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Cube test versus Manfrotto geared 410

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Hi Jack!

I'm quite sure you're right and have ordered a larger plate and also have an L bracket coming but I would add that the Manfrotto plate is also rubber (if somewhat larger) and that the 410 I have both looks and feels very rigid indeed - but I guess I won't be able to benefit from the full abilities of the Cube until the Phamiya is unambiguously attached to the Cube as well as humanly possible!

Best

Tim
Tim:

The problem is a larger plate is still not the PROPER plate, at least IMO. You'll want the L plate from RRS or Kirk that has the registration pins and is machined perfectly to mate to the base of the camera... A "generic" plate, regardless of size, will be better, but still wasting your time IMO -- you simply cannot short-cut on precision digital capture and expect optimal results.

Here is the plate Guy, Bob and I use on our Mamiya's and I know this one works well. Note that it has a 3/8ths mounting bolt (why I chose the RRS over the Kirk), so you first remove the reducer in the base of your Mamiya body (there's a tiny phillips head screw in its base holding it in place, so be sure to remove that before unscrewing the insert!), allowing you to use a much stronger mount bolt in addition to it being machined to fit your camera's base perfectly: http://reallyrightstuff.com/rrs/Itemdesc.asp?ic=BM645-L&eq=BM645L-001&Tp=
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
does this apply to all plates/heads? So would you recommend to remove the rubber? Didn't do it by now as I thought the rubber absorbs...
No, I'd recommend you buy a plate designed specifically for your camera. Companies like Kirk and RRS make plates machined to match the contour of the base of your camera, providing a base that literally becomes part of the camera itself --- this is one of the main benefits of using the Arca-style clamp system.

See Kirk: http://www.kirkphoto.com/index.html

See RRS: http://reallyrightstuff.com/index.html
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
One of the first things I did while ordering the Cube was to pluck down a little extra an get a big honking camera plate as well; deciding on the Swiss Arca for my Cambo. Then shortly later added the Novoflex. I had a Kirk L-bracket on the Phase body that I used as well with very steady results.

While in the category of close yet not quite the same, I've also tested this with a 1Ds III [with a Kirk L-bracket] and 400DO and got equally good results.

Bottom line is that you need a very good camera plate, one shouldn't skimp here. You can have the best gear money can buy but if you use inferior support equipment you wind up screwing yourself. [Think of putting cheap gas in a race car]

Don
 

carstenw

Active member
The Cube appears to have a blue cast, whereas the Manfrotto has a green cast :)

Seriously, did you take all of the Cube shots together and all of the Manfrotto shots together? There might have been a change in the air density in the time between...
 

jlm

Workshop Member
speaking as a precision machinist...those plates (and other goodies) from RRS are excellent. I haven't seen the Kirk's
 

Dale Allyn

New member
I use all RRS plates as well, including the "L" plate for Mamiya, Canon and flat plates for others. I'm very happy with them. The Kirk plates that I have seen looked good too, though not quite as elegantly finished. I have not used Kirk plates myself, but would if RRS was not available to me.
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
I've put Kirk L's on every camera that took them however on the other side of the coin I've used RSS pano gear and lens plates which are excellent. While I no longer have the Phase body I still have the Canon cameras and each has a Kirk L on them.

Thinking about it now I no longer have the RSS pano gear either however I do have the lens plate for the Canon 400DO.

Another way of thinking about this is when we were building our current home and I balked at having to spend $50.00 for an extra utility fixture then my lovely wife not so kindly reminded me that the cost was a mere pittance compared to the overall cost.

Buy right the first time and save money in the long run as you won't be disappointed.

Just my 2¢ here.

Don

Picture me stepping down from soap box....:D
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
The Cube appears to have a blue cast, whereas the Manfrotto has a green cast :)

Seriously, did you take all of the Cube shots together and all of the Manfrotto shots together? There might have been a change in the air density in the time between...
Yup, well spotted - I wasn't after art though! However the shots were all taken pretty quickly and later in the day I've taken a bunch more with more stable atmospheric conditions and they all concur. Also, with shots taken at, say 1/25th and no mup, 1 sec mup and 6 sec mup within moments of each other you clearly see the blur reduce as you flick from shot to shot.

I think Jack and the others are right, it's the plate. Another piece of learnin'!

Best

Tim
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
No, I'd recommend you buy a plate designed specifically for your camera. Companies like Kirk and RRS make plates machined to match the contour of the base of your camera, providing a base that literally becomes part of the camera itself --- this is one of the main benefits of using the Arca-style clamp system.

See Kirk: http://www.kirkphoto.com/index.html

See RRS: http://reallyrightstuff.com/index.html
Jack Bob and Don,

I have an L plate arriving from Arca themselves. Does anyone have experience of that one? Also, the base of the Cube itself has a smaller two concentric circles and the inner smaller one stands proud meaning that the entire weight of the device and camera is supported on it, which seems to me to improve the chance of wobble. Am I being daft here? Is there something that should go between the cube and the tripod?

Best

Tim
 
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Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Tim,

I just screw my cube down tightly against the flat top plate on the Gitzo. John's the machinist and can probably answer this better than I can, but since the two surfaces are flat and the contact patch of the Cube base is still relatively large, the only flex I get from the Cube is that transferred directly to the tripod legs themselves... (Though heavy items mounted to the cube will show some flex from within the Cube's top clamp mechanism, and this happens long before anything happens at the tripod end.)
 

Paratom

Well-known member
Tim,
thank you for this test. I wont even follow the thread any more (until you get the new plate) since I got myself the 410 head today. I had a ball head before but for levelling the Artec its a pain. Another guy recommended me the 410 and then I saw your post and went to the store and got the 410. First impression is very good. I do not doubt the cube is great but I cant see spending that much money for a tripod-head.
Compared to the ball head I have used before (which works fine as a ball head) the geared 410 is a pleassure allready. I was impressed after just few minutes of using it.
Sorry for the off topic comment. Of course I will follow up your thread.
 

carstenw

Active member
Tom, does this mean that your stuff arrived? Review!

You should test the Hy6 with your longest lens at 1/15s to see if the head is steady enough. The 405 is much stronger, but double the price.
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Tim,
thank you for this test. I wont even follow the thread any more (until you get the new plate) since I got myself the 410 head today. I had a ball head before but for levelling the Artec its a pain. Another guy recommended me the 410 and then I saw your post and went to the store and got the 410. First impression is very good. I do not doubt the cube is great but I cant see spending that much money for a tripod-head.
Compared to the ball head I have used before (which works fine as a ball head) the geared 410 is a pleassure allready. I was impressed after just few minutes of using it.
Sorry for the off topic comment. Of course I will follow up your thread.
As you can tell, I am a fan of the 410 but I must say that neither of the heads I tested gave what I would call blur-free results until a 1/200th - and with a really good setup and MUP I would hope to get those results at much lower speeds!
 

Georg Baumann

Subscriber Member
Ok! You folks convinced me on the choice of plates, I need to find a dealer for that RSS stuff in europe, need to get a plate for my sony and one for the phamiya. It si just not on to spend that much money on gear and then skimp on essential tools that define final output quality.

Thanks for sharing, this is really important stuff!:thumbup:
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
Jack Bob and Don,

I have an L plate arriving from Arca themselves. Does anyone have experience of that one? Also, the base of the Cube itself has a smaller two concentric circles and the inner smaller one stands proud meaning that the entire weight of the device and camera is supported on it, which seems to me to improve the chance of wobble. Am I being daft here? Is there something that should go between the cube and the tripod?

Best

Tim
Tim,

I just screwed my Cube to the base of the tripod and the only trouble I get is when my big feet accidentally trip over a leg.

My tripod of choice is the Gitzo GT5540LS that has a large surface to mount the Cube.

No experience at all with the Arca L however if it's engineered half as good as the Cube it should be good; it'll be interesting reading your review.


Don
 

carstenw

Active member
Georg, I have RRS gear, and buy directly from the States. I am not aware of a dealer here. I have some plates, a pano rail, and the BH-25 and BH-55. I love the stuff in general, but I find that both heads move a touch as you tighten them, which really annoys me. I am thinking about future options still. The Cube is attractive, but very, very expensive. That is two lenses for my Contax right there...
 

thomas

New member
I love the stuff in general, but I find that both heads move a touch as you tighten them, which really annoys me.
try a Gitzo 2780 or probably better 3780 (#2 is enough by specs ... but with the #3 you don't have to worry about any movement after tightening the head).
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I use the 3870 since about 3 weeks ago that i used on the workshop. I could almost sit on the darn thing. It's a rock
 
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