Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Yea I must be nuts. LOL
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More Sony (Leica S2)...if that ever comes to market....we need a Sony (Leaf) to Hassy and Phamiya's Canon and Nikon.
Hi, I think you overlooked that MF sensors are of complete different characteristics / qualities than the dslr sensors Sony makes. Only two companies make MF sensors; Dalsa and Kodak (Dalsa arguably viewed as the higher quality). Making such and to the larger size sensors is a radically new ballgame. Contrary, the interesting would be if they put smaller Dalsa or Kodak sensors in smaller cameras, which we already have in the Leica M8 but limited to 8-bit color depth only. The sensor is one reason why the M8 is capable of also today very high image quality compared to new cameras by Canon, Nikon and Sony.Interesting speculations ....
Sony might be very well established to go the next step and build a Axyz MF camera, similar to the S2 or even to Phamiya/Hassi.
They would have all prerequisites:
1) Sensor technology in house
While the observation that MF sensors are in general better today than DSLR sensors is somehow true, based on my experiences there are 2 issues:Hi, I think you overlooked that MF sensors are of complete different characteristics / qualities than the dslr sensors Sony makes. Only two companies make MF sensors; Dalsa and Kodak (Dalsa arguably viewed as the higher quality). Making such and to the larger size sensors is a radically new ballgame. Contrary, the interesting would be if they put smaller Dalsa or Kodak sensors in smaller cameras, which we already have in the Leica M8 but limited to 8-bit color depth only. The sensor is one reason why the M8 is capable of also today very high image quality compared to new cameras by Canon, Nikon and Sony.
Regards
Anders
Ehh...? Pardon me, but lets relax.While the observation that MF sensors are in general better today than DSLR sensors is somehow true, based on my experiences there are 2 issues:
1) MF sensors are better than DSLR sensors - this is the fact today! But why cannot DSLR sensors reach the same quality than MF sensors in the future? Especially if some wise camera manufacturers design a camera without AA filter ???? And why the M8 is so good has 2 reasons - 1st the lenses of course, but 2nd the lack of an AA filter. There is no other magic about that Kodak sensor - sorry!
2) already today these 24MP DSLRs come pretty close to 30MP MFDBs. There are some differences, but I am pretty sure I meanwhile can treat a 24MP DSLR photo that way in post processing, that you will not be able to tell the difference to a 31MP or 33MP MFDB photo when printed to 60" by 40".
Maybe this is not what you like to accept, maybe you can argue that this is manipulation etc, but it is fact. Have done with already with my Canon 5D2 and Canon glass, and I am pretty sure to be able to do it even better with Sony A900 and Zeiss glass. Always taken into account optimal conditions (lightning, tripod, etc etc.)
I am not saying that digital MF does not have it's area of application of course and with 39MP backs you can definitely achieve much better results than with today's FF DSLRs but I strongly believe that Sony and Canon will be able to get closer to this level with their next generation sensors
If there is Kodak around in these future times? We will see, they are having big troubles today - unfortunately.
And yes, it could of course also be a Dalsa (or Kodak) sensor in a future DSLR, maybe in the R10? But I ask myself, WHY did sony and Nikon and Canon not use Kodak or Dalsa? Easy answer, Canon wants to be independent, Sony as well and Nikon - well they could gave chosen that great Kodak train of sensors, but they decided to go with Sony for some reasons.
So in fact the Kodak / Dalsa offerings seem not to be so good for FF DSLR vendors !?!
The sensor in the M8 is 16-bit compliant, capable, etc., It was Leica who added an internal 16-bit to 8-bit compression during the creating of the DNG file. Leica said the elected for 8-bits because they could not see a difference between the 8 bit vs 16 bit quality when testing prototypes. I'm skeptical of that statement. I suspect Leica elected for 8-bit due to reduced bandwidth needed when clearing buffers, writing files, reviewing files on playback, etc. My point here is - Dalsa did not limit the bit count (as in a reduced capability for cheaper product), it was Leica who limited the bit count (when writing the DNG file)....which we already have in the Leica M8 but limited to 8-bit color depth only.
Same feeling from my side - the electronics in the M8 were (are) simply to slow for 16bit - and they did not have enough time to redesign the boards. Also I was hitting the wall in some occasions especially with high contrasts - when you clearly see the limitations of the 8 bit.The sensor in the M8 is 16-bit compliant, capable, etc., It was Leica who added an internal 16-bit to 8-bit compression during the creating of the DNG file. Leica said the elected for 8-bits because they could not see a difference between the 8 bit vs 16 bit quality when testing prototypes. I'm skeptical of that statement. I suspect Leica elected for 8-bit due to reduced bandwidth needed when clearing buffers, writing files, reviewing files on playback, etc. My point here is - Dalsa did not limit the bit count (as in a reduced capability for cheaper product), it was Leica who limited the bit count (when writing the DNG file).
1) + 3) Aptus is not better than P1, Hassy or Sinar. It is a preference thing (though for me it is Leaf ). Dalsa sensors though appear to be at top, as also in P65+.@ Anders
1) so far no one could really prove to me that Aptus is better to any other MFDB solution
3) The best IQ I have seen so far is from Dalsa in P65+ and I expect the same from a P40+ as this is in fact the same chip technology
5) The M8 is great, but does it have better results as say a D3 or D3X or 5D2? Definitely NOT, if you compare over all. If there is a difference as I said it comes from no AA filter and the exceptional Leica M glass (if you use it right)
But anyway I accept what you believe and what you like and I wish you happiness and best of luck in all what you do!
And most importantly - enjoy your APTUS back and your M8 - the rest is not so important!