/cell:610-496-5586 office:877-367-8537x224
    http://www.digitaltransitions.com email:[email protected]

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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    I'm always amazed anyone would drop fifty grand or more on this foofaraw

    To quite Thomas Tusser
    "A fool and his money are soon parted."

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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    I'm always amazed anyone would drop fifty grand or more on this foofaraw

    To quite Thomas Tusser
    "A fool and his money are soon parted."
    You always make that very clear indeed.

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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    I'm always amazed anyone would drop fifty grand or more on this foofaraw

    To quite Thomas Tusser
    "A fool and his money are soon parted."
    Aha, the man with reduced eyesight is here again ...

    Greetings Gerd
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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    [QUOTE=Phase V;817703]
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerd View Post
    I am German and currently also live here. That the XT did not sell well in Germany is due to the fact that only KIT's were for sale here.

    Wait a minute, i also was told you have to buy it as a KIT, when i was at a demo
    in Munich last year but i thought this was a global thing.
    And now Doug is telling us this isnt the case in US?
    Phase One, would you please stop treating your German Customers
    like complete idiots, please?
    Thank you for saying it. I didn't want to say it so clearly ...

    Greetings Gerd

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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    To quite Thomas Tusser
    "A fool and his money are soon parted."
    Could I borrow $20 Doug ?

    Jim
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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    To quite Thomas Tusser
    "A fool and his money are soon parted."
    Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
    Benjamin Franklin
    My Pics
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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    There are some pro architectural photogs I follow on instagram that seem happy with it. I imagine the X-shutter was a big deal for their use with strobes, and movement data embedded in the metadata probably helps with post workflow.

    As for lack of user insight here, as it's already been said, most folks here are happy with their existing non-XT tech cam setups (myself included).

    Nice to have options and all that though. Looking forward to seeing more info about X-shutter pricing/availability on other lenses/systems when the time comes.

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    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Quote Originally Posted by tcdeveau View Post
    There are some pro architectural photogs I follow on instagram that seem happy with it. I imagine the X-shutter was a big deal for their use with strobes, and movement data embedded in the metadata probably helps with post workflow.

    As for lack of user insight here, as it's already been said, most folks here are happy with their existing non-XT tech cam setups (myself included).

    Nice to have options and all that though. Looking forward to seeing more info about X-shutter pricing/availability on other lenses/systems when the time comes.

    Also, the stated intent of Phase One to attarct new users to the tech camera segment could be a part of this equation. About 50% of my XT orders have come from users who have never owned a tech camera. And they are not participants on this forum.


    [QUOTE=Phase V;817703]
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerd View Post
    I am German and currently also live here. That the XT did not sell well in Germany is due to the fact that only KIT's were for sale here.

    Wait a minute, i also was told you have to buy it as a KIT, when i was at a demo
    in Munich last year but i thought this was a global thing.
    And now Doug is telling us this isnt the case in US?
    Phase One, would you please stop treating your German Customers
    like complete idiots, please?
    Sometimes the details matter. I generally believe that Phase One has relatively consistent global policies. It is true that they communicated to dealers that they would prioritize kit deliveries in the early stages. This has been the case with most of their recent product launches, nothing new here. Now, how a dealer communicates this to an end user is another matter. At launch, you could certainly order individual items, say a camera and a lens, but it was likely to take some time to arrive (longer than someone ordering a kit at the same time). This is what the dealer should have communicated.


    Steve Hendrix/CI
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Authorized Reseller Digital Cam: Phase One | Fuji | Leica | Hasselblad
    Authorized Reseller TechCam: Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar

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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    I see the XT as a bridge camera. Once the ES in the DB hits maturity, and we can get rid of the awkward electronic shutter in the lens, this would be pretty much perfect (or would be with +/- 20mm of rise/fall/shift).

    At the minute it all works, but seems a bit 'cobbled together'.

    That said, will we ever see a new DB - there's nothing new on the horizon from Sony, and still issues to be sorted with the IQ150 (almost 2 years after launch) - and P1 itself (the company) seems to be struggling with with its future trajectory.

    Jim

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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    Once the ES in the DB hits maturity
    A truly global shutter that is effectively instant (1/1000th of a second or faster), does not cause a loss of bit depth or an increase in noise, and appears on a medium format sensor (full frame 645 like P1 or 1.3 crop like X1D/GFX) is, by my estimation, still many years away. So, I agree with you fully, but we probably anticipate very different lengths of time for that "bridge".

    In fact, in the long arc of technology, a global shutter is likely just a "bridge" to a fully virtualized shutter and sensor, something I wrote about 12 years ago (though I think my writing style has sharpened somewhat during that time), and may well be common place in my daughter's lifetime. But the thing is, if you want to make art or commerce, you can't do it with future technology; we are all inexorably stuck in the present, and as Captain Picard wisely said "Live now! Make now always the most precious time. Now will never come again."


    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    At the minute it all works, but seems a bit 'cobbled together'.
    Out of curiosity, have you personally spent any meaningful time shooting with an XT? I could accept many criticisms about the XT (no tilt, not as much movement as some other tech cameras), but "cobbled together" is one of the last things I'd say about it, at least as regards the experience of having one in your hands and making images with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    P1 itself (the company) seems to be struggling with with its future trajectory.
    There's a recent two-hour interview with Lau, the Chief Visionary Officer (C-level R+D/product position) of Phase One on our Project lemonade archive you may find interesting. I am extraordinarily biased, but knowing the people in R+D, and having seen what they've done during the 12 years I've been doing this, I am very bullish on the future of Phase One.
    https://www.dtcommercialphoto.com/pr...nade-webinars/
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)



    To enable the use of XT lens panels, we had to put a smile on the WRS' face.
    Cambo Photographic Industry BV - www.cambo.com
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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cambo View Post


    To enable the use of XT lens panels, we had to put a smile on the WRS' face.

    I like it. She looks happier now.


    Steve Hendrix/CI
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Authorized Reseller Digital Cam: Phase One | Fuji | Leica | Hasselblad
    Authorized Reseller TechCam: Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar
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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Missing John Milich.

    He could have been the "US contact" for adding Cambo WRS "smiles"

    ken
    www.houseoflandscapes.com
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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    I'm always amazed anyone would drop fifty grand or more on this foofaraw

    To quite Thomas Tusser
    "A fool and his money are soon parted."
    Whoa. You still here, Doug? You're like the kid stuck watching the game enviously from the sidelines, wishing he could join in on the fun and play.

    It's not like you're sitting there all alone like the last kid that none of the guys wanted on their team. I know we chide ourselves about the cost of medium format digital, hence "the Inferno." But to be honest, medium format digital has never been so accessible to photographers as it is now.

    You're welcome to come play with us, Doug. Operators are standing by.

    --Dante

    p.s. I miss you
    Last edited by Dante Alighieri; 2 Weeks Ago at 13:07.
    "Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here."

    Coming soon: "The Devil's Workshop"---Medium Format Digital Photography Workshops
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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post

    I am very bullish on the future of Phase One.
    Sounds great. Now, where are those promised Feature set updates for my IQ4? The ones we've all been waiting on for years now. The features that have been on the IQ3 for years (as a minimum).

    Being an early adopter of the IQ4 (Dec 2018) part of the switch up decision was based on promises made by P1 regarding the "Infinity and Beyond Platform." However, I feel like I'm still sitting on the launch pad.

    P1 if your listening it would peachy if you'd throw more resources at taking this starship where you promised. The image quality of the IQ4 is fabulous...let's not forget about the functionality.

    Robert B
    Last edited by RLB; 2 Weeks Ago at 14:30.
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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    A gold star of the day goes to Robert B...... Couldn't have said it better.

    Cheers....

    Victor B
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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    I was at one time an early adaptor to anything P1. I'd buy into the latest greatest then wait for the promised features to be delivered. Then I woke up.

    I'm not bashing P1 as while I no longer use it I still believe the underlining product is good. I found I got tired of being a beta tester and stopped using P1 shortly after the new mirrorless medium format was released. I'd think hard about a P1 mirrorless but would wait several years before buying into one.

    Just a thought from a reformed P1 user.

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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    I was at one time an early adaptor to anything P1. I'd buy into the latest greatest then wait for the promised features to be delivered. Then I woke up.

    I'm not bashing P1 as while I no longer use it I still believe the underlining product is good. I found I got tired of being a beta tester and stopped using P1 shortly after the new mirrorless medium format was released. I'd think hard about a P1 mirrorless but would wait several years before buying into one.

    Just a thought from a reformed P1 user.
    Let me be very clear, I'm not bashing P1 either, the IQ4 is fabulous DB in many ways. However, it could be greater, far greater. Since that was a promise made when I bought in, I'm looking forward to seeing it go there. And I'll be the first to say job well done when we arrive. Lot's of potential, need more horsepower getting it there. Soon.


    Robert B
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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Most of Phase One's MFDBs have been pretty darn good when announced and released. The IQ4 is probably the worst release for Phase One, missing many features that were promised at the release---but still waiting. USB3 took awhile to get going on the IQ180, but that was much more understandable. Getting features such as faster flash sync on the P65+,which was a bonus and not a promised feature, was pretty darn sweet.

    I don't use all the bells and whistles of the IQ4 with the XF, so am not as impacted as others waiting for the promised features. But I do enjoy the added capabilities of Frame Averaging and Dual Exposure+. Hands down the IQ4150 is best with my Cambo WRS 1600---a nice jump in image quality over the IQ3100, albeit the IQ3 a more mature MFDB.

    I hope Phase One dedicates more resources to make the IQ4 a more mature platform, rather than fancy marketing aimed at attracting photographers new to the brand. Infinity platform should not mean waiting for infinity

    Roll out a new compact Phase One mirrorless ala Hasselblad X1D form factor and all will be forgiven.

    ken

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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Roll out a new compact Phase One mirrorless ala Hasselblad X1D form factor and all will be forgiven. ken
    One can only dream.....
    Don Libby
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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Getting the Live View in par with previous P1 CMOS backs was a huge fix. What still bothers me on this issue is I noticed the IQ4 Live View was not the same as the 3100 or 250 from the first day I used it. Reported it to P1 via dealer and never heard anything back from P1 acknowledging the issue and that a fix would be made. Then when dual exposure was released as a beta P1 also fixed the live view and brought it in spec with previous backs.

    What I still dont get is why:

    1. P1 did not see this at release as it was so obvious
    2. Why it took over a year to resolve

    The fix with latest firmware was greatly appreciated by me.

    Paul C
    Paul Caldwell
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    www.photosofarkansas.com
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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    There's a recent two-hour interview with Lau, the Chief Visionary Officer (C-level R+D/product position) of Phase One on our Project lemonade archive you may find interesting. I am extraordinarily biased, but knowing the people in R+D, and having seen what they've done during the 12 years I've been doing this, I am very bullish on the future of Phase One.
    https://www.dtcommercialphoto.com/pr...nade-webinars/
    As a P1 user I really hope you're right, but with with the recent sale of P1 to Axcel, and the declaration in the press release that '...today, the majority of growth and profitability comes from sales of software solutions...' I really do wonder how much longer P1/Axcel will keep investing in stand alone DBs, especially with the success that H/B (DJI) and Fuji have had with their mirrorless platforms. In essence, leave the hardware to them, and concentrate on the software - a la Bill Gates.

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    Re: Phase One XT users happy (eg re shift)

    BTW I'm surprised nobody here has reacted to the recent website/domain/support forum split. Now we really have the hardware on one side and the software on another.

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