Cube test versus Manfrotto geared 410

[woodyspedden]

Tim,

IMHO results from this test will be essentially useless until you get a proper plate for the Cube. ANY plate with a rubber or cork top is a bad option and will skew results negatively. For MF that means it needs to be a perfect fit and have the registration pins AND needs to be perfectly mounted to the body -- I've helped more than one person "fix" a "bad MF back" by tightening their plate properly to their camera body!

Frankly this result is just like when you did the MF test using the pistol grip ballhead and flimsy tripod and I told you to repeat it with a bigger head and the Gitzo 3-series CF pod... FWIW my results using the Cube on top of my Gitzo 3541 XLS and proper RRS L-plate are perfect, just like Bob's and just like Guy's with his Gitzo ball instead of the Cube...

Me Too

Woody

 

[Guy Mancuso]

When i can do 3 shot Pano's at 8 seconds per image and get the detail like this with a 150mm than i know i got a rock for a setup.

 

[RHP]

Now the other end of the spectrum, shots at 1/13th F16 and no MUP:

Cube:
View attachment 18579

Manfrotto:
View attachment 18580

Now as you can imagine there are 30 photos in this setup and the number of comparisons people might like to see is enormous so please let me know which permutation you'd like posted and I'll post it as soon as I can!

Best

Tim

Are you using a cable release?

 

[tashley]

Are you using a cable release?

Yup - I think my methodology is fairly reasonable and I did at the outset say I suspected that the issue was the plate. As soon as I get the L plate on it I'll try again and see what I get!

In the meantime I had fun with it in the studio today with extension tubes and a water lily that was wilting and wouldn't stay still: the way the Cube's adjustments work make it so easy to make quick and accurate adjustments...

F20, ISO 50, 1/125th with studio flash (one huge softbox and one brolly), tethered.

View attachment 18625

 

[Don Libby]

Yup - I think my methodology is fairly reasonable and I did at the outset say I suspected that the issue was the plate. As soon as I get the L plate on it I'll try again and see what I get!

In the meantime I had fun with it in the studio today with extension tubes and a water lily that was wilting and wouldn't stay still: the way the Cube's adjustments work make it so easy to make quick and accurate adjustments...

F20, ISO 50, 1/125th with studio flash (one huge softbox and one brolly), tethered.

View attachment 18625

Looks good Tim like the little bug in the upper left

 

[RHP]

Yup - I think my methodology is fairly reasonable and I did at the outset say I suspected that the issue was the plate. As soon as I get the L plate on it I'll try again and see what I get!

In the meantime I had fun with it in the studio today with extension tubes and a water lily that was wilting and wouldn't stay still: the way the Cube's adjustments work make it so easy to make quick and accurate adjustments...

F20, ISO 50, 1/125th with studio flash (one huge softbox and one brolly), tethered.

View attachment 18625

Love the bug! what lens?

 

[Dale Allyn]

In the meantime I had fun with it in the studio today with extension tubes and a water lily that was wilting and wouldn't stay still: the way the Cube's adjustments work make it so easy to make quick and accurate adjustments...

F20, ISO 50, 1/125th with studio flash (one huge softbox and one brolly), tethered.

View attachment 18625

Love the tones and textures, Tim.

 

[tashley]

Thanks guys! The bug's agent was a nightmare to deal with - wanted it's own trailer, etc etc... ;-)

The lens was the Kit 80D with an NA401 extension tube. The version I posted here is a crop of the central section: in the full frame version the water lily takes about 80% of the height of the composition.

Best

Tim

 

[Jack]

Tim,

Here is the test shot I promised you. Set up is on my shooting table, just overhead lights which generated an exposure of 1/10th at f9.5 ISO 100, which I figured was adequately close to your 1/12th sec for our purposes here . Shot using MLU and a 6 second self-timer delay. Also note I did NO sharpening other than the basic capture sharpening in C1 and only pulled these into CS to convert for web.

First image is the camera on the cube (via the RRS plate oriented vertically!) so you can see my set-up. Note first I used my 75-150 zoom at 150 since it was already on the camera, and note second I even left my nodal panning plate in place since that's how I always shoot -- and this probably reduces total rigidity somewhat:

Here is the full frame shot of a dust can:

Here is a crop of the lettering around the focus point:

Here is a crop of the top of the can, parts of which are also in the focus plane:

Summary: Is my shot perfect? Nope, clearly there is some movement and as I have always stated, that 1/8th to 1/20th range is the most problematic for the Mamiya and best avoided if possible. But as clearly -- or at least I think so -- the Cube AND RRS bracket are doing a stellar job of providing rigidity in the vertical orientation and appear to perform pretty significantly better than your combination did at 1/12th.

Cheers,

 

[Don Libby]

No matter what you say Jack these shots are really really good!

 

[tashley]

Jack, thanks in the extreme for doing that: I think we're all trying to work out how to finesse the last drop of performance from this gear and this really helps. I agree with you and Don: the shots are really really good but there is clearly some movement. Not sure if removing the panning plate would help either.

I'm now in the wrong place to look at my test files for the Cube on the Arca L plate and won't be back there for ten days but I just looked up my post and weirdly, despite the Arca L in general not being great when attached vertically, at 1/12th it did the best of the combos I tested. Which leads me to think that there are specifics of shake and resonance in each rig that differ. So probably the only way to work out the ultimate 'best combo' would be to head to head the two plates under identical circumstances. I might order an RRS and give that a go.

I'd say in your shot that there's a one pixel horizontal blur and no vertical - what do you think?

Thanks again Jack!

Tim

 

[BlasR]

When i can do 3 shot Pano's at 8 seconds per image and get the detail like this with a 150mm than i know i got a rock for a setup.

Guy,

the pano is beautiful, the place is just outside of page?

Blas

 

[Jack]

Which leads me to think that there are specifics of shake and resonance in each rig that differ.

IME that does not seem to be the case -- even across differing focal plane systems including other formats and even in LF lenses with leaf shutters, that 1/15th region seems to be the most problematic. However what is clear to me, even with perfect techniques, is that differing mounting systems -- meaning plates, clamps, heads and leg-sets chosen -- will allow significantly varying degrees of motion to persist across any given system.

I'd say in your shot that there's a one pixel horizontal blur and no vertical - what do you think?

Yes, looking at the original file at 400%, I'd say that's about right.

Cheers,

 

[Jack]

Jack, thanks in the extreme for doing that: I think we're all trying to work out how to finesse the last drop of performance from this gear and this really helps. I agree with you and Don: the shots are really really good but there is clearly some movement.

My pleasure. However, I would correct one point --- many of us have already "worked out" the best methods of capture, processing and technique and are simply trying to share what we've learned with others so they do not have to go through the same experimenting agony we did.

Cheers,

 

[Woody Campbell]

My cube arrived last week - I finally had a chance to spend a couple of hours with it this afternoon. I've mounted it on a Gitzo GT3541LS. This is a remarkably light and stable combination - the combination weights about 6 lbs 4 oz - a full 1 lb savings over the Kirk ballhead plus Gitzo 3530 that I've been lugging around for the past few years.

It put my H3D 39 on it with the 150 lens and shot some distant brick walls using shutter speeds from 1/4 t0 1/60 with the mirror locked up. There was no sign of any camera movement at all at any shutter spead. The H3D has a RRS L-bracket that screws to the side of the camera as well as the bottom. It's really rigid.

The cube is a joy to use - movements are beautifully damped and silky smooth. Knocks on it:

1. The quick release clamp is really fidgy. Jack - if you read this I'd appreciate it if you could remind me of the spec of the clamp that you replaced it with.

2. The levels are too small to be useful. I used the pocket level that I always carry around anyway.

3. The locking levers for rotation are small - if you have large hands they would be a challenge.

All in all a major and welcome upgrade for me. Thanks to everyone who led me down this path.

BTW I found a Hasselblad lens bag in my kit that fits over the head nicely.

 

[Don Libby]

Congratulations on the Cube Woody.

I'm not Jack however the release clamp is adjustable by turning the wheel that's somewhat recessed at the top. It was a trial and error for me with me turning the wrong way and having the thing fly off right after I got it. I been able to get it tight enough now where it really clamps down.

Or you could replace it with a clamp from RRS.

Don

 

[ericstaud]

The Arca Clamp is very easy to use, I think it just takes a little practice. It's much safer than the RSS lever clamp, and much faster than a Knob style clamp.

When I want to undo the clamp I push it in gently and then pull the safety release. I then use my thumb to undo the secondary release inside the handle. The key is not to pull on the clamp when trying to undo the safeties, or they bind. It becomes second nature very quickly.

I have both knob and lever RSS clamps on different heads here and the Arca quick release is definitely the best designed. A great combination of speed and safety.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...s_802019_Flip_Lock_Quick_Release_Adapter.html

 

[GrahamWelland]

I have both knob and lever RSS clamps on different heads here and the Arca quick release is definitely the best designed. A great combination of speed and safety.

Eric,

I suspect you may be on your own with this one. I don't yet have a cube but I do have a B1 & Z1 that came with the arca QR clamps and replaced them both with RRS lever clamps after the n'th time when the adjuster & washers went flying. I also found the flex and fiddly locks on the clamp to be a pain to use.

By comparison the RRS lever and screw clamps are rock solid. Not perfect though but much more robust than the under engineered (IMHO) Arca clamp.

Each to their own.

 

[Tim Ernst]

Are you guys saying that the lever clamp on the $2400 cube is crap, really? I've heard at least three folks say it is and they replaced it with a RRS including digilloyd in his review. I have four of the RRS clamps and love them, but would hate to have to buy another one - you don't normally have to run out and buy tires when you bring home a new Rolls Royce. Or is this just a matter of some folks not liking the design of the AS clamp while others love it?

 

[stephengilbert]

Tim,

Are you guys saying that the lever clamp on the $2400 cube is crap, really? Yes.

Or is this just a matter of some folks not liking the design of the AS clamp while others love it? Yes.

Steve