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Thread: Frankie/Heidecke Closed. Leaf AFi is now dead.

  1. #51
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Frankie/Heidecke Closed. Leaf AFi is now dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by foto-z View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there a problem that the new CFV back doesn't rotate? And isn't the flash sync only 1/125 on the 203FE? Is there metering with the waist level finder? Autofocus? Colour temperature sensor? etc. They are such different products. I don't see the Hasselblad V focal plane system as competing with the Hy6 at all. The Hy6 is clearly more similar to the Hasselblad H.

    Phase clearly has a stake in the Mamiya 645 platform, but that is a pretty limited platform. Seems to be no issue for landscape shooters, but I bet the Hasselblad has a much higher share of the fashion crowd. Phase needs a platform to compete with the Hasselblad. Just my $0.02.

    Phase needs a new body and i think Graham every Phase owner would say the same thing. Now be it a leaf shutter or not in that body I am not so sure it matters to the greatest degree, it certainly needs to get to 1/250 no question and let's face it we all came from 35mm without leaf shutters and got by but the Phase body certainly needs 1/250 if not some leaf lenses as well. The S2 will have that option and just by the specs directly geared to fashion shooters.
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    Re: Frankie/Heidecke Closed. Leaf AFi is now dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by foto-z View Post
    Phase clearly has a stake in the Mamiya 645 platform, but that is a pretty limited platform. Seems to be no issue for landscape shooters, but I bet the Hasselblad has a much higher share of the fashion crowd. Phase needs a platform to compete with the Hasselblad. Just my $0.02.
    What is easier to handle for Phase - to establish a second platform (and therefore jeopardize the Phamiya to some extend) or to provide leaf shutter lenses for the Phamiya?

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    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Frankie/Heidecke Closed. Leaf AFi is now dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    What is easier to handle for Phase - to establish a second platform (and therefore jeopardize the Phamiya to some extend) or to provide leaf shutter lenses for the Phamiya?
    What is wrong with giving their customers the choice? Should Canon offer just one DSLR? How many companies can you think of which don't offer any choice at all? Far from jeopardizing things for Phase, it would help them to cover the whole market.

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    Re: Frankie/Heidecke Closed. Leaf AFi is now dead.

    My guess and this is a guess with no inside info. but I think Mamiya was in a little financial trouble in the past and reason some things did not come out or promised to come out but with the recent investment from Phase I think this will change and we will be seeing a lot of product hit the streets before years end. I'm hoping at least but this is my gut feeling and I am guessing we will see a new body shortly and those promised leaf lenses. Okay fingers crossed and hope I am guessing correctly but I agree they need to up the game some. If it is going to get down to Hassy/Phase and the Leica S2 than let's admit it the Phase body has the short end of the stick.
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    Subscriber Member Georg Baumann's Avatar
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    Re: Frankie/Heidecke Closed. Leaf AFi is now dead.

    Same thougths Guy, I have only very little doubts about it, the new and improved bodies will come this year.

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    Re: Frankie/Heidecke Closed. Leaf AFi is now dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by foto-z View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there a problem that the new CFV back doesn't rotate? And isn't the flash sync only 1/125 on the 203FE? Is there metering with the waist level finder? Autofocus? Colour temperature sensor? etc. They are such different products. I don't see the Hasselblad V focal plane system as competing with the Hy6 at all. The Hy6 is clearly more similar to the Hasselblad H.

    Phase clearly has a stake in the Mamiya 645 platform, but that is a pretty limited platform. Seems to be no issue for landscape shooters, but I bet the Hasselblad has a much higher share of the fashion crowd. Phase needs a platform to compete with the Hasselblad. Just my $0.02.
    Actually, the sync speed is 1/90th with the 200 series cameras, which is okay in the studio, but not so good for fill outdoors ... however, with the 500 series lenses mounted on the 200 series cameras all shutter speeds are available up to 1/500th are available ... basically the camera can be a two shutter system depending on which lenses you use. It's not an either or situation with the 200 cameras.

    NO, the new CVF/39 doesn't rotate ... the full 39 meg 1.1X use of the sensor is limited to landscape orientation ... especially when using the waist level finder ... same as the Leaf AFi which doesn't offer a rotating back either.

    Since the meter is in the camera body on the 200 cameras, there are finders that will allow shooting the camera on it's side, I know, I have one : -)


    However, I can also use this same back on my RZ Pro-II which does have a rotating back.

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    Re: Frankie/Heidecke Closed. Leaf AFi is now dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    My guess and this is a guess with no inside info. but I think Mamiya was in a little financial trouble in the past and reason some things did not come out or promised to come out but with the recent investment from Phase I think this will change and we will be seeing a lot of product hit the streets before years end. I'm hoping at least but this is my gut feeling and I am guessing we will see a new body shortly and those promised leaf lenses. Okay fingers crossed and hope I am guessing correctly but I agree they need to up the game some. If it is going to get down to Hassy/Phase and the Leica S2 than let's admit it the Phase body has the short end of the stick.
    I have no doubt what-so-ever that Phase/Mamiya will address that in spades.

    The H is long in the tooth also ... so maybe some developments there also ... abeit slower since the need isn't as pressing.

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    Subscriber Member Georg Baumann's Avatar
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    Re: Frankie/Heidecke Closed. Leaf AFi is now dead.

    They all should get up their butts in finally make bodies and lenses all water and dust proof, so I can go out here in Ireland in any condition.

    Raining buckets here....

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    Re: Frankie/Heidecke Closed. Leaf AFi is now dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by foto-z View Post
    What is wrong with giving their customers the choice? Should Canon offer just one DSLR?
    Ah, okay, a Physe6 taking Mamiya glass would be a different thing, I agree.

    There is nothing wrong at all with choices ... as long as it is profitable for the company. I think none is really interessted in another company (Phase) going down the drain...

    If they can produce and sell the camera for a competitive price and if the whole thing fits into their overall plans maybe they are going to do it.
    So back to my initial point: when the leaf shutter lenses for the Phamiya are there you have your competition for Hasselbald H. Phase doesn't need the AFi to compete here (though a revolving P65+ on an AFi is certainly sexy - but the H3D2-50/60 will likely have no revolving back either). Maybe Phase wants the AFi, I don't know, but they certainly don't need it.

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    Re: Frankie/Heidecke Closed. Leaf AFi is now dead.

    Folks, I am both a pragmatist and a student of history... I'll point out we went through a similar debate when Contax folded -- every Contax shooter wanted some savior to come in and keep the line alive. Heck, even ex-Contax shooters like me wanted to see a savior. There was even talk about users forming a company to continue production. But we all know how that ended. And unfortunately, the story is more than likely going to have the same ending for the Hy6 regardless of how many of us want it to be different.
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    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Frankie/Heidecke Closed. Leaf AFi is now dead.

    Jack, I think that's a bit different. If I remember correctly, Zeiss wanted to save the Contax but Kyocera didn't play ball (they had exclusive right to manufacture which they wouldn't relinquish). If Kyocera had not been so difficult, the C645 would have survived and perhaps become Phase's preferred partner rather than Mamiya. Oh well, it's all history now.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Frankie/Heidecke Closed. Leaf AFi is now dead.

    Agreed Graham, it was a different scenario as respects the details, but at the end of the day still pretty similar from the macro (macro in the economic, not photographic sense!) perspective...
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    Re: Frankie/Heidecke Closed. Leaf AFi is now dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Actually, the sync speed is 1/90th with the 200 series cameras, which is okay in the studio, but not so good for fill outdoors ... however, with the 500 series lenses mounted on the 200 series cameras all shutter speeds are available up to 1/500th are available ... basically the camera can be a two shutter system depending on which lenses you use. It's not an either or situation with the 200 cameras.

    NO, the new CVF/39 doesn't rotate ... the full 39 meg 1.1X use of the sensor is limited to landscape orientation ... especially when using the waist level finder ... same as the Leaf AFi which doesn't offer a rotating back either.

    Since the meter is in the camera body on the 200 cameras, there are finders that will allow shooting the camera on it's side, I know, I have one : -)


    However, I can also use this same back on my RZ Pro-II which does have a rotating back.
    Leaf offered a rotating sensor in the AFI, IMO even more advanced than a rotating back.

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    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Frankie/Heidecke Closed. Leaf AFi is now dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    Leaf offered a rotating sensor in the AFI, IMO even more advanced than a rotating back.
    Have to disagree with you there. If you rotate the whole back, then the LCD's orientation matches the sensor. Nothing else makes sense.

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    Re: Frankie/Heidecke Closed. Leaf AFi is now dead.

    My guess is that when you rotate the sensor in the Afi, the LCD crops accordingly. That's not bad!
    My 64M question is why Hasselblad didn't do something like this in the CFV39 back. It beats me, other than patents. The CFV39 is 100% the exact back for a built-in rotating sensor in a must be stationary back.
    I swear to god, I'd be at my bank early tomorrow for a loan to buy it.

    In the meantime, 30 minutes ago, I spent 3K usd in a new 5D2 and accesories. As the world turns...

    Eduardo


    Quote Originally Posted by foto-z View Post
    Have to disagree with you there. If you rotate the whole back, then the LCD's orientation matches the sensor. Nothing else makes sense.

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    Re: Frankie/Heidecke Closed. Leaf AFi is now dead.

    Over on LL someone thought that the Hasselblad I-Adapter system would allow attaching the CFV-39 in the portrait orientation. Does anyone know how this works?

    I don't believe that the CFV-39 is any competition for the Hy6 or AFi. The 203FE or 205FCC, nice as they are, are still legacy products without modern niceties like autofocus or focus bracketing, etc. I am sure that the CFv-39 will make a number of people very happy, and hey, I would love to own a 203FE/CFV-39 combo myself, but that doesn't mean it competes at the current cutting edge.
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    Re: Frankie/Heidecke Closed. Leaf AFi is now dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Over on LL someone thought that the Hasselblad I-Adapter system would allow attaching the CFV-39 in the portrait orientation. Does anyone know how this works?

    I don't believe that the CFV-39 is any competition for the Hy6 or AFi. The 203FE or 205FCC, nice as they are, are still legacy products without modern niceties like autofocus or focus bracketing, etc. I am sure that the CFv-39 will make a number of people very happy, and hey, I would love to own a 203FE/CFV-39 combo myself, but that doesn't mean it competes at the current cutting edge.
    Agreed.

    However, I liked using a Leica M over the "cutting edge" Contax G ... and many people including myself like the shooting experience of the V camera in a similar way. Cutting edge doesn't always mean "better" to everyone all of the time.

    BTW, the iAdapter system is for CF and CF-II backs which do not have an integrated mount allowing it to be used on a number of different cameras. The CFV mount is integrated and is a V mount.

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    Re: Frankie/Heidecke Closed. Leaf AFi is now dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    Leaf offered a rotating sensor in the AFI, IMO even more advanced than a rotating back.
    The Leaf rotating sensor is indeed a wonder. I was very taken by the idea ... until I saw the price tag ... an amount I would be unwilling to spend on a V system.

    Besides, it is useless for my purposes since I use 203FE V cameras ... on which none of the Leaf backs will work.

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    Re: Frankie/Heidecke Closed. Leaf AFi is now dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Folks, I am both a pragmatist and a student of history... I'll point out we went through a similar debate when Contax folded -- every Contax shooter wanted some savior to come in and keep the line alive. Heck, even ex-Contax shooters like me wanted to see a savior. There was even talk about users forming a company to continue production. But we all know how that ended. And unfortunately, the story is more than likely going to have the same ending for the Hy6 regardless of how many of us want it to be different.
    agreed. Most likely.

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    Re: Frankie/Heidecke Closed. Leaf AFi is now dead.

    Yes, ditto times two. I felt it with so many, xpan, et. al. The technology will not be sold as not to create more competition for themselves. Just leave it in the vault and move on is their thoughts. The new owners of the AFi system must be up in arms.

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    Smile Re: Frankie/Heidecke Closed. Leaf AFi is now dead.

    Marc: Wouldn't you buy a CFV39 with a Verto-like rotating sensor as in the Leaf? It certainly add to the price but you'd be able to use the V cameras as they were designed in the first place.
    You'd buy it today and I'd buy it from you in 3 years time.
    Eduardo

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    The Leaf rotating sensor is indeed a wonder. I was very taken by the idea ... until I saw the price tag ... an amount I would be unwilling to spend on a V system.

    Besides, it is useless for my purposes since I use 203FE V cameras ... on which none of the Leaf backs will work.

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    Re: Frankie/Heidecke Closed. Leaf AFi is now dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uaiomex View Post
    Marc: Wouldn't you buy a CFV39 with a Verto-like rotating sensor as in the Leaf? It certainly add to the price but you'd be able to use the V cameras as they were designed in the first place.
    You'd buy it today and I'd buy it from you in 3 years time.
    Eduardo
    Eduardo, while I love the V system ... I would not spend $25 to $30K on a digital back for it. $14K is already enough to give me pause.

    If I wanted that, and was willing to invest that kind of serious cash, I could have already bought the Leaf rotating sensor back with a V mount that does exist.

    If it were for a 500 series camera, I probably wouldn't even spend the $14K since there are a number of refurb digital backs available that at least offer the ability to rotate the back manually.

    The only reason this is interest is to use on a 203FE ... on which no other digital back works. Even at $14K I gotta think hard about whether I want to invest that kind of money. Probably, but something has to go bye-bye to pay for it.

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