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Schneider Kreuznach 120mm MF TS f/5.6 with extension tubes

P. Chong

Well-known member
I don't seem to be able to find the technical data - magnification, working distances of the 120mm TS lens with the Phase One Auto Extension Rings. Can anyone point me to the right direction? Appreciate any help. Thanks.


B&H photo of said lens for visual effect.

There was a Capture Integration article outlining the usage, but no tech details, and the pictures in the articles do not show for me.
https://www.captureintegration.com/schneider-120mm-ts-for-p1mamiya-645-re-evaluated/
 

Gerd

Active member
I have the lens and the auto extension rings.
The minimum focus distance is 84cm
Maxium Magnification ratio is 0.16x

I hope this helps you.

Greetings Gerd
 

steve_cor

Member
There is a manual for the extension tubes, but it only refers to use with an 80mm lens. That lens has a minimum focus distance of 2.3 feet without any extension tubes. The chart in the manual shows the minimum focus distance with each extension tube. Maybe with that information you could estimate working distances of the 120mm TS lens with the Phase One Auto Extension Rings.


http://www.cameramanuals.org/mamiya_pdf/mamiya_m645_auto_extension_rings.pdf


If it helps you could send him the requested donation.



--Steve.
 

P. Chong

Well-known member
Thanks Gerd, the 84cm and 0.16X magnification is that of the lens on its own, isn't it? I am thinking of using the lens for table top macro, and the info I am looking for is the magnification and min focus with the tubes. Ideally there should be published data on each of the rings used on its own, and in combination.


I have the lens and the auto extension rings.
The minimum focus distance is 84cm
Maxium Magnification ratio is 0.16x

I hope this helps you.

Greetings Gerd
 

P. Chong

Well-known member
Thanks. But not really. I am used to Hasselblad H, where the data on the rings in combination with every lens it is possible to be attached to is published.


There is a manual for the extension tubes, but it only refers to use with an 80mm lens. That lens has a minimum focus distance of 2.3 feet without any extension tubes. The chart in the manual shows the minimum focus distance with each extension tube. Maybe with that information you could estimate working distances of the 120mm TS lens with the Phase One Auto Extension Rings.


http://www.cameramanuals.org/mamiya_pdf/mamiya_m645_auto_extension_rings.pdf


If it helps you could send him the requested donation.



--Steve.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
I don't seem to be able to find the technical data - magnification, working distances of the 120mm TS lens with the Phase One Auto Extension Rings. Can anyone point me to the right direction? Appreciate any help. Thanks.
I have the lens and the auto extension rings.
The minimum focus distance is 84cm
Maxium Magnification ratio is 0.16x
To calculate working distance and magnification with any lens, you just need the basic math for magnification vs extension shown in this article*Macro Extreme (technicals) | Doug Peterson. Using that math you can back out the amount of extension the lens natively allows, add the extension you want to add in the form of tubes, and recalcule the resulting magnification.

So since the 120mm TS reaches 0.16x magnification

Magnification = [Extension – Focal Length] / [Focal Length]
0.16 = [ext - 120] / [120]
120*0.16 = [ext - 120]
19.2 + 120 = ext
139.2 = ext

So the 120 TS provides 139.2mm max extension natively.

If you then add 36mm (the largest tube, solo) then...
mag = [139.2 + 36 - 120] / [120]
mag = [55.2] / [120]
mag = 0.46

Or very roughly 1:2 magnification rather than roughly 1:6 magnification you get natively.

You can repeat the above for other combinations of extension tubes. The math also works for any brand/make/model of lens/tubes. Just remember that being able to focus a given lens to a given magnification does NOT guarantee that lens will perform well at that magnification; in your specific case that lens will perform well at more than it's native maximum. Though the closer you get to 1:1 the more I'd suggest switching to a 105HR on a tech camera like an Actus or Universalis.

Remember that Phase One is not a SKU on some website, it's a product distributed by knowledgable partners who can help you with questions like this one. Don't be afraid to put your dealer to work; it's literally their job to help!
 

P. Chong

Well-known member
Thanks Doug...appreciate it.

I do know of the formula. Fujinon and Hasselblad publishes the data of their lenses with the various tubes, so comparisons can be made...but the last time I did it, and compared the results with their published the results, I remembered that the numbers don't seem to match. I don't have time to do the calculations and comparisons now, but perhaps the weekend might be a good time for me to put my spreadsheet to use. :)

BTW, any idea why the pictures on the CI article I quoted in my first post does not show?
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
Hi P Chong - thanks for finding that article - I was also looking and found that it had not been properly migrated to our new website. I have restored the article for you and others. Back in 2014 I performed a comparative test against the Phase One/Mamiya 120mm D Lens. The point of the test was specifically to see if the addition of 3 extension tubes had a detrimental affect on optical performance. Some lenses are just not designed to exceed their native magnification factor, and can become a very mushy close up lens. This is not the case with the 120mm TS lens, it performed excellently with all 3 extension tubes stacked. It's a great lens - a shame it is discontinued.

The post is linked below:
https://www.captureintegration.com/re-evaluating-the-schneider-120mm-t-s-for-p1-mamiya-645/


Steve Hendrix/CI
 

P. Chong

Well-known member
Thanks Steve...superb article. Being able to see the photographs answers some of my questions. Thanks!


Hi P Chong - thanks for finding that article - I was also looking and found that it had not been properly migrated to our new website. I have restored the article for you and others. Back in 2014 I performed a comparative test against the Phase One/Mamiya 120mm D Lens. The point of the test was specifically to see if the addition of 3 extension tubes had a detrimental affect on optical performance. Some lenses are just not designed to exceed their native magnification factor, and can become a very mushy close up lens. This is not the case with the 120mm TS lens, it performed excellently with all 3 extension tubes stacked. It's a great lens - a shame it is discontinued.

The post is linked below:
https://www.captureintegration.com/re-evaluating-the-schneider-120mm-t-s-for-p1-mamiya-645/


Steve Hendrix/CI
 
Some additional information: As far as I know, this lens is the Schneider Apo-Digitar 120 asph (for technical camera) rehoused into the TS body with Mamiya 645 mount. Though, it could have been the other way around, that it was initially designed as a PC-TS lens and Schneider saw the opportunity to also release a small Copal-0 version of lens for technical cameras.
The same lens is also available for the Leica S under the Leica brand.

-Dominique
 
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