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Thread: Arca Swiss RM3D

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    Arca Swiss RM3D

    I just finished watching a 30 minute video on the Arca Swiss RM3D. It was produced by Michael Reichmann and features Mark Dubovoy. The link to the video is http://www.luminous-landscape.com/vi...3d-video.shtml.

    This camera has been in the works for quite some time but the final results look like it was worth the wait.

    Woody

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    Re: Arca Swiss RM3D

    It looks neat, but the focusing thing has me stumped. They go to all sorts of lengths to build in a super-fine focusing mechanism, and add an ultra-accurate electronic focusing aid, but you cannot see where you point it? Was there some mechanism to transfer or verify the correct focus, or do you have to dial it in yourself with just a number to go by? The special viewfinder can help you visualize your framing if you shift, with various lenses, and it can tilt, but how do you verify the focus in the spots you are interested in?

    It seems more advanced technologically than the arTec, but I am not sure that it gets better results in the end, due to these issues.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Arca Swiss RM3D

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    or do you have to dial it in yourself with just a number to go by?
    a laser distometer does the trick here. If the indication of the focussing mechanism is fine enough (seems so) you just set the accurate distance on the scale. The indications of lenses with helical mount as the arTec, Alpas and Cambos use are simply to rough for this kind of focus setting (at least if you shoot wide open).
    I find this a very, very interessting approach!
    Am curious about the price as well... I think this camera is not a bargain.

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    Re: Arca Swiss RM3D

    Here's my off the wall assessment - looks like we're getting closer to having a technical camera with close to the same capably of a DSLR. The viewfinder/electronic focusing aid maybe just a couple short steps away. If this were to happen then what do we have?

    I watched the video twice. After my first viewing I thought neat, I like it. The second viewing left me with doubts. Too many gadgets to loose in the field. While I originally like the idea of the shutter release I agree with Michael - it's only a matter of time before it's lost. Was the second release a standard option or was it sent as a just in case?

    Anyone have any idea of the cost?

    Just my idle thoughts...

    Don
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    Re: Arca Swiss RM3D

    oh... I am not quite sure but I think I've read you have to send them your back so that they can adjust the lenses to your back (think you'd have to do it just the first time and they store the data).
    This would be a show stopper - I'd order from Arca Swiss, no problem, but I'd never send something to Arca, especially not my DBs.
    Can someone confirm this or am I confused here?

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    Re: Arca Swiss RM3D

    That new focusing device might be perfect for certain situations. For example, if a photographer were to shoot a fashion model in front of a plain cove then the new focusing device might be able to accurately lock on to the model since there wouldn't be any other distractions within the frame. I really like the idea of having multiple focusing methods and then choosing the correct one for the situation....I'm currently in the market for a tech camera and would be very interested to learn more about this new Arca

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    Re: Arca Swiss RM3D

    I personally is a fan of Arca, and have used Arca LF cameras and other gears for many years. I watched the video last night, and IMHO, it sounds too complicated for a MF technical camera. I am not discouraging any innovations, however, I would rather have a simple Alpa or a DSLR with electronic AF. One complaint about Arca Swiss is, as of today, they have not set up an official website yet. No wonder all of us are trying to figure out how to use these new toys ...

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    Re: Arca Swiss RM3D

    These prices were listed here last summer (http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showpo...postcount=12):

    ARCA-SWISS R-Line:
    No. 017069 ARCA-SWISS Rm3d black Camera body incl. Groundglass screen and Fresnel Lens $5,530
    No. 017045 ARCA-SWISS Rl3d black Camera body incl. Groundglass screen and Fresnel Lens $6,510
    No. 161008 Vario Finder (Rm3d and Rl3d) Vario Finder 120 (24-210mm) $1,330
    E-Module Electronic leveling Aid and distance metering - pricing TBA (approx. $1500)

    Rodenstock / Linos APO-Sironar Digital HR / R -bayonet
    4.5/28mm Copal - incl. lensboard, mask, focus drum and calibration - $6,252
    4.5/28mm Copal Press - incl. lensboard, mask, focus drum and calibration - $6,296
    4/35mm Copal - incl. lensboard, mask, focus drum and calibration - $3,702
    4/35mm Copal Press - incl. lensboard, mask, focus drum and calibration - $3,745
    4/60mm Copal - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $3,221
    4/60mm Copal Press - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $3,263
    4/100mm Copal - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $3,136
    4/100mm Copal Press - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $3,179
    5.6/180mm Copal - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $3,934
    5.6/180mm Copal Press - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $4,103
    ** Copal Press shutters not recommended when used with flash equipment

    Schneider Kreuznach APO-Digitar / R -bayonet
    5.6/24mm Copal 0 - incl. lensboard, mask, focus drum and calibration - $3,531
    5.6/35mm Copal 0 - incl. lensboard, mask, focus drum and calibration - $3,709
    2.8/28mm Copal 0 - incl. lensboard, mask, focus drum and calibration - $3,179
    5.6/47mm Copal 0 - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $2,673
    4.0/60mm Copal 0 - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $2,212
    5.6/72mm Copal 0 - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $2,776
    4.0/80mm Copal 0 - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $2,225
    5.6/80mm Copal 0 - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $2,519
    4.5/90mm Copal 0 - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $2,136
    5.6/100mm Copal 0 - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $2,411
    5.6/120mm Copal 0 - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $2,268
    5.6/120mm Macro Copal 0 - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $2,660
    5.6/150mm Copal 0 - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $2,743

    Mounting-cost for existing Lenses
    F= 24-35mm incl. lensboard, mask, focus drum and calibration - $910
    F= 38-210mm incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $1,078

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    Re: Arca Swiss RM3D

    stephengilbert, thanks very much for posting the prices

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    Re: Arca Swiss RM3D

    You're welcome, Mike. I came across that post when I was looking for information on the camera after looking at the LL video. No telling whether those prices are current, although if they aren't I imagine we'll hear soon enough.

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    Re: Arca Swiss RM3D

    Very strange that they are offering Press shutters. As these don't work with digital backs, it doesn't make sense to me....

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    Re: Arca Swiss RM3D

    At http://www.arca-shop.de/cameras/R-3D...3_131_149.html you can see he camera, accessories and prices.
    There's a 3D video as well and a lot of images.
    Last edited by thomas; 19th July 2009 at 01:39.

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    Re: Arca Swiss RM3D

    Given that with the degree of focusing accuracy that is actually possible with this device, any laser rangefinder system would have to be measuring precisely from the position of the DB's sensor to an incredible degree of accuracy, I can't see that there is a 'quick' focusing device possible with this camera, the sonic rangefinder that they are making to work with it is not exactly what I would call precision focusing.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Arca Swiss RM3D

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Given that with the degree of focusing accuracy that is actually possible with this device, any laser rangefinder system would have to be measuring precisely from the position of the DB's sensor to an incredible degree of accuracy, I can't see that there is a 'quick' focusing device possible with this camera, the sonic rangefinder that they are making to work with it is not exactly what I would call precision focusing.
    Ben, basically you are right. But I think you would still work with focussing on the GG with loupe when required. I use a laser distometer and though the indications on the lens are very rough however it works pretty well when I shoot stopped down. The indications e.g. on the Digitar 47XL are ... 3, 5, 10 meters and then infinity. Lot of space between the indications; there is no 8,3 meter indication. Even if I would have an offset of a few millimeters with the laser distometer it would be accurate enough at f5.6 or f8... I think.
    So whilst Arca Swiss' approach is maybe not the final solution for all purposes it is still a remarkable improvement over the current solutions especially regarding wide angle ... IMHO.
    If I'd shoot motifs that require dead on focus in critcal situations and wide open with the tech camera I'd tether all the time. I'd buy an appropriate tripod with a small plate and would put a small laptop on it.
    see: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/re...ethering.shtml
    Last edited by thomas; 19th July 2009 at 02:49.

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    Re: Arca Swiss RM3D

    It does sound like it would be worth using a rangefinder to get in the ballpark and then a small laptop with liveview from the DB to fine tune it. To be honest though if you're already using the laptop and LV then the rangefinder might be superfluous. I do think that this camera is still far from the 'handholdable' solution that MR likes to think it could be but then the guy always gets rather over excited about stuff...
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Arca Swiss RM3D

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    It does sound like it would be worth using a rangefinder to get in the ballpark and then a small laptop with liveview from the DB to fine tune it. To be honest though if you're already using the laptop and LV then the rangefinder might be superfluous. I do think that this camera is still far from the 'handholdable' solution that MR likes to think it could be but then the guy always gets rather over excited about stuff...
    I agree!
    Honestly I don't care about the finder of the Rm3d though it's certainly the best finder ever made for a camera like this. And the entire concept of the camera is actually based on the finder. But the one feature that engages my attention is the focussing mechansim. Actually nothing else.
    Of course some other details look promising as well and I find it kinda affecting how much attention Arca Swiss turns to those details... like e.g. the sticks with the indication of DOF at a certain aperture. But it depends on the back how much DOF you really get with a given lens.
    Then again with the tech camera I always shoot from tripod. My handholdable solution is my Contax...

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    Re: Arca Swiss RM3D

    I think it's worth mentioning that ARCA finally has a WEBSITE. This is new, yes? (See Post #7, above.)
    Last edited by stephengilbert; 19th July 2009 at 06:32.

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    Re: Arca Swiss RM3D

    They do? There isn't a link to it in the post you mention.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Arca Swiss RM3D

    Oops; it was linked above (# 12): http://www.arca-shop.de/cameras/R-3D...3_131_149.html

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    Re: Arca Swiss RM3D

    no, "arca-shop.de" is the German dealer: http://www.arca-shop.de/shop_content...uage=en&coID=4

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    Re: Arca Swiss RM3D

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    These prices were listed here last summer (http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showpo...postcount=12):

    ARCA-SWISS R-Line:
    No. 017069 ARCA-SWISS Rm3d black Camera body incl. Groundglass screen and Fresnel Lens $5,530
    No. 017045 ARCA-SWISS Rl3d black Camera body incl. Groundglass screen and Fresnel Lens $6,510
    No. 161008 Vario Finder (Rm3d and Rl3d) Vario Finder 120 (24-210mm) $1,330
    E-Module Electronic leveling Aid and distance metering - pricing TBA (approx. $1500)

    Rodenstock / Linos APO-Sironar Digital HR / R -bayonet
    4.5/28mm Copal - incl. lensboard, mask, focus drum and calibration - $6,252
    4.5/28mm Copal Press - incl. lensboard, mask, focus drum and calibration - $6,296
    4/35mm Copal - incl. lensboard, mask, focus drum and calibration - $3,702
    4/35mm Copal Press - incl. lensboard, mask, focus drum and calibration - $3,745
    4/60mm Copal - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $3,221
    4/60mm Copal Press - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $3,263
    4/100mm Copal - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $3,136
    4/100mm Copal Press - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $3,179
    5.6/180mm Copal - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $3,934
    5.6/180mm Copal Press - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $4,103
    ** Copal Press shutters not recommended when used with flash equipment

    Schneider Kreuznach APO-Digitar / R -bayonet
    5.6/24mm Copal 0 - incl. lensboard, mask, focus drum and calibration - $3,531
    5.6/35mm Copal 0 - incl. lensboard, mask, focus drum and calibration - $3,709
    2.8/28mm Copal 0 - incl. lensboard, mask, focus drum and calibration - $3,179
    5.6/47mm Copal 0 - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $2,673
    4.0/60mm Copal 0 - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $2,212
    5.6/72mm Copal 0 - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $2,776
    4.0/80mm Copal 0 - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $2,225
    5.6/80mm Copal 0 - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $2,519
    4.5/90mm Copal 0 - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $2,136
    5.6/100mm Copal 0 - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $2,411
    5.6/120mm Copal 0 - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $2,268
    5.6/120mm Macro Copal 0 - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $2,660
    5.6/150mm Copal 0 - incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $2,743

    Mounting-cost for existing Lenses
    F= 24-35mm incl. lensboard, mask, focus drum and calibration - $910
    F= 38-210mm incl. lensboard, extension tube, mask, focus drum and calibration - $1,078
    steven

    There are two versions of the RM3D. The first one was discontinued and the one in the video is really just reaching production. I would guess that the prices you described were for the older unit.

    Woody

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    Re: Arca Swiss RM3D

    MR seemed to be touching his nose a lot...does that mean he is in on some secret?

    i'm with Ron. seems too complex. my opinion is that no focusing aid, including the nifty viewer and sonic doodad, is really going to be able to take advantage of the extra fine focus ring they provide. that means gg and tethering

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    Re: Arca Swiss RM3D

    Woody,

    The prices were from a dealer who posted them here last summer, but the camera body price is close to the price posted on the current German dealer's website.

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    Re: Arca Swiss RM3D

    I have more concerns about the tilt mechanism with RM3D. Truly it's good to have built-in tilt movement with the RM3D body, however, unless the tilt can be perfectly zeroed there would be some issues with the focal plane alignment. For some extremely wide angle lenses, even 10um (yes, 1/100 millimeter) misalignment should cause some problem. So I guess we'll have to calibrate it frequently with a ground glass back as long as the tilt is applied.

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    Re: Arca Swiss RM3D

    Any ideas on how the camera will focus at close distances? Is it necessary to add spacers like on Alpa?

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    Re: Arca Swiss RM3D

    around 70 cm !

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