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Thread: P30 Plus Noise test

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    P30 Plus Noise test

    Well you knew it was coming and i shot the same spot previous on the P25 Plus . Before we get into this . I did pick up a stop my previous 800 looks identical to the P30+ 1600. Yes a touch of smearing as expected but still a very usable ISO . And frankly I don't give a care how it gets there with all the mumbo jumbo just that I can shoot it. I also did this under the worse light around tungsten and if noise is going to show this is the worst but I don't test for pretty. I want the worst conditions that hit me. Otherwise you don't know what you got to play with. Here is a Full frame at 1600 with the 28mm . Also going to put the ISO 100 crop in here as well so thing line up nice on posts
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    BTW I turned the Luminance down to ZERO all processed in C1 4.8

    Here they come 200,400,800 and 1600
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Certainly 400 is excellent on the P30 + than it will go gradually 800 at 100 percent looks pretty darn good. 1600 is holding on but not for dear life and i will be using it under stage lighting a lot actually coming in two weeks.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    I also did NO lens corrections either.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Okay same thing just different local

    FF and Iso 100. This was set at daylight on the back
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Okay again 200,400,800 and 1600
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Overall I think pretty good . Maybe more equivalent to a Nikon at 3200 or something like that for 1600. Not sure but it seems pretty good and how often do we use things at 100 percent. LOL

    Sometimes I think we pixel peep too much but that is okay good to know what you can and cannot do . Obviously if your in the crappier grab a Nikon or Canon. I could most likely improve it with more luminance for sure and fine tune more. I am slightly under on both series by about a 1/4 of a stop. The 28mm reads more space so you have to be careful of highlights in the frame.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Might be underestimating the ISO 800 here . It looks better than I thought on this second series. Any thoughts folks something I am not seeing. Oh end of test
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    I think you hit it on the head --- more detail in the 400 and under, a bit less at 800, and less still at 1600. But as you said, very usable 1600 which is what you were after!

    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Exactly. What is pretty neat here is when it counts a lot 400 will give you two extra stops when your pushed against the wall on a ad campaign when you really need the big file
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    I was going to post the same thing: 400 looks very good, 800 usable, 1600 in a pinch, IMO. Though I would avoid 1600 when I could (duh). Just guessing, but they (the 1600 ISO shots) don't look so messy that they'd not clean up pretty nicely.

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Guy,

    For most event and PR work where you'd be needing the ISO1600, it certainly looks more than acceptable for all of those who will be peeking at it and passing judgement on it.

    Kurt

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Agreed and that was my criteria was that stuff was my concern and it seems fine for it. Thanks guy's
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Good work Guy, thank you.

    May I ask how far away from camera is the toaster? I'm trying to figure out how useful the 28mm will be for me.

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Guy,
    Have to add to the other's comments. Things look solid through ISO 400. ISO 800 is starting to lose some of the blacks and get more noise, but far more acceptable than most MF stuff anybody shoots at 800. The 1600 shots are showing even more disintegration of the blacks mostly, but still very acceptable. If you hit with a bit of NR, and maybe move the black point up a notch or so, it would be a very usable shot for what you are looking to cover. The details are holding, but the "pop" is going away a bit at 800 and a bit more at 1600, but still very usable.

    Now, just get the firmware updated on the camera, and you should be cooking there. Also, I would still consider shooting a bigger WB target and setting a custom WB if you have the chance. These look good, but I still think it worth tuning the WB before you shoot, and getting the exposure tuned in also. Just suggestions. I have started to find that bit of extra on the front end makes everything come out nicer in processing.

    LJ

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Guy,

    Is that Jergens lotion the secret to your firm, youthful skin?

    Steve

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Little playing around here , raised the color and luminance levels some and added a touch of black
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Unfortunately, that increased the noise relative to the first 1600 frame above, at least in the hairbrush and the wood cabinets... IMO the first conversion is superior.
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Probably never notice this in a 8x10 and for event stuff all you will ever need. Even the 800 is better than the P25+ and actually 800 is more normal for this stuff. I would most likely use 1600 when there is just no hope. I guess if I really wanted to work it Noise Ninja or something like that could fine tune this pretty well. Maybe D-Fine. I should send this raw to Jack to run D-fine on it, just to see how it does. I'm not a big noise reduction user
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Yea I think so too bud. First one was at Zero luminance and color at 40 . Second one was at 23 and 57
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    hmmm....hard to tell, but it looks like the "grain" came up just a bit compared to your first posting. You are starting to chew into the detail a bit, but it is still fairly acceptable for ISO 1600 on a MF back. I do think the DSLRs will hold a bit more at this ISO, but they too start to see some of the DR compression at those higher ISOs, and they also tend to smear the detail more.

    Not as familiar with the NR in C1, as I like using Nik Software Dfine instead, but you should be able to tune things with a bit more testing.

    Thanks for sharing these. Always good to see tough/practical testing of the kinds of things that may actually wind up in the final images from shoots.

    LJ

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Hold it my bad I hit a sharpness setting by accident . Okay back to normal on that and 23 and 57 settings
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Okay the original file again
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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Here is your first 1600 jpeg with DFine run at auto. IMO it looks darn good especially considering it's done to a jpeg, and even considering the slight loss of detail I think it's an improvement -- and any way you slice it, it is still lots better than dropping down to 1/4 the original resolution to get there I think! :
    Jack
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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Actually, couple things look different. The original appears to have a bit different tint than the corrected shot. And, I actually like the original a bit more. It seems to hold up nicely without much effort, but the blacks are starting to break up just a bit. Despite the tungsten lighting, there is enough light overall to give a decent capture. The kitchen shots are a bit different story, as there was just lest light in those to start.

    LJ

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Jack,
    I like this treatment. It does smooth things a bit more, especially in the wood cabinets, but it does yield a very nice overall result. I also strongly agree that the 31MP at ISO 1600 is preferred to the 10MP at ISO 1600 that you might get with Sensor+ on the P40+ back. Just my opinion, but I like how this one turned out with Dfine.

    LJ

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Looks like maybe the noise is getting sharpened too. Maybe kick the sharpening down, then despeckle or run it through d-fine, etc., then sharpen for output in PS. (?)

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Man, I post slow. I was replying to Guy's sample before Jack's go at it. Sheesh.

    I like what Jack is getting towards here as well.

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Man that D Fine is really good. Plus that is done to the jpeg no less. What bugs me the most on noise is the color. I don't mind the noise so much but when you have color noise it's like 3 times worse to me.

    Interesting this is supposed to be a old sensor. Yea right. Nothing old when the output is damn good and that goes for the 25 and 45 along with the Hassy 31 and 39 sensors .
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Here is your first 1600 jpeg with DFine run at auto. IMO it looks darn good especially considering it's done to a jpeg, and even considering the slight loss of detail I think it's an improvement -- and any way you slice it, it is still lots better than dropping down to 1/4 the original resolution to get there I think! :
    Yes but the loss of detail is more smoothness but the damn type is still very sharp with detail. Amazing how we can read this so well
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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    I bet after the D Fine you kicked the sharpness back up a touch maybe about the best you can get.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    the tell for me is the detail in the stone backsplash in the kitchen shots and the black register lines near the knobs on the range. looks like zones 2 and 3 suffer

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Lets play with that one. Give me until my second espresso. LOL
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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Okay kids let's play . I put both 1600 in a zip file so you can download and play around

    https://www.yousendit.com/transfer.p...R3MzeUxIRGc9PQ

    Would love to see a comparison on D-fine , noise ninja if someone had both programs.
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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Wow, I mean wow. It's utter garbage in ACR but in C1 it's more than useable even after pushing it 0.9 of a stop. Set Luminance to 15 and the file looks better than iso 800 film. Quite a bit better actually. I'd love to use that back for wedding portraiture work knowing that I had a very useable iso 400 even if I underexpose to hold the whites. Any of these medium format systems have good TTL flash systems?
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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    I'd love to use that back for wedding portraiture work knowing that I had a very useable iso 400 even if I underexpose to hold the whites. Any of these medium format systems have good TTL flash systems?
    Short answer: yes, using a Metz adapter. See the article below for pics and model numbers.

    Capture Integration Article On MF TTL

    Doug

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    I just worked up the raws and here are my settings:

    Exposure is dead on, leave it at zero. WB is fine, or adjust slightly to taste. I used all of the default lens corrections for the Mamiya 28 and checked (applied) sharpness falloff too. On the levels slider I moved black point up to 4, and the midtone slider to - 0.06 (left) -- this increases both low end contrast and midtone brightness; highlight recovery to 10 to balance upper toines; sharpening at our standard of 98/0.4/2; NR to Lum 30, color at 40. The next step is clarity to 50.

    To my eyes, the files pop and look great, no added NR needed! And they still hold great detail as I can see crumbs on your table and minor scratches in your cabinet drawers as well as the wood grain, and even an errant thread sticking out of the hand-towel at the far right in the bathroom shot.

    Jack
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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Okay we fired the maid.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    I will try all that my friend. LOL Guess I need to clean too
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Interesting NR issue cropped up in C1 -- my settings seem to go away if I touch the color slider! Anyway, sent an email off to C1 tech guru supreme Doug Peterson to see wtf is up!

    Here is a screenshot from the tiffs straight out of C1, opened in Photoshop. Both conversions of the same raw file using the exact same C1 settings as I indicated above. Only difference is for the one on the left I didn't move the color slider off 40, but for the one on the right, I first moved the color NR slider up to 50, then back down to 40!
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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Confirmed with Jack having the same issue in 4.8 on the same files
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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Where the heck is Doug when we need him?
    Jack
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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Where's Doug?

    It's Friday.

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Right, Stephen. Since it's Friday evening Doug should be able to spend all his time between now and late Sunday here with us before he needs to get back to work at C-I. I can think of nothing that should be a distraction for a twenty-something guy in South Beach that would keep him away from GetDPI! What gives??!! I don't get it!


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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    What is this the sales model? Just way too clean; around here we say that dust is a protective coating.

    I can see you really love the back - much the same feeling that I had when I first got mine.

    Again congratulations Guy!

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    I have 4.6, no problems when changing the colour. Why am I seeing the need for a plus almost stop of exposure Jack if it's perfect? My screen is dead on for print. I am however a complete newby with C1 though.
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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Dale,

    Perhaps Doug is having computer problems.

    Steve

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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Yeah, Steve, I was thinking the same thing. Maybe we should call someone to check on him to see if he's OK.


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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    Doug is processing the files now. My server blocked his e-mail asking for the raw. Spam filters don't always work very good. Turned it off at the server level
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  50. #50
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    Re: P30 Plus Noise test

    My body is at Phase right now they got it this morning for the Firmware update from 1.0 to 1.5 which will take a extra step to update but should be home Wednesday or Thursday. Nice turn time without a rush being applied.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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