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Thread: Wide angle lenses on Phamiya 645

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    Wide angle lenses on Phamiya 645

    Can anyone tell me how the newer D wide lenses like the 45mm D and 28mm D stack up. Normally I would expect a lens like the 45mm to be sharper than the 28mm but seeing Guy's 28mm images, I get the impression that the 28mm is probably optically better. Further, I would also expect the 45mm 2.8D to be sharper than its predecessor.

    Would I be wrong in my assumptions? Any comparative samples from those who own these lenses?

    Thanks.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Wide angle lenses on Phamiya 645

    The first batch of 45mm D that hit the states they did not measure up very well. Jack bought one and was not satisfied. Now i am very tempted to buy one myself and hopefully since it's release a couple months ago things have changed. But I really want this lens. I was going to sell my 35 and 55 for it. My kit would than be 28, 45,80,150 and 300 which is just about perfect spacing. I do think now with the P30+ the 28 is a must lens. About a 23mm in 35mm FF viewing
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    Re: Wide angle lenses on Phamiya 645

    Hi Guy,

    I just received my 45mm 2.8D a few hours ago and after I left work, I drove to an old airbase left behind by the British forces. I shot only 1 frame to see how good my 45mm lens is. Here is the image.

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    Re: Wide angle lenses on Phamiya 645

    Damn that looks good Henry. Okay you need to run some tests for us. LOL

    BTW where did you get it
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Wide angle lenses on Phamiya 645

    Guy I bought it from a dealer who shipped to me from Hong Kong. Great price and came within 2 days or so. I'm really pleased. I also bought a 12mm extension ring from him. Next I'll probably buy the 150mm 2.8D or the 75-150mm 4.5D.

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    Re: Wide angle lenses on Phamiya 645

    Tough call on the 70-150 and the 150 2.8 . If you really need the speed the 2.8 is the one but for landscape shooters I would most likely go for the 70-150. Let Jack tell you more he just got the 70-150 and has the 150 also. I think he is torn on it also on which he like better.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Wide angle lenses on Phamiya 645

    My take is most MF lenses need to close down to at least 5.6 to get nice sharpness. The better longer lenses can get away with f4. So unless I need to shoot with plenty of blurred background, I won't be able to shoot open most times. In this respect, the f4.5 lens will be better wide open and having seen some shots on this site from the zoom lens, I tend to favor it over the 150mm f2.8D. The only negative thing about it is the additional weight.

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Wide angle lenses on Phamiya 645

    The 75-150mm is the lens I keep on my Phase 645AF most----fantastic lens in studio and out. And yes, is great for landscapes. If there are any corner shoftness issues with the 28mm, it is not a problem with the slight crop of the P30+, and is a fantastic lens. The 75-150 gives me more flexibility for the types of photography I do....but I would still like to have the 150 f/2.8....

    My take on the new "D" series lenses is like this: There are two types of D series lenses. The first are ones like the 28mm, 150mm, 75-150mm that are all-new. They are stunners in performance, and have the price-tag to match the new glass. Worth the price of admission.

    The second type of D series lenses seem to be more spit-shined, placed in a nicer barrel, including the nice AF-MF ring switch. Similar in performance to the previous generation of respective Mamiya lens focal length (good but not stunners), but now with the new D series price. *ouch* To be fair, they also include two more electronic contact points for the faster cpu processor/information, like their stunner brethern, the 28mm, 150mm, and 75-150mm.

    I'd keep my check book out if Mamiya/Phase manufactured an entirely *new* D series with all new glass for the 35mm and the touted "Hartblei" designed 45mm t/s (probably to be a spit-shined version).

    120mm and 150 f/2.8 remain on my wanted-list....

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    Re: Wide angle lenses on Phamiya 645

    I agree w/Ken except now days my checkbook strolls over to the Schneider lens department.

    I had the 28 and 75-150 and both were stellar lens for landscape work and would have them still today if not for the Cambo RS.

    Don
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    Re: Wide angle lenses on Phamiya 645

    Agree with you Ken about P30+ cropping out the softer corners.

    I would prefer and AF 120mm macro. Currently I'm using my Hasselblad macro lens on Phamiya and am quite pleased with the results. An AF version would give me more use for short tele work

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    Re: Wide angle lenses on Phamiya 645

    Don, does the wide 24mm or 28mm give any color cast problems if I used them with a P30+ back on Cambo or Alpa? I'm getting itchy watching you go to Cambo LOL.

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    Re: Wide angle lenses on Phamiya 645

    Henry

    Sad to say however the P30+ won't work on a technical camera. I have read that it will work to a very limited degree on some longer lens but not the wide; that's what made me move from the P30+ to the P45+.

    Don
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    Re: Wide angle lenses on Phamiya 645

    Hmm time to start planning for that P65+

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    Re: Wide angle lenses on Phamiya 645

    Call Chris and please mention my name
    Don Libby
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    Re: Wide angle lenses on Phamiya 645

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Goh View Post
    Guy I bought it from a dealer who shipped to me from Hong Kong. Great price and came within 2 days or so. I'm really pleased. I also bought a 12mm extension ring from him. Next I'll probably buy the 150mm 2.8D or the 75-150mm 4.5D.
    Hi,

    I live in Hong Kong and THE one place to buy Mamiya here is direct from the agent http://www.sellenhk.com/. They sell in/at their office only and for cash only (do not ship overseas), but at lowest price here and excellent service. Their warranty is valid in Hong Kong, China and Macao. All shops in Hong Kong call them and order from them when a purchaser steps in, and shops prices are higher than Sellen. The shops advertising on Ebay etc are even higher priced than normal shops. For shopping by internet you might try contacting www.tincheungcamera.com.hk that is a real shop with proper address and not only small internet shop, but bear in mind that they also import certain goods direct from Japan, thus warranty can at times be a question mark.

    Just for reference, when I bought my 28mm from Sellen about one year ago the price was around 3,500 usd. Their prices shift based on currency exchange with Japan.

    Regards
    Anders
    Last edited by Anders_HK; 7th May 2009 at 07:05.

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    Re: Wide angle lenses on Phamiya 645

    My .02...

    I think the 28D is "good enough" in the corners for serious use on full frame backs, but it is very wide at about an equivalent of 19mm so may be overkill unless you need really wide. On a crop back, IMO it moves into the "must have" category as THE wide at about a 23.

    I have a very good copy of the 35 AF (about a 25 on FF), but to clarify it is not in the same league as say the 55 prime. Also both the 28D and 45D are sharper and show better contrast centrally, but my 35 is better in the very corners than either on FF, and since I don't shoot that wide very often, this 35 remains my wide of choice.

    The 45D, at least every one I've tried, has useless corners on a full frame back. However, this is the very corner and should not even show up on crop backs, so it becomes a very useful focal there. The ones I tested were as sharp in the center as the 55, so excellent, but if you needed to crop out the corners for a full frame back you'd be back to almost the 55 FoV. We need a new design (clutched) 55 AND a re-design on the 45 that keeps it sharp to the corners on FF.

    The 75-150 and 150/2.8 debate... The 150D is such a phenomenal lens it is very tough to part with once you've shot with it. The 150/3.5 doesn't ever really match it, being less sharp and showing lower contrast at the wider apertures, though gets pretty close at f8 and f11. By comparison the 2.8 lens is as sharp AND contrasty wide open as it is at f8, just with less DoF, and shows a bit of falloff wide open at 2.8 that can be used creatively. I know that is a strong statement, but ask anybody else that owns one and they'll tell you the same thing. It is the best lens I have ever owned for MF period, and FWIW, my 80D is not far behind it.

    The D zoom is very good too. It needs to be stopped down to f5.6 and is sharpest at f8 and 11, and does give up contrast in the upper half of the zoom range, especially when compared to the 150/2.8 even stopped down. That said, it is the lens that is mounted to the camera most of the time as it is just so versatile.

    A FWIW on the older zooms, the 55-110 and 105-210 AF. These can be very good too, though you need to sort through a few copies to find good ones. (For example, my 55-110 is good enough at 55 that I recently sold my excellent copy of the 55 prime.) Right now I have both of these older AF zooms, and IMO they compare favorably to the D zoom at f8 and up. Note that I use these two zooms mostly for landscape where I am almost always stopped down to f11 or 16 depending on lens and focal. As such the wide open performance from these zooms is not critical for my uses, and I would rank them less desirable at the wide apertures. Also note my particular copy of the 105-210 is stellar at the longer end, so really makes a nice 210 with added versatility at around the same price as the 210 prime.

    A note on Macro. The Mamiya 120 macro is silly sharp and has outstanding contrast, nuff said. However it does show rather significant falloff wide open at f4 and has a kind of clumpy rear bokeh wide open. As such, I see it as more an f8 and up lens, and it is manual focus. Another option for less critical macro is adding a #1 or #2 tube to the 150 or the zooms. While they won't get as close and performance is not in the same league as the dedicated macro, the combos are surprisingly sharp. Like the macro, the tubes disable AF so your lenses become manual focus. The tubes are also smaller and lighter than adding a 120 lens, but if you have to buy them new, the #1 and #2 pair can cost about the same as a used non-D version 120! Finally, Mamiya offers an AFD bellows complete with a lens coupling cable and a 58mm reversing ring for the old 80/55/45 that gets you larger than 1:1 with excellent quality. These can be found new on eBay for under $1000. Optional reversing rings are available for 67mm and 77mm filter size lenses. The AF bellows does NOT have tilt, swing rise and shift movements like the older manual bellows had.
    Jack
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    Re: Wide angle lenses on Phamiya 645

    Hey Jack,

    Thanks for your thoughts. All good info.

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    Re: Wide angle lenses on Phamiya 645

    Ditto to Jack's comments. I find the 28 D indispensable as a REAL wide angle and I find it best at f11 or even 16 - the corners are good at f16 and I don't see any evidence of diffraction, to my surprise!

    I have a 35 but it is a bit soft and I tend to use the 28 mm and crop unless I know from the outset that I need every pixel the P45+ has to offer.

    I had a 45, not very impressed and sold it on account of expecting a T&S version - see below. I had a 55-110 too but it was "OK" rather than great and I sold it when the 75-150 came out.

    I like the 55 very much and mine is very sharp.

    The 75-150 D is indeed the "leave on" lens. Amazingly sharp at all lengths and hard to tell from the macro at its closest focus. If I can have only one lens on that proverbial desert island, this is the one.

    The 120 Macro D I use only for macro and it is SSS (superb scary sharp) though it's no sharper than the previous very impressive non-D version.

    One of the unsung heros of the line-up is the 210 - it's very sharp at f5.6 and is easy to hand-hold if you must. Great when you want a tele shot that doesn't look like one!

    Finally the 300 APO. Very sharp at full aperture but the camera/lens combo is very prone to vibration at shutter speeds longer than 1/100th, even with MLU. I try to use it at 1/250th even if I have to go ISO 400.

    What I want is (1) a really good 45 mm T&S, I'm still hoping Phase will be able to improve on the original Hartblei, and (2) the 150 2.8. I don't need it at all for my work, but I lust for its sharpness and (3) the postponed 45-90 zoom - if it ever becomes a reality.

    Incidentally, when I was Hassy (2000FC) user I didn't think much of the Mamiya lenses, but this new crop is every bit as good as the Hassy equivalents, unless of course you need leaf shutters! (Let's not go there again!)

    Bill

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    Re: Wide angle lenses on Phamiya 645

    Bill,

    Thanks for the reinforcement.

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    Re: Wide angle lenses on Phamiya 645

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Goh View Post
    Bill,

    Thanks for the reinforcement.
    The 28mm is together with 80mm f/1.9 my two favorite lenses for my 645AFD3. Here are correct conversions per diagonals of frames;

    28 on 44x33 sensor 22mm
    28 on 48x36 sensor 20mm
    28 on 645 full size 17mm

    I find the 28mm very sharp across the frame on my 44x33mm sensored Aptus 65.

    Also my 55-110 is sharp and I actually like the 43mm equal wide and 86mm equal to long end as a combo with the 28.

    Regards
    Anders

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    Re: Wide angle lenses on Phamiya 645

    Hey Anders

    Long time since we "met". Back in HK now?

    I'm going to call sellenhk one of these days and then send someone over to pick up if everything is OK.

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    Re: Wide angle lenses on Phamiya 645

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Goh View Post
    Hey Anders

    Long time since we "met". Back in HK now?

    I'm going to call sellenhk one of these days and then send someone over to pick up if everything is OK.
    Henry,

    Yup been some time since my zd trauma... back in HK since over one year, but... current project ending and not sure where next place will be, perhaps still HK.

    Ask for Catherine (she is the boss and deals with prices and $) or Mr Sunny. Say I recommended you! They give fair prices and are very helpful.

    Anders

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