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Thread: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

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    Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    A person on social media posted this message from the Linhof Studio site. Whether it's true or not it's pretty interesting. I couldn't find it when I searched the site, but basically it said that the CFV II 50c will be advertised heavily in August with the unit being available in October. It'll be 4500 Pounds plus vat. The 907x approximately 800 pounds plus vat.

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    From my inbox yesterday morning:


    --

    I think it is a great idea to offer them seperate, and why should they not?
    I own the CFV-50c and have used it with: 501cm, ALPA SWA, Max & TC, Linhof 3000, Cambo Wide 65 and a Sinar Norma.
    Will I buy this time around? Probably not since my 50c does a great job, but if I needed to upgrade I would.
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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Quote Originally Posted by nathantw View Post
    . . . . . . . . . I couldn't find it when I searched the site, but basically it said that the CFV II 50c will be advertised heavily in August with the unit being available in October. It'll be 4500 Pounds plus vat. The 907x approximately 800 pounds plus vat.
    You could not find it , because the info came by e-mail .
    Regards . JŁrgen .
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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    This is a seriously tempting offer. However, I need to resist, cannot justify more than one digital back

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    I don't think there was ever any question that the CFVII 50c back would be marketed independently of the 907x body. There is a vast audience of Hasselblad V system users out there who have complete systems already that Hasselblad taps with a new digital back that's compatible across the board. The 907x body simply offers those photographers an additional bridge into the new lens line and some of the new features possible with those, and with the H system lenses as well through the XH Adapter.

    It's all just a matter of development time, resources, and timing... And vision on the part of the company.

    G

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    V-system users have been neglected by Hasselblad for quite a while. I hope they remember us also when it comes to spare parts for their lenses.

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Glad Hasselblad is opting to let users pick and choose their tools in there suite, especially everything from 1957 to present via 907x and CFV II 50c!

    Would love to see a 500X or a 503X. Also with the form factor and production workflow down, Hasselblad should also offer a CFV 100c knowing there is a market. Keep the options and modular concept going!

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Quote Originally Posted by anyone View Post
    V-system users have been neglected by Hasselblad for quite a while. I hope they remember us also when it comes to spare parts for their lenses.
    Unfortunately, Hasselblad never manufactured the shutters themself, and most of the parts required in overhauls are shutter parts. Most of the repairs to these kinds of bits are coming from scavenging them off of other lenses that are even worse for wear, for the past decade or two.

    My lovely old Sonnar 150/4 is 1967 issue and hardly worth the cost of repair. I was thinking to 'replace' it with a CF Sonnar 150/4 or 180/4 when I find I'm using it a little more, although this ancient lens is still a fine performer.


    Hasselblad 907x + C Sonnar 150mm f/4
    ISO 200 @ f/5.6 @ 1/6

    The lens has a number of issues, but still returns some beautiful photos.

    G
    Last edited by Godfrey; 4 Weeks Ago at 12:21.

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Just thinking that for a strict V-system digital photography workflow there has been already the CFV-50c Mark I for a while.
    If you only need a back for a 5xx camera and focus through the optical viewfinder then there is nothing new that this new Mark II back can give.

    I see its potential when joined with the 907x and the X lenses. That's the added value of the Mark II. And it is also a clever move for HB because in the long term this will fully transition a lot of V-System users into the new X world. Once you have bought enough X lenses, why don't add an X1D (or X2D) and close the transition?
    I see the 907X more as a "temporary bridge" rather than a long-lasting solution.

    Time will tell.
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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Quote Originally Posted by mristuccia View Post
    Just thinking that for a strict V-system digital photography workflow there has been already the CFV-50c Mark I for a while.
    If you only need a back for a 5xx camera and focus through the optical viewfinder then there is nothing new that this new Mark II back can give.

    I see its potential when joined with the 907x and the X lenses. That's the added value of the Mark II. And it is also a clever move for HB because in the long term this will fully transition a lot of V-System users into the new X world. Once you have bought enough X lenses, why don't add an X1D (or X2D) and close the transition?
    I see the 907X more as a "temporary bridge" rather than a long-lasting solution.

    Time will tell.
    The different form factor appeal to many vs the eye-level form factor of the X1D line. Certainly does to me. Also, the CFVII 50c has a number of differences from the CFV 50c with respect to battery used, power efficiency, user interface, display quality, etc etc.

    In short, I see the 907x as "another excellent Hasselblad body", not a temporary bridge to anywhere different, and the CFVII 50c as a good follow-on, update to the previous V system compatible back.

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Quote Originally Posted by mristuccia View Post
    Just thinking that for a strict V-system digital photography workflow there has been already the CFV-50c Mark I for a while.
    If you only need a back for a 5xx camera and focus through the optical viewfinder then there is nothing new that this new Mark II back can give.

    I see its potential when joined with the 907x and the X lenses. That's the added value of the Mark II. And it is also a clever move for HB because in the long term this will fully transition a lot of V-System users into the new X world. Once you have bought enough X lenses, why don't add an X1D (or X2D) and close the transition?
    I see the 907X more as a "temporary bridge" rather than a long-lasting solution.

    Time will tell.
    If I would go down that route, I'd combine the new excellent X-system wide angles with V-system normal- and tele-lenses. It's always been hard to go really wide in the V system, and there is no solution in the V-lens lineup with the crop factor of these backs.

    In a way, the 907x would be then a digital SWC. Would be lovely if it would work also with non-Hasselblad digital backs. Did / could anyone try this? Of course chances are that the X-lens image circle is anyway too small for larger digital backs.

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Quote Originally Posted by anyone View Post
    If I would go down that route, I'd combine the new excellent X-system wide angles with V-system normal- and tele-lenses. It's always been hard to go really wide in the V system, and there is no solution in the V-lens lineup with the crop factor of these backs.

    In a way, the 907x would be then a digital SWC. Would be lovely if it would work also with non-Hasselblad digital backs. Did / could anyone try this?
    That's pretty much exactly the way I have gone with the 907x. I bought it and the XCD21mm, crop square and you have a digital SWC. I added the 45P to have the equivalent of the V system 80mm. The V system 80, 120 Makro, and 150mm work well.

    I don't think the 907x body can work with anything but the CFVII 50c back. The back has all of the programming to run the body's (minimal) controls and control the lenses and shutters. Not that I have a surfeit of alternative, V-system mount digital backs floating around the house to play with, but I sincerely doubt that it's possible... ;-)

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Bummer. One doesn't have to be a genius to discover the lack of any manual controls. Well it's early in the morning

    So how about the next iteration of the 90Xx bodies, with V-system style control of shutter and aperture at the lens mount, and compatibility to other manufacturers?

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Anyone, Godfrey, you're right, the capacity of adding a super wide-angle is another advantage. But that comes only by completely ruling out the 5xx body and the related V-system workflow.
    In a way, it is like having one of the small and lightweight technical cameras, but with a better price point, nice aesthetics, and AF. But with the lack of shifting capabilities as well.
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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    I could be wrong but remember down the thread Godfrey uploaded a 907X pic with an optical finder. I imagine that next 907 could incorporate a removable EVF or hybrid type.

    Quote Originally Posted by anyone View Post
    Bummer. One doesn't have to be a genius to discover the lack of any manual controls. Well it's early in the morning

    So how about the next iteration of the 90Xx bodies, with V-system style control of shutter and aperture at the lens mount, and compatibility to other manufacturers?

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Quote Originally Posted by anyone View Post
    Bummer. One doesn't have to be a genius to discover the lack of any manual controls. Well it's early in the morning

    So how about the next iteration of the 90Xx bodies, with V-system style control of shutter and aperture at the lens mount, and compatibility to other manufacturers?
    The 907x body has a multifunction control dial, with 'shift' button, and the shutter release. There's little more needed with the CFVII 50c back controlling everything else through it. Adding other, discrete controls would raise the price quite a lot, I expect, and the benefit for Hasselblad ... how? Whenever I think of things that they could do for me, I always think in the context of "how will they make a profit on it without costing me an arm and a leg?"

    I'm pretty content with the system as they've defined it, thus far. I'm glad of that, otherwise I'd have spent an awful lot of money (to me) without getting the satisfaction I wanted.

    G

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Quote Originally Posted by mristuccia View Post
    Anyone, Godfrey, you're right, the capacity of adding a super wide-angle is another advantage. But that comes only by completely ruling out the 5xx body and the related V-system workflow.
    In a way, it is like having one of the small and lightweight technical cameras, but with a better price point, nice aesthetics, and AF. But with the lack of shifting capabilities as well.
    The V-system is technically discontinued and the only wides it offered that fit on the reflex bodies are the Distagon 40, Distagon 50, and Distagon 65. So you're not going to get "the related V-system workflow" with a wide angle lens on a 33x44 mm format sensor, unless the equivalent of a 30mm lens on FF is what you consider wide. If that's the case, just use the back on your 500 series camera with the appropriate lens.

    There's good reason to combine the systems and seek the greatest advantages of both for what you want to do and how you prefer to work. That's why I bought the 21mm lens for the 907x body. I added the 45mm lens because it presents a very versatile and compact option for general shooting, and I'll likely add the 80mm lens for its speed and longer focal length versatility as well. Yes, my workflow will be different (and actually better, in my opinion, because the 907x/CFVII 50c display allows better, more accurate focusing and framing, and much less camera vibration).

    If you want a technical camera with swings, tilts, shifts, etc, just buy one and add the capture back du jour you like. I don't see that as a reason, specifically, to want the Hasselblad back, or to complain about it. To me, the whole point was that I already had V system equipment, and the 907x and a couple of lenses brings my system, for my needs, up to date with excellent capture and imaging capabilities.

    G

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Quote Originally Posted by B L View Post
    I could be wrong but remember down the thread Godfrey uploaded a 907X pic with an optical finder. I imagine that next 907 could incorporate a removable EVF or hybrid type.
    Why does everyone on this thread want to expand and make the camera even more complex and expensive?

    I see the proposed Hasseblad grip and optical finder as a way to make the 907x more useful for fast, eye level shooting with a typical wide-ish to normal lens. I don't see it as a sensible way to add more lens/viewfinder versatility and such ... if you want that, just buy an X1D II.

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    I guess its just that:

    If you are in the market for a new digital back, the combination is great.
    If you are not, it's not an option. (Or if you do not want that crop factor on your V-system lenses).

    That's why I'd love to have a version that works with other manufacturers backs with the control dials.

    On the other hand, I already do have other nice wide-angle options on my tech cam with larger image circles.
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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    If I am allowed to dream Here's a small simple follow-on product: Metabones make a XCD mount to V mount Speedbooster adapter. With that and the 907x and CFV-50C II, you have a "full frame" 645 camera using V lens ~_o

    Or, since I am dreaming: Hasselblad creates a 909Vx based on the 907x with a speedbooster-type converter built-in and takes the V lens natively...

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Quote Originally Posted by richardman View Post
    If I am allowed to dream Here's a small simple follow-on product: Metabones make a XCD mount to V mount Speedbooster adapter. With that and the 907x and CFV-50C II, you have a "full frame" 645 camera using V lens ~_o

    Or, since I am dreaming: Hasselblad creates a 909Vx based on the 907x with a speedbooster-type converter built-in and takes the V lens natively...
    Sorry but I’m not following your line of thinking. Hasselblad already makes an xv-lens mount adapter and it should have a coverage of 6x6, Hasselblad CP.HB.00000241.01.
    Last edited by nathantw; 4 Weeks Ago at 12:24.

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Quote Originally Posted by richardman View Post
    If I am allowed to dream Here's a small simple follow-on product: Metabones make a XCD mount to V mount Speedbooster adapter. With that and the 907x and CFV-50C II, you have a "full frame" 645 camera using V lens ~_o

    Or, since I am dreaming: Hasselblad creates a 909Vx based on the 907x with a speedbooster-type converter built-in and takes the V lens natively...
    Quote Originally Posted by nathantw View Post
    Sorry but Iím not following your line of thinking. Hasselblad already makes an xv-lens mount adapter and it should have a coverage of 6x6, Hasselblad CP.HB.00000241.01.
    I think Richard is suggesting a Speedbooster adapter to preserve the 'native' FOV of V system lenses on the 33x44 mm format sensor, and the '909Vx' allowing one to use the lens shutter instead of the CFVII 50c electronic shutter.

    The latter could be done with a more sophisticated mount adapter that allowed the body to trigger the V lens shutter, but I think one of those was made for the H system and it doesn't sell all that well ... such an adapter has to be pretty expensive to make given its complexity.

    The Speedbooster type adapter, at least for me, is a non-issue since my existing Hasselblad V system lenses all work fine on the 33x44 sensor ... just jump one focal length down the range to get the same FoV ... and for what doesn't exist in V system lenses on the wide end of the range, I'd buy an XCD lens to fill that gap. (Which is basically what I've done... )

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Interesting pricing if that is correct.

    The standard edition plus the 907x is only about £500 less than the special edition (with UK VAT £600) £4,500 for the back plus £800 for the 907x - both plus 20% VAT as compared to £5825 plus VAT for the special edition. From what I remember the special edition X1D was quite significantly more expensive than the standard edition.

    In the current financial climate I don't think I can justify either but still if the standard edition is not going to ship until October those who might consider the special edition as being a premium worth paying.



    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    From my inbox yesterday morning:


    --

    I think it is a great idea to offer them seperate, and why should they not?
    I own the CFV-50c and have used it with: 501cm, ALPA SWA, Max & TC, Linhof 3000, Cambo Wide 65 and a Sinar Norma.
    Will I buy this time around? Probably not since my 50c does a great job, but if I needed to upgrade I would.

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Quote Originally Posted by nathantw View Post
    Sorry but Iím not following your line of thinking. Hasselblad already makes an xv-lens mount adapter and it should have a coverage of 6x6, Hasselblad CP.HB.00000241.01.
    Godfrey got half of it. Yes, in my dream setup, this would allow full (6:45) use of the V lens image circle on the crop sensor, and this is why it's more appealing to me than just the 907x as the 907x is 1.3x crop.

    As for the leaf shutters, it's OK *for me* to only support the F lenses :-) so for the non-F lens, electronic shutter is fine with me.

    The thing is that this is not much more difficult than the 907x. Literally the easiest is a speedbooster-style lens element, plus a XD mount.... Heck, maybe I will write to Metabones...
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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Quote Originally Posted by richardman View Post
    Godfrey got half of it. Yes, in my dream setup, this would allow full (6:45) use of the V lens image circle on the crop sensor, and this is why it's more appealing to me than just the 907x as the 907x is 1.3x crop.

    As for the leaf shutters, it's OK *for me* to only support the F lenses :-) so for the non-F lens, electronic shutter is fine with me.

    The thing is that this is not much more difficult than the 907x. Literally the easiest is a speedbooster-style lens element, plus a XD mount.... Heck, maybe I will write to Metabones...
    The thing I don't understand, then, is what the purpose of a 909Vx body might be. It won't add anything to build in a V system lens mount, it actually detracts because it has to make the camera larger and you lose access to XCD and H system lenses. If you only use V system lenses, just leave the adapter in place (or the Speedbooster that someone else makes). That's how I use my Leica CL ... I never take the M Adapter L off the body.

    G

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    The thing I don't understand, then, is what the purpose of a 909Vx body might be. It won't add anything to build in a V system lens mount, it actually detracts because it has to make the camera larger and you lose access to XCD and H system lenses. If you only use V system lenses, just leave the adapter in place (or the Speedbooster that someone else makes). That's how I use my Leica CL ... I never take the M Adapter L off the body.

    G
    Right, as I said, either Metabones makes a XCD->V Speedbooster, or Hassy can make a "909Vx". Either way, it's a method for the few V lens users left ;-) to have full use of the V lens in a Hassy camera.

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Quote Originally Posted by richardman View Post
    Right, as I said, either Metabones makes a XCD->V Speedbooster, or Hassy can make a "909Vx". Either way, it's a method for the few V lens users left ;-) to have full use of the V lens in a Hassy camera.
    I getcha..

    G

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Quote Originally Posted by richardman View Post
    Right, as I said, either Metabones makes a XCD->V Speedbooster, or Hassy can make a "909Vx". Either way, it's a method for the few V lens users left ;-) to have full use of the V lens in a Hassy camera.
    Why not just use a 200- or 500-series camera then? It has full compatibility and no extra money since you already own it.

    I'm obviously excited about the digital back and maybe the 907X and still want the black commemorative set, but for the price I can literally buy a X1D and a 45p. For a little more money I can also get an XV-adapter as well. It just kinda feels like if we want a digital camera, then we should just buy a digital camera. Truthfully I purchased a Phase One P25 back a few years ago as an addition to my film backs. At first I was shooting both at the same time, but as time went on I realized I was shooting more with the digital back exclusively. In fact, I just put new Hasselblad light seals in my film back a couple weeks ago and shot with film as a test of the light seal for the first time in about a year. So, for me at least, I've realized that maybe the CFV/907x isn't the way I should be going. Anyway, something to think about.

    And this is a good reason why Hasselblad should have come out with the CFV and 907x separately over a year ago. I would have just picked it up back then instead of having over a year to think about whether to purchase it or not.
    Last edited by nathantw; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:39.

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    My motivations and goals for buying the 907x, aside from the fact of the special edition being a commemorative piece honoring the Apollo 11 Landing event, seem a bit different from just "wanting to buy a digital camera."

    The 907x/CVFII 50c revitalizes my Hasselblad 500CM kit with a full digital workflow, using the back alone, at the same time that it gives me access to the X, V, and H system lenses on the 907x. I prefer the 907x over the X1D model line because it is primarily a waist level/tripod camera rather than a camera oriented primarily for eye-level work ... similar to why I love shooting with the 500CM so much. The 907x/CFVII 50c also continues the modular tradition of the Hasselblad V system cameras, something that I've been delighted by for decades.

    When Hasselblad announced the 907x Special Edition, I didn't have to think about it or wonder if it was a fit. I knew immediately that this was what I'd been waiting for and placed an order immediately. For me, an X1DII is not a potential additional body for the future, if I find that I want/need more of an eye-level camera with the same sensor dynamics that can use the same lenses.

    Should Hasselblad have come out with the two parts of this kit separately over a year ago? That's a value judgment that I cannot make ... I'd certainly have enjoyed getting the kit earlier than I did, but I don't know what business and manufacturing challenges Hasselblad has been striving to overcome well enough to make that judgement. I know that it would not have changed much for me and my purchase decision. I'm just glad they decided to come out with this kit at all. The 907x body provides a way forwards into the modern lens line, past the V system but with a lot of the same feel and ergonomics.



    Regards the Speedbooster adapter that Richard would like, well, in some ways it would be nice. These devices are never lossless, though, so if someone produces one I'd have to evaluate it with some care. But my lens kit just happens to be equally functional on both 6x6 film and 33x33 (cropped) sensor by just dropping down one focal length in the range, and supplementing it with an additional, wider focal length in XCD mount. That works well enough for me, too.

    G

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Quote Originally Posted by nathantw View Post
    Why not just use a 200- or 500-series camera then? It has full compatibility and no extra money since you already own it.
    Just a dream man, just a dream. I am quite happy with my 8x10, 4x5s, and the 203FE ~_o

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    My motivations and goals for buying the 907x, aside from the fact of the special edition being a commemorative piece honoring the Apollo 11 Landing event, seem a bit different from just "wanting to buy a digital camera."
    I can understand that. I just purchased some Apollo 11 stamps from the US Postal Service. They're awesome with reflective silver being used. I don't think I'll ever use those. I also have a commemorative Limited Edition Zippo lighter. I wear an Omega Speedmaster Professional because of the moon landings and finally, I also use the 553ELX camera with the astronaut shutter release plate because they used that on the moon. I'd love to have the 907x/CFV II, but if the lettering and the commemorative moon landing plate ends up being $900 more than the regular version, then I'll probably pass.

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Quote Originally Posted by nathantw View Post
    I can understand that. I just purchased some Apollo 11 stamps from the US Postal Service. They're awesome with reflective silver being used. I don't think I'll ever use those. I also have a commemorative Limited Edition Zippo lighter. I wear an Omega Speedmaster Professional because of the moon landings and finally, I also use the 553ELX camera with the astronaut shutter release plate because they used that on the moon. I'd love to have the 907x/CFV II, but if the lettering and the commemorative moon landing plate ends up being $900 more than the regular version, then I'll probably pass.
    I have some NASA lunar HB stuff, but the one thing that I really, really want... the 203S, the very last V Hasselblad in space. Basically it's a 203FE with the Winder CW, extended finder, and modified 70mm computerized recording back. Replace the EDB with a CFV II and it would be sweet!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Hassy USA has them shipping mid July. Just got confirmation. Just FYI

    ó from a brand new Hasselblad convert (500cm)

    Quote Originally Posted by pflower View Post
    Interesting pricing if that is correct.

    The standard edition plus the 907x is only about £500 less than the special edition (with UK VAT £600) £4,500 for the back plus £800 for the 907x - both plus 20% VAT as compared to £5825 plus VAT for the special edition. From what I remember the special edition X1D was quite significantly more expensive than the standard edition.

    In the current financial climate I don't think I can justify either but still if the standard edition is not going to ship until October those who might consider the special edition as being a premium worth paying.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Quote Originally Posted by docholliday View Post
    I have some NASA lunar HB stuff, but the one thing that I really, really want... the 203S, the very last V Hasselblad in space. Basically it's a 203FE with the Winder CW, extended finder, and modified 70mm computerized recording back. Replace the EDB with a CFV II and it would be sweet!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    That looks like you can use a regular 203FE with the winder and finder. It sounds like you're probably already there. You just need the CFV II. Oh, if you really want to be authentic though, you'll need the 2nd Gen Omega Speedmaster X-33. I have that as well.

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Quote Originally Posted by nathantw View Post
    That looks like you can use a regular 203FE with the winder and finder. It sounds like you're probably already there. You just need the CFV II. Oh, if you really want to be authentic though, you'll need the 2nd Gen Omega Speedmaster X-33. I have that as well.
    The big difference is that the 203FE uses the F winder and the 203S has a custom built CW winder. There's also the blocked and shoe'd finder for the S. The Smithsonian has one on display: https://airandspace.si.edu/collectio...m_A20080088000 The one thing about the EDB is that it synced to the shuttle computers so it knew exactly where it's position was. Now that's a real GPS unit!

    To be really authentic, I'd also need the camera assembly weighing next to zero and all the benefits of shooting it in zero G.

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Quote Originally Posted by docholliday View Post

    To be really authentic, I'd also need the camera assembly weighing next to zero and all the benefits of shooting it in zero G.
    To be really authentic, you need to get a working Space Shuttle Apparently you can either mod a 203FE body or a CW Winder to fit, instructions are on the web and does not appear to be too difficult

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Quote Originally Posted by richardman View Post
    To be really authentic, you need to get a working Space Shuttle Apparently you can either mod a 203FE body or a CW Winder to fit, instructions are on the web and does not appear to be too difficult
    ah, the camera is not cheap, but the accessories...!!

    G

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    Re: Separate CFV II 50c and 907X

    Quote Originally Posted by richardman View Post
    To be really authentic, you need to get a working Space Shuttle Apparently you can either mod a 203FE body or a CW Winder to fit, instructions are on the web and does not appear to be too difficult
    There are instructions, but it's just not the same...I want that dirty, cooped up in recirculated air and zero-g'd smell with mine!

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