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Thread: Sinar back processing

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    Sinar back processing

    Having just received and started using an almost-new eMotion 54LV, and having struggled with workflow for a few days until settling into a nice rhythm, I thought I would start this thread for the Sinar owners on this forum to write about their problems and solutions.

    My current workflow is very simple, drag the images to my incoming folder (converting to DNG), load them up, and go through them, setting Brightness, Contrast, WB, and Saturation. The rest of the settings I find good on default so far. Then I load them into Lightroom where I can process a little further, without having lost any sharpness or gotten any noise from its lousy algorithms in those two areas.

    Some outstanding problems: Lightness levels: I am on the road and I find it hard to judge the lightness of the results. Any tips are very welcome. Noise: I rarely see noise, but sometimes I expose a little low. I would enjoy tips on how to control noise with eXposure.

    I also would like to change the default settings. The Saturation is set to -10 by default, for example. I would like to set this to 0 or even 10, and save that. Is there a way?

    How can one process multiple images at the same time, setting WB etc?

    Is there some way to speed up export? This part of the process takes a very long time.

    I look forward to any tips!
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Lightness levels: I am on the road and I find it hard to judge the lightness of the results. Any tips are very welcome.
    I assume you talk about the luminance level in editing, not exposure, right?
    This is actually a colour management topic (and a very tricky) one. It depends very much on the viewing conditions and the environment you are working in - and, too, in the quality of your display and the calibration, of course.
    A few points just to start with:
    - avoid direct light on the display (a shade is worth its weight in gold)
    - avoid too high contrast on the display
    - set the entire environment as neutral as possible; this includes the settings in your applications as well: avoid too dark backgrounds, avoid coloured backgrounds (this applies to the desktop as well)
    - load test charts and desktop backgrounds from colormanagement.org
    - always have a look at the RGB values in the midtones and compare them visually to mid grey
    - for further editing you sould have a printed test image (with grey scale, colour patterns and real world images) and the same image on screen viewed in Photoshop under the respective softproof settings; the German "cleverprinting" booklet comes with such a print and I think it's very well worth the few Euros.

    Bottom line is: you can't edit images accurate if you just rely on the display but the display itself is not set accurate and isn't used under appropriate conditions.
    Welcome in the digital world :-)

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    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Then I load them into Lightroom where I can process a little further, without having lost any sharpness or gotten any noise from its lousy algorithms in those two areas.
    Which operations do you use Lightroom for?
    Why use contrast, brightness and saturation in eXposure? A well made curve should give you great results and is preferable.

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    I would enjoy tips on how to control noise with eXposure.
    If you mean noise reduction, there is a tool you can switch on which works well if you need it.

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    I also would like to change the default settings. The Saturation is set to -10 by default, for example. I would like to set this to 0 or even 10, and save that. Is there a way?
    I assume you are stil talking about eXposure. The default should be '0' and you can deselect the tool altogether. I believe that you can change your defaults but I never needed to use this feature.

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    How can one process multiple images at the same time, setting WB etc?
    You can select the thumbnail of the image with correct settings, 'copy', then select the thumbnails you want to change and hit 'paste'.

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Is there some way to speed up export? This part of the process takes a very long time.
    It's not very fast but the results are better than other apps so I suppose it's worth the wait. Only a faster machine will speed up the process, afaik.

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Carsten,
    in the contact sheet you can easily save/load parameter sets. A parameter set can be just one parameter (for example WB) or a set of different settings.

    If you are working on the image you can allways go in the "film strip" on the thumbs, mark one thumb, copy all parameters of this one image and apply them to other images (you can do this with shortcuts).

    Also you can define three custom tone curves which you can apply to the images.

    I often shift brightness to +30, and do use a tone curve which is a little flater than the film curve.

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    Subscriber Member Georg Baumann's Avatar
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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Congrats Carsten!

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Firstly wecome to Sinar land Carsten -we ar esmall in number but big on brains! LOL I will go thropugh each of yoru points and make comment if I can add any value..

    My current workflow is very simple, drag the images to my incoming folder (converting to DNG), load them up, and go through them, setting Brightness, Contrast, WB, and Saturation. The rest of the settings I find good on default so far.

    I always start with WB - and I find that the white balance tool ( picker) is fantastic if you have a neutral grey or similar to choose from somewhere in teh image. Otherwise - you have the Temp slider...

    Then I load them into Lightroom where I can process a little further, without having lost any sharpness or gotten any noise from its lousy algorithms in those two areas.

    Lightroom is ok - I use CS4 - but that is choice

    Some outstanding problems: Lightness levels: I am on the road and I find it hard to judge the lightness of the results. Any tips are very welcome. Noise: I rarely see noise, but sometimes I expose a little low. I would enjoy tips on how to control noise with eXposure.

    The perception of Lightness (you mean luminence?) - as indicated by Thomas is very much affected by the overall setting that you are using your laptop. Also the laptop screen is never going to give you as good a calibration for proofing as a calibrated monitor. ( you knwo this anyway I bet)

    Regarding noise - I only shoot base ISO with MFD back - and never see it unless as you say ..you are underexposing..which may be a function of teh actual CONTAX metering and how the back reponds to teh metering

    try adjusting the EV so that you arent shooting as per meter ( presumably AE?) and getting underexposure. It isnt straneg to get underexposure using older type bodies - I get the same with my 205TCC and Mamiya RZ - just use the EV adjustment and check your histogram on the back until you nail it.



    I also would like to change the default settings. The Saturation is set to -10 by default, for example. I would like to set this to 0 or even 10, and save that. Is there a way?

    hmm cant help here my default is 0 ..

    How can one process multiple images at the same time, setting WB etc?

    explained well by teh other guys.

    Is there some way to speed up export? This part of the process takes a very long time.

    Again as Graham indicates - it is a function of computer speed.

    Enjoy!

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Hi Carsten,

    When you import images from a CF card, a group of settings (a 'parameter set') is applied by default. This parameter is called 'cf-card_import.set' and the values in this set can be changed so every time files are imported from a CF card or the back's internal memory the settings you have defined in this parameter set are applied by default. To do this, select a picture already in your contact sheet and make all the settings you would like for future imports in the process tab, such as WB, brightness, curve, sat etc. Then right click on the image in the contact sheet and select save parameter set. Now click on the cf-card_import.set and select yes when it asks you if you are sure you want to replace this parameter set with the new one. Here is a picture that might help:
    Last edited by bdp; 30th June 2009 at 04:27.

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    As the others have said, processing multiple images is easy - cmd-c and cmd-v in the contact sheet does it all. To copy just some settings from one image to others, save the parameters of the image as a new parameter set, then select the other images and click manage parameters. You can then apply one or more of your saved parameters from a set to the selected images. Enable or disable the ones you do or don't want by clicking on the little icons on the left. The ones that won't be applied are crossed out. Another pic:
    Last edited by bdp; 30th June 2009 at 04:33.

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Also, noise reduction has a bug in version 6.2.0. It is applied at the wrong time in the processing of images, meaning that the result is noisier than it should be. The next version of eXposure is meant to address it. I have seen a beta that works well, and the NR is amazing. However if you are working on the DNG in Lightroom or ACR then the NR isn't applied anyway - I'm pretty sure it's just applied to a TIF or jpg at the time of export. Indeed, turning NR off halves the export time for each image. Export time depends very much on the processor, and newer isn't necessarily better. My old G5 tower with dual 2.5 non-Intel processors would take 5 minutes per picture to export, 2.5 minutes with NR turned off. But my wife's 2008 model Intel 2 x 2.8 tower only takes 38 seconds per picture, 19 seconds with NR off! BUT, I have just bought a 2 x 2.93 Nehalem tower and it is SLOWER than the 2008 model. Exports take 65 seconds per picture with NR on, nearly double the previous generation Mac Pro. Maybe Snow Leopard will improve things, and maybe eXposure isn't optimised for the new processors yet.

    Another thing, if you want features in eXposure I strongly encourage you to contact the software development team at [email protected] to make suggestions and report bugs. That is what this email address was setup for and they will only improve things if enough users ask for them. I have been harping on about more ACR-like features such as fill light and recovery, along with Hue/Sat/Lum sliders to make processing easier in the one app.

    If you do accidently overexpose an image a bit, I have found some negative EV helps bring back highlight detail, much like a recovery slider. You can then increase the brightness or curve to brighten the midtones again. Hope all this helps.

    Ben
    Last edited by bdp; 30th June 2009 at 04:36.

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    are you viewing the histogram? (Using Capture One, which may or may not apply), that is useful when setting "exposure", which moves the entire curve to the right or left. you can also drag the high and low value sliders to quickly set brightness and contrast (this widens the curve, finally you can drag the midpoint slider to change the gamma; all of this is visible live in the image. you can also display a traditional curve and manipulate that to get a shoulder, etc.

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Thanks Carsten for opening this thread , I have allready learned things Idid not know.
    I feel stupid now, but didnt know about the import-set - and was allways thinking that I should be able to set/change the defaults. Now I know.
    This will save me quite some time in the future.

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    one more comment-if you feel vignetting to be a problem you could allways use wide shading and compensate that way for the vignetting.

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Wow, lots of good tips, thanks everyone!

    First: Graham, I use Lightroom only for minor fine-tuning, if at all, and didn't refer to it in any of my questions. I also use it for photo-management, exporting, slideshows or galleries, and so on, but not for WB et al. LR really sucks with both my cameras (my other camera is a Leica M8) when you want to nail WB, clear up minor noise, sharpen, and so on.

    Thomas, thanks for the tip about the editing environment and the monitor shade; I will have to get one. I have trouble judging the light in my photos, even when my screen is freshly calibrated, simply because my experience at this level is minimal.

    Graham, I use brightness, contrast and saturation because I am familiar with them, and am trying to get on familiar ground. I don't know that much about using the curve to set up an image. I have played with it a little, but found it hard to control. Do you use curves for each channel? How do you use the curve?

    Thanks Georg

    Peter, I think the engine is the same in LR and CS4 (which I also own), so editing in ACR vs. LR shouldn't be very different. Of course, in CS4 itself there is more control, but I am not there yet.

    At the moment I am using a Huey Pro for calibration, which is okay, but not the best on the market. I want to move to something which also handles prints when I get a chance, but do not want to spend the money right now, so it'll have to wait a little.

    Thanks for the many tips, Ben, I will have to work my way through them when I get some time, maybe tomorrow. I am in the middle of a family reunion here, so time is tight

    Jim, the histogram is on the Capture tab, whereas the processing is on the Process tab. Although you can move around windows in the interface in general, I haven't found a way of moving these two tabs apart yet. Here is what my interface looks like, after some rearranging:

    Attachment 18798

    I start a session by going into the browser tab, setting my contact sheet to my CF card, copying the photos on the card into the Incoming folder, and setting that as my contact sheet. Then I switch to the Controls tab, where I start in the Capture tab, to get a glimpse of the histogram, and then I move to the Process tab, moving the contact sheet out of the way to maximize my image size, and I edit all photos, then export to 16-bit TIFF, which I import into Lightroom mostly for photo management, exporting, creating galleries, etc.

    Any tips for improvements here is welcome.

    Tom, I didn't try the white shading methodology yet, but I will!
    Carsten - Website

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    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Graham, I use brightness, contrast and saturation because I am familiar with them, and am trying to get on familiar ground. I don't know that much about using the curve to set up an image. I have played with it a little, but found it hard to control. Do you use curves for each channel? How do you use the curve?
    It is no different to a Photoshop curve, so I assume you are not using Photoshop much? There must be many tutorials on the curve tool online which should help.

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    I have trouble judging the light in my photos, even when my screen is freshly calibrated, simply because my experience at this level is minimal.
    Takes time and some prints (colour managed prints form a good lab) ...
    This is why I'd recommend to buy the "cleverprinting" booklet - helps a lot!
    Too, if you are not so familar with colour management by now it is a good introduction.
    Color management is a must - the sooner you start with it the less you will re-edit your files later on when you have a better display and are more experienced.
    I addition: you need at least one medium that gives you an accurate representation of what you are actually seeing. Anything else is botching. Sounds hard... but it's simply true.
    But right now I think you have different priorities on the list and that's quite reasonable...

    As to brightness and contrast these adjustments do basically the same as a curve but with much less control (e.g. "contrast" is the same as a classical "S" curve). As long as you feel more safe with basic adjustments by now keep that workflow.
    As to the entire digital workflow I highly recommend:
    Bettina & Uwe Steinmüller
    Die digitale Dunkelkammmer
    dPunkt Verlag

    Lots of tutorials about raw processing, Photoshop (incl. curves, layer techniques), sharpening (!), archiving...
    But they kept the book clean; it's not overkill. Everything is explained in a way so that beginners will likely understand it all but at the same time it's enough stuff to work with it 2 years or so.

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Carsten, as Peter said, welcome to the shrinking world of Sinar users My workflow uses eXposure only for conversion to DNG. All other adjustments, including WB, I do in Aperture and, if needed, in CS4.

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Carsten, my normal workflow is to export a 16 bit TIFF from eXposure with no adjustments at all except WB (so that means a flat curve too). Then I import to Photoshop, where I am very comfortable with adjustment layers, etc. In other words, I use CS4 for practically everything. The only real exception is when I need to use highlight recovery - in that case I will use CS4 to process the DNG, or in some cases use CS4's conversion and HLR as a masked layer, using it only for the recovered parts of the image, to get the best of both worlds.

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Quote Originally Posted by foto-z View Post
    .... my normal workflow is to export a 16 bit TIFF from eXposure with no adjustments at all except WB (so that means a flat curve too). Then I import to Photoshop, ....
    Not sure what version eX is at now, but the one I was using a year ago was a joke!

    Hence I did the same, more or less...

    Forget about eXposure Carsten, get some legacy software http://www.brumbaer.de/Tools/appls/eMotionDng.zip and use it to convert, all you need!

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Quote Originally Posted by Georg Baumann View Post
    Not sure what version eX is at now, but the one I was using a year ago was a joke!
    It's good software now, with high image quality when converting (better than anything else I've tried so far). I don't see the point in duplicating all of Photoshop's features in a raw processing app, but each to their own.

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Quote Originally Posted by foto-z View Post
    It's good software now, with high image quality when converting (better than anything else I've tried so far). I don't see the point in duplicating all of Photoshop's features in a raw processing app, but each to their own.
    Hmmm....

    Quote Originally Posted by foto-z View Post
    ]Carsten, my normal workflow is to export a 16 bit TIFF from eXposure with no adjustments at all except WB (so that means a flat curve too). Then I import to Photoshop, where I am very comfortable with adjustment layers, etc. In other words, I use CS4 for practically everything.
    Quote Originally Posted by foto-z View Post
    Carsten, as Peter said, welcome to the shrinking world of Sinar users My workflow uses eXposure only for conversion to DNG. All other adjustments, including WB, I do in Aperture and, if needed, in CS4.
    Yeah, agreed, each to their own....

    Trouble is, with such a "dedicated hardware" if you get my drift, I would have expected much better competence in the resulting software, which is not the case in my view.

    Same with Hammelbach...ahem, Hasselblad, their software sucked big times, still does, and I understand that this is a major investement to perform if you even consider to make such a commitment, and apparently, they only "considered" and spent some, but did not go full whack!

    ....<consultant head on>.... anyone making a serious move now, variety of possibilities, and in that shake up climate, has a good chance to gain competitive advantage! Phase One made a good move I think! .... <throwing consultant head away>....
    Last edited by Georg Baumann; 30th June 2009 at 17:37.

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    It is a bit harsh to say that Exposure is a 'joke'. All these raw processors will do an at the margin better job of processing the native files better than a generic process from Adobe. My primary use of Exposure is to get white balance correct as well as use the white shade tools to remove any colour caste issue when using back on Alpa. We must remember that the rpimary purpose of the manufacturers software was to process the raw files and to provide tethered shooting capability and control over camera functionality.

    C1 is clearly the best most feature rich raw processor and image enhancement tool out there ( for teh Phase One files and supported DNG formats) - but even here (really) I prefer to use basic raw processing / white balance and colour treatment - then export to CS4.

    The other thing to consider is storage /archiving files through whole workflow - and here is where individual differences in preferences dictate workflow.

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Hi Peter,

    that's the trouble with the internet. I did not mean to come across harsh at all, oppinionated for sure, but that's about it.

    I would dispute the notion that alledged proprietary knowlegde, and come on, seriously, I mean they all buy the chips, it is not Kodak or Dalsa software you use, gives an advantage by using their "software attempts" ( not meant in a harsh way ) - Guess I live too long in Ireland, they call a spade a spade here. -

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Oh no problem Georg I am not a fanboy of anything - trust me!

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    thanks

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Oh no problem Georg I am not a fanboy of anything - trust me!
    Bull****! I've seen you on your tractor!

    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    I shoot mostly tethered in the studio. For that reason I use eXposure exclusively, only using Photoshop if I need to. That's why I like to have as many features in eXposure as possible, so that my workflow is efficient and I don't need to keep changing apps just to do something like changing the hue of the red channel a bit. It seems most people here shoot to card and then process later. In that case I would probably use ACR/LR too, because of the extra controls available. But I like to be able to process as I shoot, so I need good software that works tethered and processes well, so that when clients are looking over my shoulder the image looks good. If I kept telling them "don't worry, I'll fix it up in Lightroom or Photoshop later" or I kept having to switch apps and tweak settings I would look less professional.

    Ben

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Bull****! I've seen you on your tractor!

    Hey - tractors dont count !

    I will make a 'arty' shot of the BIG BOY - just for you Jack.

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    What CF cards do people use? I have heard from Graham among others that some Sandisk cards don't work well with the e54, and I have just a 4GB Extreme III and an 8GB Ultra II card.

    With my Ultra II card I now have the problem that the photos look correct in eXposure, but when I import them to DNG, I get a mix of old photos and garbage. Does anyone know how to rescue these photos?
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    I've never had a problem with my A-DATA 16GB 350x. I also never had problems with my old Sandisk Ultra II 2GB, so I am not reporting from personal experience, but from this thread:
    http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/...howtopic=34111

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Ah, there the thread is! I misread and was searching here. I remember it now. I have added my voice to the fray there.

    Tom, be careful, apparently the problem affects e54 and e75 the same. Do not format your CF card in the back; it may not work right.

    Interestingly, I was able to use Disk Utility to make a disk image of the affected card, and the disk image has exactly the same problem, i.e. the images look fine in eXposure, but upon DNG converting them, they are corrupted, or just old images from the card.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Hey Carsten,

    to post this on fora is fine, but this does not make it a case!

    I would recommend to contact Feuerthalen and makes this a casenumber to be followed up.

    They sure are very friendly chaps there and a pleasure to talk to!

    I think, you would want to make sure that Sinar understands and identifies this as a problem with a possible solution, and that you need this to be eliminated.

    What I mean by that is simply a reassurance for you that this problem will be solved whatever it takes, also, the time frame is obviusly an issue, as this can not go on for ever. You are loosing tourist shots at the moment, but just think they would be of value and created under pressure and time limitations....

    Best of Luck with that, hope they will find a solution for you asap!

    P.S. As for the rescue of your photos, the only chance, if at all, is to send the CF to Sinar. They might be able to get them back if you are lucky.

    P.P.S. Formatting the entire back might be temporary solution, however, it is not a real solution, as it was just a matter of time until it happened again here. You might want to try this, but in any case check with Sinar first!

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Don't worry, Georg, I do intend to take this to Sinar. I just have to get home first. For now, I will shoot on the back's internal memory, and check that the transfers work fine before deleting.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Interesting Carsten - I shall check out my back tomorrow - as I haev alwys used teh internal drive - I cant report on CF card issues..or not..

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    I know DavidK has solved this problem for his Sinar back, so hopefully he will report in with the proper formatting and storage procedure for you guys.
    Jack
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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Jack,
    The only CF card issues I've had were self-induced, i.e. I took one of my CF cards out of my Nikon D3 and used it in the e75LV without formatting it first. The images on that card were corrupted coming into eXposure. I had no success in trying to recover them with the SanDisk Rescue Pro software. Having said that, I checked with Sinar about compatible CF cards and got this emailed response:

    1. The eMotion series supports only PIO Mode , currently PIO 4 which is 16MB/s.

    2. The Sinarback eSprit supports UDMA 4 which is 66 MB/s.

    FWIW, I capture my images to CF card and not to internal storage unless I am shooting tethered in the Studio in which event they are converted to DNG and stored on my laptop. Having seen Capture One used for tethered shooting by an expert digital tech I think it's fair to say that eXposure is not in the same ballpark. Nonetheless, for my limited use of eXposure to do conversions to DNG only, it works just fine. Frankly, I was happier with the very limited features of the Brumbaer tools and consider it a shame that it's no longer being developed or supported.

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    For anyone wishing to check if their back has this problem, format the CF card in the back, shoot to internal memory, and then use "Move Max." to move all images to the card. Once done, connect the card to the computer, open up eXposure, and look at the images. I presume that the embedded thumbnails are being used, and the images should look fine. Now drag the images from the contact sheet to a harddrive, and once done, open them.

    For me, I saw some images from the previous day, and some totally scrambled images, with chunks from previous days' images, false colours, banding, and more.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Carsten, did you also try to format the card in the computer (FAT)?
    Or try both: format the card in the computer and once again in the back.

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    For anyone wishing to check if their back has this problem, format the CF card in the back, shoot to internal memory, and then use "Move Max." to move all images to the card. Once done, connect the card to the computer, open up eXposure, and look at the images. I presume that the embedded thumbnails are being used, and the images should look fine. Now drag the images from the contact sheet to a harddrive, and once done, open them.

    For me, I saw some images from the previous day, and some totally scrambled images, with chunks from previous days' images, false colours, banding, and more.
    I've never had this problem. Which version of the firmware are you using?

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    Subscriber Member Georg Baumann's Avatar
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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    For me, I saw some images from the previous day, and some totally scrambled images, with chunks from previous days' images, false colours, banding, and more.
    Vertical banding.... dark violett and green.... that's what I recall.

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    I am using the latest, 5.09. Someone on LL reported, and I suspect that he was using an earlier version, maybe 5.07.

    The point is not if you have ever seen it, because different work habits might avoid it. The point is whether it *can* happen on your camera. I would recommend to test for it.
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    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Someone suggested that this problem could be avoided if you format the CF card using Disk Utility instead (which only takes seconds) but I have never seen the problem, never mind being able to repeat it or fix it in predictable way.

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Getting back to processing, I really think those of you who use ACR or Lightroom should learn to use eXposure a bit more in order to get the most from your Sinar files. It can be difficult to use without the easy controls that are offered in ACR/LR, but from my tests the eXposure files when carefully processed show far superior detail, more natural colour, smoother gradations from one colour to another, and finer grain compared to the same file treated in ACR/LR. Sinar is well known for being very obsessed with quality, and sometimes will not include features if they degrade the quality of the output.

    Below is an example of a 100% crop of an 800ISO shot taken with my eMotion 75LV. The one on the left was processed in ACR, with no sharpening and 25% colour NR. The one on the right is the eXposure version. You can see the hairs are finer, with better edges, the red is better, and the gradations are smoother in colour and tone.

    I hope this shows why I believe eXposure to be very underrated software as far as processing goes, but admittedly a little short on features. From all the raw processing software I've seen, eXposure gives the best 100% details, with no 'wobbly' or painterly texture that others give. Whether this matters once an image is printed up for debate I suppose.

    Ben

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Interesting comparison. The noise does look better on the right, but the reds appear to be blown out in both? I am guessing that the tone is more accurate on the right though.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Interesting comparison. The noise does look better on the right, but the reds appear to be blown out in both? I am guessing that the tone is more accurate on the right though.
    Yes, the reds are hard. I found the rest of the shot needed more saturation and without the ability to calm down the red in eXposure it looks a bit over saturated. This is a good argument for more controls in eXposure.

    Capture One does a good job, especially with the reds. However I find it almost too sharp, and the hairs show jaggies and moire, even with sharpening turned off completely. The moire reduction slider is nice, but reduces the detail too much in the T-shirt before it gets rid of the moire in the hair. It also doesn't do a great job where the shadows blend into the lighter areas.

    Interesting how the Capture One version reminds me of Fuji Provia and the eXposure of Kodak Ektachrome! I don't have that much experience with C1 so I'm sure a better result is possible.

    Ben

    Capture One effort:
    Last edited by bdp; 2nd July 2009 at 05:44.

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    I agree with you that using eXposure as much as possible is a Good Thing (TM), but I still think that there is value in moving to other programs for their strengths. In this particular shot, you could do the base conversion, including sharpness and noise, but keep the reds under the point of clipping, and then move to CS4 or LR to increase the saturation selectively in other channels.

    With some of the shots from the forest I have posted here, I could not have finished them in eXposure. Instead, I converted to DNG, used eXposure to get the detail out them, set the white balance and make minor tweaks, and then brought them into Lightroom as 16-bit TIFFs, where I used the vignetting tools and the brush to selectively edit some areas.
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    Re: Sinar back processing

    I had some moiree (pinkish and greenish small dots in small detail of trees with snow) from images converted in C1 and Adobe, which did not appear when the same dng was converted in Exposure.
    In the end I feel saver and better if I use the original software from Sinar if I convert Sinar files.
    I also have to say that 90% of the functions in C1 I personally dont really need. There are maybe 2 or 3 I would like to have in Exposure but besides those I am fine with how it works and what it does.

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    I have been playing with eXposure, and trying out the various options. I tried setting a white shading file, with the Sinar white shading diffusor, and applied it to the following shots (tethered), but when I brought the file into Photoshop and poked around with the pipette, I found that there was still minor casts here and there, a few points more red, or whatever.

    I am wondering what exactly I should expect from this procedure. The file looks good, visually, and the corner darkening and obvious casts were cleaned up, but the minor casts can still be detected visually, just.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    I have been playing with eXposure, and trying out the various options. I tried setting a white shading file, with the Sinar white shading diffusor, and applied it to the following shots (tethered), but when I brought the file into Photoshop and poked around with the pipette, I found that there was still minor casts here and there, a few points more red, or whatever.

    I am wondering what exactly I should expect from this procedure. The file looks good, visually, and the corner darkening and obvious casts were cleaned up, but the minor casts can still be detected visually, just.
    Did you try the shading with different degrees? As I understand you can apply it in four different degrees.

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    Ah, no I didn't, I'll look for that, thanks!
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Sinar back processing

    ah, I just read the following:
    "Select the shading intensity
    The shading intensity is selected by marking the circle graph ("pie chart") in the upper left corner of the thumbnail. The proportions of the circle graph that are visible correspond to the intensity of the shading (0 %, 25 %, 50 %, 75 % and 100 %).

    Please note: This selectable intensity applies to the brightness correction. The color correction is always 100 %"

    so it seems it wouldnt help for your small still exisiting color casts.

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