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Thread: Rm3d here for real?

  1. #1
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    Rm3d here for real?

    A new article on the Arca Rm3d can be found here (in French):

    http://www.galerie-photo.com/arca-swiss-rm3d.html

    You can use the Google translator but it doesn't make much more sense, LOL!

    There are some mouth-watering pictures, though.

    This shop also seems to be selling them...

    http://www.arca-shop.de/Fachkameras/...Rm3D::834.html

    (Sorry if this has already been posted, but I looked first, honest!)

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    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    "Presedate with Rau of course that the picture circles of the objectives also distinguish." Blimey. Who said computers can't translate into clear English? That is meant to be English, right?
    Last edited by stephengilbert; 25th April 2009 at 13:12.

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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    Just in case you guys missed it, there's a bit of 3D-ness here:

    http://www.arca-shop.de/download/3D/ArcaR3d_2.mov

    I didn't put this in the first post as I was using an alternative OS and it wasn't working - I wanted to try it first. And it does!

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    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    That's pretty cool. A picture that's worth a thousand words.

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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    "Presedate with Rau of course that the picture circles of the objectives also distinguish." Blimey. Who said computers can't translate into clear English? That is meant to be English, right?
    I tried a few more online translators; some were definitely better than others, but they all missed in quite a few places. If you could take the best bits from each you might end up with something coherent.

    Mind you, we are talking about an interview with a technical slant - the translators would possibly fare better with plainer speech.

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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    I am going to check it out..

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    I'll believe it when a member here actually has a working model with desired lenses in their own hands...
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    Arca Swiss is such a weird weird weird company - I am fascinated! LOL

    I called the Australian distributor this morning - they are in Perth 4000kms away on other side of Australia. they promised to get back to me ..hahaha maybe I will hear tomorrow!

    Th ecamea 'looks' the real deal..nodal point shooting easier than others..compact in built elegant looking tilt..and a hell of lot chaeper than teh Sinar arTec.

    I want to try one out.

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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    .....
    Th ecamea 'looks' the real deal..nodal point shooting easier than others..compact in built elegant looking tilt..and a hell of lot chaeper than teh Sinar arTec.

    I want to try one out.
    IMO the advantage of the Sinar is the sliding adapter with integrated loupe. I would think if one wants to tilt often and to precisly focus this would be more compfortable than switching between groundglass and digiback manually.
    Last edited by Paratom; 28th April 2009 at 07:05.

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    I'll believe it when a member here actually has a working model with desired lenses in their own hands...
    I vote for Jack being first!


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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    Me too. Someone from Arca send Jack this camera and let him test it for all of us. No marketing but a real user report is what forum members want to hear.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    That's pretty cool. A picture that's worth a thousand words.
    The translation is difficult at best.

    The picture does help, although I couldn't figure out what was missing, until seeing Guy's post.

    The camera needs to be photographed attached to Jack's Cube!

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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    IMO the advantage of the Sinar is the sliding adapter with integrated loupe. I would think if one wants to tilt often and to precisly focus this would be more compfortable than switching between groundglass and digiback manually.
    The R-Line has a built-in
    Micro-Precision helical focus mount, onto which a rich
    selection of high-performance lenses can be attached through
    an exclusive bayonet mount. Subject distance and depth-offield
    can be measured electronically and displayed on an LCD.
    Leveling is done either electronically or through precise spirit
    levels. The unique viewer, Vario-Finder, is for lenses with a
    focal length from 23 to 210mm.
    The Rm3d and the RL3d have
    individual self-locking AIP shift movements for the X and Y
    axes, which are in the same film plane. Additionally, the cameras
    offer a tilt mechanism for optimizing sharpness.


    I am making inquiries about what exactly is meant by 'measured electronically and displayed on an LCD'. I am also interested to find out exactly what the difference is between the various RM types..

    The arTec is a nice piece of equipment and now has a gear driven tilt function (lack of which was a flaw in the original design)

    In either case I am unconvinced about using a fresnel with 3X magnifying loop to achieve anything much - the viewing area is too small. Another concern I have with the Sinar is the actual sliding device - more complexity = more that can go wrong.

    Finally - I am not a big fan of the Sinar's point of attachment to a tripod. I dont need their built in rotating base...which makes the mounting of panorama rails and nodal point rails - less than elegant and in fact down right ungainly.

    At any rate it isnt rocket science focusing wides on technical cameras - if you get a chance have a look at the distance scales on Schneider or a Rodenstock - you will see what I mean. Also I find DOF tables amazingly insightful...eg what do you think the DOF of 'acceptable focus' is with a 35mm Schneider at F11?

    I am hoping that Arca's eccentric lack of web site and readily available information - may be one of those contra indicator situations - where the company's deficiency in one area is more than made up by the excellence of the product.

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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Subject distance and depth-offield
    can be measured electronically and displayed on an LCD.
    Leveling is done either electronically or through precise spirit
    levels. The unique viewer, Vario-Finder, is for lenses with a
    focal length from 23 to 210mm.

    I am making inquiries about what exactly is meant by 'measured electronically and displayed on an LCD'.
    Peter,

    I'm not sure which bits these are, but there are more pictures of what you are talking about here:

    http://www.arca-shop.de/download/Bilder/arca_8.jpg
    http://www.arca-shop.de/download/Bilder/arca_9.jpg
    http://www.arca-shop.de/download/Bilder/arca_10.jpg
    http://www.arca-shop.de/download/Bilder/arca_12.jpg

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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    Thanks for the link - I didnt see the download section in that shop ...I guess one must have an account there?

    The viewfinder looks like it has a handy DOF table attached ...interesting..

    [email protected]

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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Thanks for the link - I didnt see the download section in that shop ...I guess one must have an account there?

    The viewfinder looks like it has a handy DOF table attached ...interesting..

    [email protected]
    No account, just dig a little... the links are in the German pages.

    I thought the DOF table was the scrolling part below the finder, but haven't yet thought what the tables on the top are, especially if it has an LCD readout?

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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    I am also interested to find out exactly what the difference is between the various RM types..
    I couldn't work out what you meant by this, then I remembered: if you're looking at the shop pictures, they seem to be showing a picture of the Rm3d on the Rl3d page also.

    The Rl3d is 5x4, but I have not yet seen anything to show how the 'system' will work.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    Call me cynical, but I'll believe it when one of our members here has a working copy in their own hands...

    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    Jury is out on anything from Arca Jack - even the distributors down here are frustrated re communication and they have been working with teh compnay for 30 years!.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    Have I mentioned I'll believe it when one of us actually has it in our hands?

    ()
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    Just an update - I am working on getting an example in my hands to try out. This may take a couple of months - as the company is apparently about to start shipping a few in the next few weeks.

    The camera apparently also is able to incorporate the arca sliding back so that you focus on the ground glass and then move the digi back over if you want to focus using ground glass versus 'guestimate'

    as an aside - there are two verions of the camera for different Film sizes - One version is able to take a 4x5 film back.

    The Sinar arTec looks like it has been more purpoosefully designed for digital capture...however - even though I have a Sinar 75LV I dont understand why I cant get an H adaptor and use the back from my H3D11-39. etc etc then when you look at teh Sinar offers - you see that if you are existing owner of a Sinar back - you cant buy teh artec at the same price ( less back) as being offered to peopel buying both.

    These companies are very weird in the way they treat existing customers..very very weird - almost as if to say ( sometimes) hahahah we gotcha!

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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    Update - I am no longer interested in the Arca Swiss system - it does not give me what the arTec system gives.

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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Update - I am no longer interested in the Arca Swiss system - it does not give me what the arTec system gives.
    Peter,

    Please elucidate.

    One thing I have realised about the R series and the Artec relates to longer lenses; by applying tilt at the lens board, you are effectively offsetting the lens from centre - this may or may not add complications to other aspects of usage.

    Graham.

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    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    Good news Jack, the Arca won the Red Dot design award. http://www.largeformatphotography.in...ad.php?t=47993

    I am fairly confident that two or three of these cameras exist. There is even a photog in D.C. who claims to use one. (http://asmp.org/culture/bestof2008/H...nder/index.php) There just isn't any way to buy one.

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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by shakeshuck View Post
    Peter,

    Please elucidate.

    One thing I have realised about the R series and the Artec relates to longer lenses; by applying tilt at the lens board, you are effectively offsetting the lens from centre - this may or may not add complications to other aspects of usage.

    Graham.
    Focusing is by Fresnel - but that means adding MFD back after focus ..Or add an Arca Swiss sliding holder - which then totally defeats the original design advantage ( size)

    The arTec has inbuilt sliding system as well as a superior focusing system not requiring dark cloth - the 3X magnifier slides all over the focusing glass in its own dark cover ..more elegant system.

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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    I played with a working RM3d with the electronic focusing and leveling thingy at the show this past weekend. Maybe I can clarify a few things. Firstly, the electronic wismo is not necessary to use the camera - it is an add on. Specifically what it does is twofold:

    1) It has a distance measuring device which tells you in feet or meters, how far away the object you are trying to focus is. It is an ultrasonic rangefinder measuring device. There is a sensor in the helical focus mount that is also connected. When the distance the sensor is reading meets with the distance the helical focusing sensor is reading, a green LED illuminates telling you are "on". It's really cool how it works - you can see a readout of the distance you are focused on change as you turn the focus ring. Course' using a 35xl @ f16, you've got so much dof to begin with, I'm not sure how necessary it is.

    The other issue is, using the ultrasonic rangefinder, as opposed to a laser, means you are averaging over a wider area. Shooting a building would be no problem. Landscapes, however, might be - how do you tell if it is seeing the rock 5 feet in front of you or the mountain at infinity? Course' I haven't tried one in the field, so maybe it works great. I just don't know.

    2) It has 4 LED's laid out in a diamond pattern. As you level the camera, they turn on or off, depending on which direction it is tilted. When all of them go off, it is level.

    Again, I've been using a Cambo WDS professionally for 4 years with none of this electronic trickery, and it works just fine. That being said, do I want one? Hell yea! It's really cool looking camera.

    I got an hour long demo of it at the show, so if I can answer any questions, fire away.

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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    Oh, and I wanted to add a few things to my last post:

    Viewfinder - the nicest one I've seen. It is bright with very little distortion. The cool part, however, is twofold: 1) it zooms to match the focal length of the lens you are using. 2) it has a mask that is held on by magnets. The mask has holes in it that allow you to see the amount of rise and fall you are applying, which, in turn, can then be applied to the camera. In other words, add, for instance, 10mm of rise to the viewfinder, then apply the same amount to the camera and the shot is the same in both. Very cool

    Tilts - built into the camera, not the lens panel. Therefore all of your lenses have tilt ability. Same thing with the helical mount. One benefit is that you can also have a traditional view camera that uses the same lenses. Actually, Martin, the Arca rep, showed me how you could get a rear standard, a rail and some bellows and they hook right on to the RM3d, essentially making it the front standard.

    All in all, pretty cool, assuming you can actually get one....

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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    One question has been nagging at me since I first saw the rm3d video at Luminous Landscape:

    How does the tilt mechanism interact with the focus? Does the focus distance correspond to the centerline of the image, or somewhere else?

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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by chmilar View Post
    One question has been nagging at me since I first saw the rm3d video at Luminous Landscape:

    How does the tilt mechanism interact with the focus? Does the focus distance correspond to the centerline of the image, or somewhere else?
    I don't know that the electronic focus finder takes tilts into account, but I didn't ask. I can tell you my solution, but I don't think everybody would accept this as an acceptable one. I always shoot tethered to a laptop. I don't trust anything other than viewing the image at 100% on the screen personally. Course' I've got clients to please, which changes the equation for my purposes. Your milage may vary....

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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by chmilar View Post
    One question has been nagging at me since I first saw the rm3d video at Luminous Landscape:

    How does the tilt mechanism interact with the focus? Does the focus distance correspond to the centerline of the image, or somewhere else?
    i believe so !

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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    I am working on getting more detailed information from Arca-Swiss on the Rm3d so we can post and keep everyone informed. We will post it ASAP. Steve and I were fortunate to get a demo from Martin at Photo Expo in NY. It's a very nice system and I can't wait to get one in hand and test it.


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    Re: Rm3d here for real?

    I am working on getting a definitive answer from Arca-Swiss on how the new focus system will interact with the tilt mechanism. Attached you will find a press release from Arca on the Rm3d and a spec sheet.

    Chris Lawery (e-mail Me)
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