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Thread: Filter holder / system

  1. #1
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    Filter holder / system

    Hi there,

    I postponed this for a long while sticking to screw-in filters, but now I want to make the step and buy into a filter system.

    My intended use for it:
    1) with Hasselblad V lenses (most of them with B60 mount, some with B70, some with 93mm thread)
    2) with view camera lenses (I believe the largest is 86mm, most of them in the 67 - 77mm filter thread range)
    3) with digital view camera lenses (much smaller filter threads)

    My questions are:
    a) Which size do you recommend? Will a 100mm holder be big enough?
    b) Which system do you recommend? I'm looking mainly for graduated ND filters, polarizer.
    c) How do you combine these with traditional filters, e.g. a red filter for black and white film photography?

    So far, I've been looking at the Firecrest system. I suppose the holder they call "Firecrest" is made from plastics, while aluminium is clear.

    Thank you!

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    Re: Filter holder / system

    Quote Originally Posted by anyone View Post
    Hi there,

    I postponed this for a long while sticking to screw-in filters, but now I want to make the step and buy into a filter system.

    My intended use for it:
    1) with Hasselblad V lenses (most of them with B60 mount, some with B70, some with 93mm thread)
    2) with view camera lenses (I believe the largest is 86mm, most of them in the 67 - 77mm filter thread range)
    3) with digital view camera lenses (much smaller filter threads)

    My questions are:
    a) Which size do you recommend? Will a 100mm holder be big enough?
    b) Which system do you recommend? I'm looking mainly for graduated ND filters, polarizer.
    c) How do you combine these with traditional filters, e.g. a red filter for black and white film photography?

    So far, I've been looking at the Firecrest system. I suppose the holder they call "Firecrest" is made from plastics, while aluminium is clear.

    Thank you!
    I have used the same Lee Filters 100mm system for about twenty years with all my various cameras; 3 4x5 systems, a 6x6 film system, Leica M9 and MP-240 and Leica S. I have had no reason to try anything else and I suspect other systems could be just as durable and flexible. 100mm should be be large enough unless you have a very large diameter lens. Additionally, I use a 105mm polarizer on the front of the filter holder if I am using 100mm filters plus polarizer. My largest filter thread diameter is 95mm. For my 24mm lens for the S system, I use a LEE Filters 100mm push-on filter holder.

    With respect to filters, I have used LEE, Firecrest, Haida and Kodak. I do not like Firecrest neutral density filters (5-stop and 10-stop). All high stop neutral density filters cause some degree of image degradation, however, Haida does a much better job than Firecrest. For graduated ND and polarizer, Firecrest is fine. I also have used LEE filters for polarizers and black and white work.

    Red, yellow, orange, etc. filters are available in 100mm. My most-used filter for black and white is K25.
    Best regards,
    Jesse
    djessemay.com
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    Re: Filter holder / system

    Wine Country Camera filter system and Blackstone ND and grads. Built in polarizer is very nice and easy to adjust w/ large knob. NDs are the most neutral Ive used. Well thought out system contributes to an efficient work-flow. There are a couple of other brands who ripped off the concept, but I think the WC system is the best quality.

    Rand
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    Re: Filter holder / system

    Thank you for your recommendations!

    The WCC kit looks nice but is VERY pricy here in Europe. How large is the polarizer? I suppose that will be the limiting factor when wanting to use the filters with my larger lenses, including the 93mm thread.

    The lee filter holder seems to be the cheapest option. Great to hear that it also performs well!

    Any other opinions about filter holders? I'm curious about the Firecrest holder, since it retails for GBP 99 including a polarizer.

    However, I'm not looking for the cheapest kit, but one that is a joy to use, durable, and rather lightweight.
    Last edited by anyone; 4 Weeks Ago at 22:53.

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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: Filter holder / system

    H&Y filter system:
    https://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-...tml?highlight=

    BTW, there are complaints by several people (me included) in regard to the difficulty trying to get the Magnetic H&Y frames mounted around third party grad filters, both the 100x100 or 100x150 frames. That problem appears to have been solved. The last few batches of bare frames I received went together just fine.

    Dave
    Last edited by dchew; 4 Weeks Ago at 00:31.
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    Re: Filter holder / system

    Quote Originally Posted by anyone View Post
    Thank you for your recommendations!

    The WCC kit looks nice but is VERY pricy here in Europe. How large is the polarizer? I suppose that will be the limiting factor when wanting to use the filters with my larger lenses, including the 93mm thread.
    There is a video about it on this page:

    https://www.dtcommercialphoto.com/pr...d-vaults-pack/

    I see you are a senior member now.



    --Steve.
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    Re: Filter holder / system

    The H&Y system actually looks very good as it seems to be not as bulky as the WCC system. And the LCC possibility should have been on my list from the beginning.

    Now the question is: which of the solutions will fit my larger lenses? The H&Y system has 'only' 86mm adapter rings available.

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    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Filter holder / system

    As a devotee of GAS, I have several filter systems, and have barely used them. (See tripods.) But I can offer my observations:

    WCC - big, heavy, vignettes on my wide lenses (Leica S24mm and Fuji GF23). Lowest chance of touching or dropping glass.

    H&Y - I love the idea, but I get light leaks. Even with a single filter. The edges are sometimes purple - is that IR leakage? Maybe my set is defective. The magnetic frames are tricky, as they need to stick well enough to stay on, but then removing them leads to the occasional flying filter frame. Haven't lost or broken one yet, but then, I've only used it a half-dozen times.

    Example: 3 minute exposure. Hassy X-1D. User error is a distinct possibility.



    Managed to make a nice B&W out of it, but still...



    Firecrest - Smallest and lightest, best light protection, requires fiddling with unframed filters. Hardest to get rid of the polarizer for WA lenses - I've just keep mine unmounted. Vieri suggested getting two holders, one with the polarizer mounted, one without.

    This is about 1/3 of a GFX 100 capture. Stacked 10-stop and 6-stop. 2-minute exposure. The colors came from pushing the black and white points as far as they would go, and then DE-saturating. Not realistic, but kind of fun.



    I think the H&Y and Firecrest 100mm sets have 82mm maximum adapters, but there are also 150mm sets that will fit anything. Not sure who makes the larger ones. I have one 86mm diameter lens (Laowa 17mm for the GFX), but I'm not getting a larger system just for one lens.

    Best,

    Matt
    Last edited by MGrayson; 4 Weeks Ago at 07:06.
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    Re: Filter holder / system

    That rules out the WCC-system for me as large and bulky equals "stays at home".

    So my favourite so far is the H&Y system, except for the light leaks. Are there similar issues in your setup, Dave (and others)?

    Thank you for all your help so far!

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    Re: Filter holder / system

    I replaced my WC for the H&Y and so far no issues.
    Don Libby
    www.ironcreekphotographyblog.com
    Tucson AZ
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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: Filter holder / system

    Quote Originally Posted by anyone View Post
    Are there similar issues in your setup, Dave (and others)?
    I have not seen light leak issues. The most dramatic stress test I've done for light leaks is a long exposure in bright, direct sun using the black card I showed in that thread. 60 seconds at f/4.5, 100 ISO. If my math is correct, based on the sunny-16 rule that is 16-17 stops overexposed. The highest lab luminance level I could find in that scenario was still <1.0. I've also used everything up to the 10 stop ND from H&Y and have not seen any issues. I am not sure what ND filter Matt was using; I am suspicious of using the H&Y system with square ND filters, although I have no experience with them. Based on Matt's mention of the magnetic frames I suspect he is using square ND filters magnetically mounted on the face, but not sure. I use the H&Y ND filters that are round and drop into the dedicated slot. I do use the GND filters, 100x150, that mount magnetically on the front face and those also work fine.

    If Matt is using square ND's, that would confirm my suspicion. If he is using the H&Y round ND's, then that is not something I've seen and it should be further investigated.

    Dave
    How glorious a greeting the sun gives the mountains! - John Muir

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    Re: Filter holder / system

    I think I will go with the H&Y system. Their largest filter thread available is 86mm, so that excludes my largest lenses, but I can live with that. Taking a larger filter size just for those lenses doesn't seem to be a good idea.

    Are the magnets strong enough for windy days and stacked filters?

    More specifically, I will shop this one:
    K-series Holder + drop-in 95mm MRC-CPL 100mm System
    together with empty magnet holders for manufacturing a fitting LCC plate.

    Now coming to filters.
    ND filter suggestions were Haida and Blackstone ND and graduated filters.

    I expect the following filters I'd need:
    General (strong) ND for long exposure
    General (not very strong) ND for using live view on my CCD back and not-quite-as-long-exposure
    Graduated ND for darkening skies on landscape shots
    Black and white filters, dark red and yellow
    Polarizer (but this is already included in the filter holder)

    Anything that comes to mind I could have forgotten? Which ones do you recommend?
    Thank you all so much for your help!

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    Re: Filter holder / system

    Quote Originally Posted by dchew View Post
    I have not seen light leak issues. The most dramatic stress test I've done for light leaks is a long exposure in bright, direct sun using the black card I showed in that thread. 60 seconds at f/4.5, 100 ISO. If my math is correct, based on the sunny-16 rule that is 16-17 stops overexposed. The highest lab luminance level I could find in that scenario was still <1.0. I've also used everything up to the 10 stop ND from H&Y and have not seen any issues. I am not sure what ND filter Matt was using; I am suspicious of using the H&Y system with square ND filters, although I have no experience with them. Based on Matt's mention of the magnetic frames I suspect he is using square ND filters magnetically mounted on the face, but not sure. I use the H&Y ND filters that are round and drop into the dedicated slot. I do use the GND filters, 100x150, that mount magnetically on the front face and those also work fine.

    If Matt is using square ND's, that would confirm my suspicion. If he is using the H&Y round ND's, then that is not something I've seen and it should be further investigated.

    Dave
    I've done it both with square 10-stop + grad and circular 10-stop drop in and grad. I'll retest both right now. Pictures to follow...

    ... after experimenting ...

    Oddly, the drop in circular 10-stop had color cast edges, but the square 10 stop by itself did not. The camera was in shade, but shooting a clear sky and buildings at f/32 for 2 minutes.

    ... after testing with the grad ND as well ...

    I've come to the conclusion that the H&Y system is just fine. The only verifiably bad picture I can find was 3 minutes in direct sunlight with 2 stacked square filters (posted above). Everything I did today illustrated one very important point - wide angle lenses capture a lot of the sky. What looked like color cast edges was, in fact, differently colored haze. Matching the color balance between circular + grad, square + grad, and nothing yielded very similar images.

    --Matt
    Last edited by MGrayson; 4 Weeks Ago at 12:17.
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    Re: Filter holder / system

    Quote Originally Posted by anyone View Post
    Now coming to filters.
    ND filter suggestions were Haida and Blackstone ND and graduated filters.

    I expect the following filters I'd need:
    General (strong) ND for long exposure
    General (not very strong) ND for using live view on my CCD back and not-quite-as-long-exposure
    Graduated ND for darkening skies on landscape shots
    Black and white filters, dark red and yellow
    Polarizer (but this is already included in the filter holder)

    Anything that comes to mind I could have forgotten? Which ones do you recommend?
    Thank you all so much for your help!
    I do not use filters frequently, however, I carry them with me for those shots that require them.
    For ND, I have 5-stop, 10-stop and 15-stop
    For graduated ND, I use 3-stop soft mostly. I have others but have not used them for years, due to the lighting range capabilities of my digital cameras. I use it when lighting ranges are extreme and it has proved useful. For black and white film, I never use it. I use compensating development.

    I have a complement of yellow, red, orange and green filters for black and white, but K25 became my most used.
    Best regards,
    Jesse
    djessemay.com
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    Re: Filter holder / system

    Quote Originally Posted by anyone View Post
    Are the magnets strong enough for windy days and stacked filters?
    I think so. Based on nothing more than anecdotal info, I think the tripod would blow over before the filter blew off. The magnets are in the filter frames, so the second filter is held just as tightly as the first. I use the H&Y grads, which are heavier glass. My biggest concern when I bought into this system was accidentally knocking them off. After using the system, I haven't worried about it since.

    Dave
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    Re: Filter holder / system

    Thank you all for your insights and Matt also for testing!

    For the filter brands, are the NDs from H&Y fine? I suppose it would be a little cheaper to buy a kit there and they come already installed in the holders. Dave, you mentioned you use the drop-in versions, therefore not in combination with the polarizer? (I anyway would have very little use for combinations of ND + Polarizer, so not a big issue)

    Jesse, which B&W filters are you using? Are you using Lee (foil) filters? I don't trust foil too much, the least I can think of is sort of rigid plastic, better glas.

    Also thinking where / how to get the LCC in card in the right size.
    Last edited by anyone; 4 Weeks Ago at 22:26.

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    Re: Filter holder / system

    I haven't done a comparison myself, but the OnLandscape articles I referenced above had H&Y ND's rated highly. At first I was a bit put off by the ND+Polarizer combo, but after thinking about it and using it I kind of like it. Don't want a polarizer affect? Rotate it away. If you want it, just rotate it in. There are some reflective specular situations where you can't rotate it completely away, but I am usually not photographing polished chrome.

    I also don't shoot really wide.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by anyone View Post
    Thank you all for your insights and Matt also for testing!

    For the filter brands, are the NDs from H&Y fine? I suppose it would be a little cheaper to buy a kit there and they come already installed in the holders. Dave, you mentioned you use the drop-in versions, therefore not in combination with the polarizer? (I anyway would have very little use for combinations of ND + Polarizer, so not a big issue)

    Jesse, which B&W filters are you using? Are you using Lee (foil) filters?
    How glorious a greeting the sun gives the mountains! - John Muir

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    Re: Filter holder / system

    Quote Originally Posted by anyone View Post
    Jesse, which B&W filters are you using? Are you using Lee (foil) filters? I don't trust foil too much, the least I can think of is sort of rigid plastic, better glas.

    Also thinking where / how to get the LCC in card in the right size.
    I use Kodak Wratten K25 mounted in a Lee frame. The others are Lee polyester mounted in Lee frames. However, as I mentioned I have not used the polyester filters in a long time. If you use a polarizer with a polyester filter, the filter must be between the lens and the polarizer. I would replace them with Kodak if I thought I would use them.
    Best regards,
    Jesse
    djessemay.com
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    Re: Filter holder / system

    I actually went outside with a tripod and filters and everything. GFX 100 with 100-200 zoom. The damned fountain I went to photograph was OFF. So I tried the water anyway. The clouds were absolutely stationary. Ended up tripping over the uneven curb, fell on my back and was saved from injury by the camera and two lenses still in the backpack. Dangerous stuff, this filter testing!

    Matt
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    Re: Filter holder / system

    Matt, please don't hurt yourself! I appreciate the testing you have done, outstanding effort!

    I add also a reverse grad to the shopping list. I know why I avoided this for so long: filters are very expensive and I most likely use them rather seldom, at least that is now the case with my screw-in filters. But when you need them, you need them, and I missed a grad more than once.

    The Kodak Wratten SW filters I cannot find anywhere for sale anymore, so I might have to go to resin Lee filters. Unfortunately there is no magnetic adapter in 100x100 for them.
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    Re: Filter holder / system

    Worry not! I'm doing this for several personal reasons.

    It gets me outside - I'm lazy enough to use the pandemic as an excuse to live on the couch.

    It gets me to use and carry a tripod - which I should do anyway, especially to learn NOT to be limited by where I first plunk it down.

    It gets me to experiment with long exposures - not that I want foggy water and streaked skies for everything, but it's a nice technique to have in the bag, and extends the range of my own vision.

    And it lets me to use this equipment that otherwise gathers dust.

    Best,

    Matt
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    Re: Filter holder / system

    I have been researching filter systems also; I wanted an integrated CPL in the system as well. Two other options just to mention;PolarPro, a newer line that looks good, max thread size 95mmm, and Nisi Optics, which is what I ended up choosing, since they had a system with thread size of 105mm I needed for my largest lens. The Nisi filters are very high quality- I am impressed with their optics.


    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Worry not! I'm doing this for several personal reasons.

    It gets me outside - I'm lazy enough to use the pandemic as an excuse to live on the couch.

    It gets me to use and carry a tripod - which I should do anyway, especially to learn NOT to be limited by where I first plunk it down.

    It gets me to experiment with long exposures - not that I want foggy water and streaked skies for everything, but it's a nice technique to have in the bag, and extends the range of my own vision.

    And it lets me to use this equipment that otherwise gathers dust.

    Best,

    Matt

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