Phase to buy Leaf from Kodak.....

[LJL]

As things keep shifting, this bit of news may or may not change things in the MF world. Saw this on Luminous Landscape this morning. I am sure more info will emerge, along with discussions.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/whatsnew/

LJ

 

[carstenw]

Whoa, that came out of the blue. I wonder if Sinar's agreement with Leaf to supply Leaf high-end backs with their cameras is still relevant?

...and then there were three...

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Writing been written on the wall for some time now. Just waited until it came to bear. This immediately proves one thing immediately with investment in Mamiya and now this. Phase One seems to have the the financial backing to do just about anything. This only proves to me as a phase owner my future with there products and a growing company to expand the system. Bottom line a smart choice for me and my decisions on what MF system was and is a valued choice I made.

 

[Steve Hendrix]

Writing been written on the wall for some time now. Just waited until it came to bear. This immediately proves one thing immediately with investment in Mamiya and now this. Phase One seems to have the the financial backing to do just about anything. This only proves to me as a phase owner my future with there products and a growing company to expand the system. Bottom line a smart choice for me and my decisions on what MF system was and is a valued choice I made.

I agree. I believe our current financial status and our business capabilities have been underestimated by some.


Steve Hendrix
Phase One

 

[arashm]

wow
I see this as one more step closer to a Phase/Hasselblad future....
I guess we'll have to wait and see
( so can you tether leaf backs to C1 in the future??, I know no one knows that answer yet )
and what does this mean to Leica? if anything.
what will this do to the standing relationship between Leaf and the AFi/Hy6 ???
Will phase buy out the AFi as well ???
will we ever see a phase back on the AFi ???
interesting to say the least.
am

 

[ptomsu]

These are great news!

Such a cooperation - if it is a real cooperation, which I do not doubt a bit - can only bring even stronger and more innovative products and an acceleration of development of new technologies.

For me already was clear that Phase was the market leader in revenue as well as technology of MFDBs over the past years. Now this shows even better commitment for the future of MFDBs and cameras and OPEN SYSTEMS! Which is absolutely great news.

Have so far not been buying into one vendor or product, but the decision is pretty clear now.

 

[ptomsu]

wow
I see this as one more step closer to a Phase/Hasselblad future....
I guess we'll have to wait and see
( so can you tether leaf backs to C1 in the future??, I know no one knows that answer yet )
and what does this mean to Leica? if anything.
what will this do to the standing relationship between Leaf and the AFi/Hy6 ???
Will phase buy out the AFi as well ???
will we ever see a phase back on the AFi ???
interesting to say the least.
am

Think it would be easy to buy the AFi and all around, seems to be cheap in the moment Maybe this will happen? Would make some sense and bring lot consolidation.

WRT Leica I see their chances shrinking further. Not only will Hasselblad give them real hard time on pricing, they now also have an even more than potent and large competitor in Phase.

Bad for Leica.

GOOD FOR PHASE :thumbup::thumbs:

 

[robmac]

Good news. Two strong competitors with virtual market ownership will push faster tech innovation and more price competition. Helps keep everyone on their toes.

While Leaf will continue to operate under own name, will be some time to see how weeding out of product over-lap, cross-pollination etc., will work and what the ultimate combined product portfolio from Phase/Leaf + Mamiya will look like. Nice move by Phase to acquire an installed user base, engineering talent, How the Hi6 will fit in with the Phamiya relationship, if at all, I expect will be up in air for some time. I would expect top see Leaf integrated into the C1 workflow - helps expand Phase's software base, avoids duplicate software teams, etc.

 

[arashm]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that the Leica S2 will ship with C1 software as it's raw processing SW...
I see this as one more alliance for phase.
am

 

[LJL]

Peter,
Not sure that OPEN versus CLOSED systems is really relevant after this. Essentially, there may be three systems (Phase, Hasselblad, Leica) and each will be more or less "closed" to the others.

While all of this consolidation and stuff sounds great, what happens to the rest of the gear lineup beyond the backs that Phase makes? What is really happening with bodies and lenses? Where are the leaf shutter lenses and T/S lenses from Phase/Mamiya?

Not saying any of this to be disparaging, but fewer players, even if they will claim to preserve the name and direction of the newly acquired others does not mean it will always be a better or healthier situation. It is good to see struggling entities that do produce good parts be kept viable to some degree, but how long can that be sustained?

Honestly, though we may have seen this coming, as Guy states, we still really have no real idea of what this means going forward, and for how long. Phase may become the great aggregator/consolidator operation for MF, but they now have a lot of very different pieces to really get assimilated. If they do not keep up with advances in bodies and lenses, like Hasselblad is doing, or Leica may be offering, so what if they have great backs that cannot be used with equally great bodies and lenses? Not saying they are in that situation now, but that is a possible future they will have to manage, I think.

LJ

 

[robmac]

I think 'alliance' (as per Leica's description of the arrangement on announcement day) is a (cough) bit (cough) of an overstatement. You can C1 with any number of cameras - the fact it will be able to 'develop' S2 files (DNG?) and will ship in the box with the body is no big whoop IMHO.

Some of LJL's points are well made - Phase will have it's management talent now pretty busy integrating Leaf and they need to figure out the eventual depth and 'permanence' of their Mamiya relationship. Hassy is not exactly the type to sit back and whistle while Phase dots the i's and crosses the t's.

Not implying it's going to happen by ANY means, but many a great firm has blown it's own foot off during an acquisition by taking it's eye off the ball.

As for Leica being a player in MF - I'll wait until they actually start shipping the S2 in volume. Personally, I'm becoming more and more convinced that the S2, while a great idea (had it been launched x years ago in the 'bad old days' of the MFDB market), is going to be too little, too late, too costly and, as a result, potentially crippling for Leica.

While the S2 was intended to allow Leica side-step the 'eat your own young' DSLR market with a product where they could better justify their 'premium' label, it appears as if they will be essentially entering a smaller volume/larger sensor version of just that. I wish them luck, but...

 

[Bob]

Leica could have just as well engineered the S2 to be more Phamiya-like with an external back attachment. Their strength is their glass, not sensors and firmware or software for that matter. Sure it would be clunky, but would have kept them focused on their core strengths.
-bob

 

[dseelig]

i am more concerned about pricing as leaf seemed to be a lot more affordable then phase. Not that pahse owns leaf will prices rise for leaf owners? Sorry as I am a pro without the clients to buy a digital back and wanting one for my own work I am concerned.
www.davidseelig.com

 

[ddk]

We just have to wait and see what we get with the S2, I hope that it builds on the IQ of the dmr and not the M8 which I feel never really measured up to it. Personally I have very high hopes for it.

 

[carstenw]

I hope that this means that Phase gets access to the Hy6. Leaf's existing partnership with Sinar about high-end backs might mean that Phase would be able to focus on backs and 645 cameras, and Sinar could handle the Hy6, M, F- and P- lines, as well as the arTec, and in this Phase-centric universe, Hasselblad's strong position starts looking like a subset of Phase's. Then again, Hasselblad does some things really really well, so maybe things would stabilize at that point.

I guess the next thing is to find out what is going on with the Hy6, Franke&Heidecke, Schneider glass, and Sinar.

 

[Alexander Bauer]

what is going on? I was about to get Sinar and now I hear about Phase buying Leaf

does it mean I can use hy6 cameras with phase or what does it mean

why would phase buy leaf ?

 

[thomas]

I hope that this means that Phase gets access to the Hy6.

wait and see: http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=35825&view=findpost&p=293670

 

[robmac]

Classic acquisition - suitable vague announcement and the details will slowly (emphasis here) trickle out. Good news for Leaf users and IMHO industry but ST there will be FAR more questions on what will be left standing or changed from Leaf than there will be answers.

Why do it? Combo of (at very favorable prices):

- Acquisition of an installed base of users (hardware and software) to migrate to future Phleafmiya (someone had to say it first) products

- Further to above, makes a larger percentage of the Leaf base less likely to shed Leaf gear for Hassy. Now they have to LOSE the Leaf user vs. CHASE them head-to-head with Hassy (who, IMHO, has MUCH better Marketing).

- Acquisition of hard/software talent, design and production facilities.

- Possible access to Sinar/F&H body/lens tech/usage - helps keep Mamiya side of Phamiya honest.

Since it appears Leaf was logically shopping itself, one can assume they chatted to one degree or other with Hassy. However, this deal makes more sense for Phase as they have yet (stress here) to offer a fully integrated or 'closed' system. The integration of Leaf tech into a fully integrated system being far more costly in terms of time, management bandwidth and $$ for Hassy.

The question is how Phase will leverage the deal into a more integrated offering vs an la carte offering of (in future) compatible parts - some of which overlap at current. I don't expect to see a lot of the Leaf catalog left at the end of the day. That said, if I were a Leaf shooter, this would be a nice breath of fresh air into what was looking like a crappy situation.

In the short-term I'd expect to see some sweet offers from Hassy as Phase manages the integration. You may also see some nice prices on Leaf product as any left-over stock that will not be kept as active product is purged.

 

[thomas]

Phleafmiya

I vote for: "Leave 1"

 

[robmac]

I hear you. 'Phleafmiya' just doesn't roll of the tongue like 'Phamiya' did. ;> How about 'Phleamiya' (flee mee ya). Then there's 'Phleya' (flee ya). They need to buy-out Mamiya so we can keep it simple ;>