Phase One P40 Plus back

[jmvdigital]

Did I miss something?

From a Luminous Landscape RSS feed...

"Several dealers let the cat out of the bag a couple of days ago (tsk, tsk) but Phase One has today officially announced, and has available for immediate delivery, their latest medium format back, the P40+ with Sensor+. This is a 40 Megapixel back."

I can't find any info on here or on Phase's site.

 

[Graham Mitchell]

Re: P40+?

No, you didn't miss anything. It's official. Judging by the thread on LL most people are underwhelmed by this back. I guess they were hoping for a giant leap forward and it is basically "only" an incremental upgrade over the P30+. Same sensor size and LCD size as the P30+. Faster frame rate, a bt more resolution, and greater ability to be used on view cameras.

 

[kdphotography]

Re: P40+?

You would think people could hold judgment a bit until the digital back actually hits the pavement and is in somebody's hands to test..... The LL thread seemed pretty negative (prematurely) to me.....

 

[Graham Mitchell]

Re: P40+?

You would think people could hold judgment a bit until the digital back actually hits the pavement and is in somebody's hands to test..... The LL thread seemed pretty negative (prematurely) to me.....

The performance doesn't seem to be the issue. No-one has any reason to think it will perform differently to Phase's other backs. it is the specifications which is the problem for some people.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Re: P40+?

Just waiting for Doug to send the official press release over to post , than we should have ALL the details. Too me it just gives us another back option like it or not it does serve a need for some shooters.

 

[Alexander Bauer]

Re: P40+?

No, you didn't miss anything. It's official. Judging by the thread on LL most people are underwhelmed by this back. I guess they were hoping for a giant leap forward and it is basically "only" an incremental upgrade over the P30+. Same sensor size and LCD size as the P30+. Faster frame rate, a bt more resolution, and greater ability to be used on view cameras.

I thought it was Dalsa sensor no long exposure?

if it is the same sensor, the same features, the same screen then it is the
same box practically except 9 more million pixels for US$ 20,000.00
or US$ 19,000.00

so basically we should all be amazed and go sell/TRADE our stuff to upgrade for what, 9 Million pixels ?

whats next for Phase One, Cover on the HUSTLER Magazine

 

[carstenw]

Re: P40+?

Well, I don't think that anyone should assume that they are the target market for this back until Phase confirms that. I expect that Phase is aiming this more at P25+ users (and smaller) rather than P30+ users. The back may also well replace the P30+, or the latter may drop in price to compete better with Hasselblad.

 

[dougpeterson]

Re: P40+?

No, you didn't miss anything. It's official.

Just FYI details will be "public" tomorrow and until then the P40+ is supposed to be a secret. Well with two different forums and several photo-new sites already talking about it...

I'll see you all back here tomorrow after the "official" launch.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up

 

[dougpeterson]

Re: P40+?

Given that the cat is out of the bag we've decided to go ahead and post our

Product Page
Test Page (includes two full-res files for download)

Hope our server doesn't crash :-/.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up

 

[Graham Mitchell]

Re: P40+?

Given that the cat is out of the bag we've decided to go ahead and post our

Product Page

Doug, thanks for posting those samples.

Sorry to nitpick but on that page it is written:
"The P40+ packs the same jaw dropping 12.5 stops of dynamic range as the flagship P65+, the highest dynamic range in medium format digital (and light years ahead of any dSLRs)."

But...the Nikon D3X seems to have over 13 stops as well as some others:
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/DxOMark-Sensor/(appareil)/D3X/(metrics)/

 

[Rethmeier]

Re: P40+?

(and light years ahead of any dSLRs) LOL

 

[Alexander Bauer]

Re: P40+?

to tell you the truth I'm sick of the past and future MFDB marketing and pricing games
and all of their software issues.

I hope they will wake up soon

I'm sorry but I had to quote myself from another thread here lol...

 

[Steve Hendrix]

Re: P40+?

I thought it was Dalsa sensor no long exposure?

if it is the same sensor, the same features, the same screen then it is the
same box practically except 9 more million pixels for US$ 20,000.00
or US$ 19,000.00

so basically we should all be amazed and go sell/TRADE our stuff to upgrade for what, 9 Million pixels ?

whats next for Phase One, Cover on the HUSTLER Magazine

Other than the admittedly disappointing LCD screen, I'm having a hard time uinderstanding the modest reaction.

This product is not aimed at replacing a particular model. It is aimed at anyone who desires faster capture and good high ISO. Other than a P21+ or a P65+, this back is significantly faster than any other Phase One digital back (and most other digital backs as well).

It's all about speed. If you don't have a need for speed, then maybe you shouldn't consider it. Speed is the headline.

However, it is the 3rd highest resolution digital back on the market, works well on view cameras, and performs well at high ISO. It also has sensor plus technology, although at 10MP, this will be of limited value to some. And the pricing is below the P45+.

High resolution digital backs have either been slow capturing or record noisy high ISO images and have cost significantly more than the $19,990 P40+. For those reasons I see this product as establishing a new benchmark for value compared to other digital backs.

Whether one wishes to upgrade is a personal choice. We put out products that we feel are worthy of consideration if their core features are what you're after.




Steve Hendrix
Phase One

 

[ddk]

Re: P40+?

Other than the admittedly disappointing LCD screen, I'm having a hard time uinderstanding the modest reaction.

This product is not aimed at replacing a particular model. It is aimed at anyone who desires faster capture and good high ISO. Other than a P21+ or a P65+, this back is significantly faster than any other Phase One digital back (and most other digital backs as well).

It's all about speed. If you don't have a need for speed, then maybe you shouldn't consider it. Speed is the headline.

However, it is the 3rd highest resolution digital back on the market, works well on view cameras, and performs well at high ISO. It also has sensor plus technology, although at 10MP, this will be of limited value to some. And the pricing is below the P45+.

High resolution digital backs have either been slow capturing or record noisy high ISO images and have cost significantly more than the $19,990 P40+. For those reasons I see this product as establishing a new benchmark for value compared to other digital backs.

Whether one wishes to upgrade is a personal choice. We put out products that we feel are worthy of consideration if their core features are what you're after.




Steve Hendrix
Phase One

I see the speed specs any information on the buffer depth?

 

[BradleyGibson]

Re: P40+?

Other than the admittedly disappointing LCD screen, I'm having a hard time uinderstanding the modest reaction.

Steve, what I think we're seeing is pent-up frustration at Phase and/or the MFDB industry bleeding over into this product announcement. IMHO, some folks feel (rightly or wrongly) that they haven't been listened to in one respect or another, and when a new product is announced that doesn't have <insert personal gripe here>, I think you're seeing a reaction to that.

By "gripes", I refer to oft-mentioned feature requests such as D3X quality & size screen, back-based live view, clean high ISO (high=6400+), long exposure, 'fat' sensels, etc.

I can't say I agree with all of the gripes, and even for those that resonate with me, I am not surprised that they didn't ALL get fixed with this one new product.

As I wrote over on L-L, the frustrating pre-announcement problem (also a popular gripe) was addressed this time around, as has the 40-megapixel price point.

While I think the frustration is very real, I think it being directed at the P40+ is a bit of a red herring.

Just my 2 cents,
-Brad

 

[Henry Goh]

Re: P40+?

Steve,

Bradley is quite right in his observation.

Phase will continue to get hammered until that LCD is changed.
The same happened to Nikon when they could not get a camera out that was able to produce clean images at high ISO. Model after model they got hammered until D3 came out then it all stopped.

 

[georgl]

Re: P40+?

It was problematic to use bright and big screens because of heat directly behind the (also big and energy-consuming) CCD. But I think that's a problem with the new LED-backlight?

"But...the Nikon D3X seems to have over 13 stops as well as some others:"

DXO uses a very... strange way to measure DR. It's not that simple, especially when you manipulate the RAW-data (clean noisy shadows) some guys here with profound understanding of RAW and DR technical-background wrote about it here before, it's worth reading.

Try a D3 or D3X and compare it to a MFDB and then you will see who has the higher DR...

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Re: P40+?

I personally put very little stock in those DXO numbers. To me there just flat out a lot of important data that is not even being measured. I do know when Jack and I tested the P25,45 and 65 Plus backs we did notice more DR as we went up the ladder from each back with the 65 having the biggest range of DR. Not by miles but about 1/3 stop between them. Since the P40 plus is based on that same sensor I would assume ( hoping to test it) that we are looking at the same results as the 65 which was damn powerful in overall DR. Now for me that is reality DR and i would go by those stats more than anything from software. LOL

I'm sure the D3x must be good but we are in different ball parks here. So personally I just don't buy there results on that. Any MF back is going to have better DR is just my belief.

 

[Bob]

Re: P40+?

I love to techno-babble more than most, but the bottom line for me is to look at the files.
I HATED the D3 files and was not able to get ONE decent image out of the thing.
The files looked like they had already been screened and offset printed right out of the camera. No noise mind you, but no mojo either.
Other than some high-key exceptions, every image needs black, and if you raw-convert and sharpen carefully, then my M8 images are all more satisfying than my D3 images.
THE EXCEPTION BEING:
When I am shooting in very very low light with moving subjects or hand-held (both somewhat rare for me except for pets and grandchildren). Then it is a matter of getting any image at all, so the 5DII comes out.

So what is developing is a case of the right hammer for the right screw.
Technical cameras suck at action, even if the sensor were perfect, but I love them for a lot of applications.
So unless your initials are KR and you only shoot jpgs, then I am afraid that there are more than one perfect camera depending on the situation.

Now I believe that it is slowly becoming technically possible for digital backs to get multiple personalities with firmware-driven hardware options such as you are beginning to see with Sensor+; but we are all prisoners of physics, human factors, and imaging situations which dictate choice and variety in our tools.
-bob

 

[Graham Mitchell]

Re: P40+?

I personally put very little stock in those DXO numbers.

I agree that their analysis might not tell the whole story, and I'm using medium fomat digital myself, but I don't think it is accurate to say a digital back with 12.5 stops of DR is "light years ahead of any dSLRs".