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Thread: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

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    Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Hi everyone. Well, it is now past midnight here on the East Coast which means I am no longer bound by the July 30th embargo (although I've only had this info for about six hours).

    So, here's the official USA info:

    Bodies: (Oct 09)
    S2 Camera Body - $22,995
    S2-P Body with Sapphire LCD Cover Glass and Platinum Service Package - $27,995

    Accessories:
    Multi Function Handgrip S - $1,295 (Jan 10)
    Battery Charger (spare/extra) - $399

    Service Packages for Bodies:
    S-Body Premium Service - $1,495
    S-Body Platinum Service - $3,795

    Lenses:
    Summarit-S 70mm f/2.5 ASPH - $4,495 (Oct 09)
    Summarit-S 70mm f/2.5 ASPH CS - $5,995 (Nov 09)
    APO-Tele-Elmar-S 180mm f/3.5 - $6,495 (Oct 09)
    APO-Tele-Elmar-S 180mm f/3.5 CS - $7,495 (Nov 09)
    APO-Macro-Summarit-S 120mm f/2.5 - $6,495 (Nov 09)
    APO-Macro-Summarit-S 120mm f/2.5 - $7,495 (Nov 09)
    Summarit-S 35mm f/2.5 ASPH - $5,295 (Dec 09)
    Summarit-S 35mm f/2.5 ASPH CS - $5,995 (Dec 09)

    Service Packages for Lenses:
    S-Lens Premium Service - $495
    S-Lens Platium Service - $995

    Bodies and lenses come with a transferable (first for Leica) warranty, whcih can be extended through purchase of one of the service packages. We are still waiting on some more details to come.

    David
    Last edited by dfarkas; 29th July 2009 at 21:48.
    David Farkas
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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    What a freaking Joke.

    400 for a charger ....

    probably over 50k for a real complet system....

    A Phase P40 or P45 H3DII 31 or 39 is cheaper...

    Well for the same money you can even get a H3DII-50 ....


    Sad but true.

    And I just saw it NO Wideangle lens till December, or probably more beginning of 2010....

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    $23k for the body......I guess they didn't think much of my marketing strategy. LOL!

    Gary

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    I was sooo hoping that this would be a successful system. Love the M series... and had the fantasy of someday having one of these. You're right... it could be something as simple as a $400 battery charger that convinces people that Leica isn't a real contender.

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    The lenses are around what I expected, but I think they are making a big mistake with that body price. A new platform has to offer *more value* to encourage early adopters and switching from competitor's products. Sell those bodies for $10K and you'll actually build a customer base who will spend more money on lenses etc.

    I think Sony made same mistake with the A900. Sure, a few people bought them but it's still a marginal platform. If they had sold the A900 for $1500, the growth of the platform could have been huge. Why do all these companies think so short term?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    What a freaking Joke. 400 for a charger ....
    Agreed, but I doubt they are using a bespoke battery, which means the charger will be an off-the-shelf item available on Ebay for $10.

    Leica isn't the only one doing this. Try asking a MFDB dealer for a price on a Firewire cable, or a standard battery. Profoto charges $35 for a $2.50 modelling light, etc

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Dave, Thanks very much for posting the prices

    It's an expensive camera, but about what I was expecting. Leica should be commended for their attempt to bring a camera to market that is promised to be built with very high standards... very refreshing

    I hope it does well

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    I'm with Mike
    Thank you Dave
    Good Luck Leica

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    At those prices, what kind of annual volume do you think Leica will get? And what volume will Leica need to keep the system in production long-term?
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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Leica stated that they plan for about 1000 a year.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Leica stated that they plan for about 1000 a year.
    I know. Do you think the market is there?
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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Good question. It is a tough time to enter. I think that if the spot they are aiming for (successful high-end DSLR users who want more quality, and can live with 1 AF point, 1.5 fps) is well chosen, they shouldn't really have trouble getting there. My personal opinion is that it is achievable, but I really don't know enough to be sure.

    Btw, the converted Euro price is *very* close to the price of a Hasselblad H3DII-39 without lens in Germany, so I guess they delivered what they promised (they never mentioned Dollar or Pound prices, just Euro prices). Whether that is too high remains to be seen.
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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Having shot 6x7 MF for many years but no experience whatsoever in Digital MF, could anyone explain what are the advantages of this system over 35mm knowing that it's only 1.25x factor over 24x36mm.
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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    I know. Do you think the market is there?
    Putting aside the 'short term' impact on sales of the current economic situation, which Leica could never have anticipated and taking into account the x% that are destined for Brunei etc, I'd not question their numbers.

    Presuming that there is a real advantage in using an S2, highest quality with handleability, or such, the volumes might be easily achieved.

    Reminder to self - call dealer and remove name from waiting list.

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    Having shot 6x7 MF for many years but no experience whatsoever in Digital MF, could anyone explain what are the advantages of this system over 35mm knowing that it's only 1.25x factor over 24x36mm.
    That is a good question - 56% larger sensor area isn't that much of a step up. Everything else being equal, image quality would not take a giant step up.

    Of course everything else isn't equal. But still, it would be a mistake to not compare to 24x36 DSLRs, as they will be in 2010 or 2011. How do you compare a price point of $3K to $25K for body only?
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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    That is a good question - 56% larger sensor area isn't that much of a step up. Everything else being equal, image quality would not take a giant step up.

    Of course everything else isn't equal. But still, it would be a mistake to not compare to 24x36 DSLRs, as they will be in 2010 or 2011. How do you compare a price point of $3K to $25K for body only?
    I think it's interesting - but if the quality step up is equivalent to the IQ boost of the M8 over 10mp APS dSLR cameras (which is a reasonable comparison) then I guess they don't have too much to worry about there.

    As for dSLR cameras on 2010 or 2011, I don't see any evidence than any of the manufacturers are trying for better IQ, they're all trying for higher speed, more MP and higher ISO, none of which seems to have a very positive effect on the 'feel' of the images.

    I'm sure that the bottom line with the S2 is that if it really is good, then they really shouldn't have a problem with 1000 cameras a year. But it must be as good as it's promised to be.

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    That is a good question - 56% larger sensor area isn't that much of a step up. Everything else being equal, image quality would not take a giant step up.

    Of course everything else isn't equal. But still, it would be a mistake to not compare to 24x36 DSLRs, as they will be in 2010 or 2011. How do you compare a price point of $3K to $25K for body only?
    I was also meaning the lens behaviour on the S2 which will not be significantly different than on 35mm. I'm not sure to which extent the S2 will produce shallower DOF and higher diffraction threshold that are typical for larger formats.

    So basically I'm contesting the S2 being a MF camera at all
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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    The official UK price (see bottom of 'Leica S2 Pricing' thread or the DPR release last night) for the S2 is 16K Pounds, w/15% VAT.

    The current price for a new H3DII-50 (like the S2, body only) from Robert White is 16K pounds ex VAT (15%).

    The price of an H3DII-31 KIT (with lens) from RW? just under 10K pounds, ex VAT.

    Btw, the converted Euro price is *very* close to the price of a Hasselblad H3DII-39 without lens in Germany, so I guess they delivered what they promised (they never mentioned Dollar or Pound prices, just Euro prices). Whether that is too high remains to be seen.
    Last edited by robmac; 30th July 2009 at 03:20.

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    So basically I'm contesting the S2 being a MF camera at all
    You could see it that way. Or you could view the S2 as a system with (presumably) a very high image quality, no matter how you classify sensor size.
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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I think it's interesting - but if the quality step up is equivalent to the IQ boost of the M8 over 10mp APS dSLR cameras (which is a reasonable comparison) then I guess they don't have too much to worry about there.

    As for dSLR cameras on 2010 or 2011, I don't see any evidence than any of the manufacturers are trying for better IQ, they're all trying for higher speed, more MP and higher ISO, none of which seems to have a very positive effect on the 'feel' of the images.

    I'm sure that the bottom line with the S2 is that if it really is good, then they really shouldn't have a problem with 1000 cameras a year. But it must be as good as it's promised to be.
    Yeah M8 IQ was great when it arrived.

    I'd say there are plenty of indications that the (higher end) DSLR market is going for higher image quality and not just megapixels or bells&whistles. A900, 5DII, D3x, D3, D700, to name a few. Olympus' statement that nobody needs more than 10 megapixels is also an indication of that the awareness is changing even in marketing departments.

    Or you could say that with S2 Leica is fully participating in the megapixel race.
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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    The official UK price (see bottom of 'Leica S2 Pricing' thread or the DPR release last night) for the S2 is 16K Pounds, w/15% VAT.

    The current price for a new H3DII-50 (like the S2, body only) from Robert White is 16K pounds ex VAT (15%).

    The price of an H3DII-31 KIT (with lens) from RW? just under 10K pounds, ex VAT.
    Robert White ain't cheap though. You can get much better. Leica, foot, pull trigger.
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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    I'd say there are plenty of indications that the (higher end) DSLR market is going for higher image quality and not just megapixels or bells&whistles. A900, 5DII, D3x, D3, D700, to name a few.
    Well, I would agree that the A900 seems to be heroically sacrificing high ISO for the sake of general IQ - but not the D3 and D700 - in comparison I'm still upset when I look back at the thousands of shots I took with those cameras. To me they are both excellent . . . and soulless, added to which I never could get the yellows and greens right for nature. I can't comment on the 5DII or the D3x as I haven't used them.

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Quite right - on both counts

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Robert White ain't cheap though. You can get much better. Leica, foot, pull trigger.

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Right now maybe a good time to be a Phase / Hassy dealer. Sorry folks this is so overpriced you would seriously need to have your head examined to consider this option. Not a lens under 4k is just amazing. Cheapest route for a 4 lens kit is 50k no matter how you slice it up. I feel for the Leica dealers, how much BS do you have to lay out for someone to even consider this. I have yet to see one person on 5 forums actually say they are still on the waiting list and buying. I could buy a P65+ today and 4 lenses and still have change to buy a Nikon to support it. This is just flat out SAD.

    It just confirmed my purchase though and at this point I am squarely looking at upgrading to the P40+ or be happy as a clam with my P30+ which I expect a huge rush on sales for it and the H3/31 now. These backs are so close to a 40 mpx back it really makes not much of a difference quality wise. You all seen the tests i have done and once you hit this level it is about features, not IQ which is clearly there .
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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    Of course everything else isn't equal. But still, it would be a mistake to not compare to 24x36 DSLRs, as they will be in 2010 or 2011. How do you compare a price point of $3K to $25K for body only?
    You don't. Start by looking at the pro models, the 1Ds3 and D3x, both of which are around $8k, and compare that to the naked S2 with normal warranty at $23k. Still a lot more, but you also get more. The price scale was never linear, and it will continue not being linear.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    The official UK price (see bottom of 'Leica S2 Pricing' thread or the DPR release last night) for the S2 is 16K Pounds, w/15% VAT.

    The current price for a new H3DII-50 (like the S2, body only) from Robert White is 16K pounds ex VAT (15%).

    The price of an H3DII-31 KIT (with lens) from RW? just under 10K pounds, ex VAT.
    The H3DII-39 with 80mm lens and VAT is 16100. There is no price given without the lens. I don't want to get into whether the lenses are equivalent, so mentally deduct a little for the lens. The S2 is 16000. I would say that the prices are extremely close, with the Hasselblad being a little cheaper. Leica always said that they would be competitive with similar products. I think they have delivered that.

    Another issue is whether the price is realistic. It is out of my reach, but that is not hard
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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    After all the interest evident on GetDPI in the S2 what will be really interesting to see is who is actually going to put their hand in their pocket and buy into the system.

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    The H3DII-39 with 80mm lens and VAT is 16100. There is no price given without the lens. I don't want to get into whether the lenses are equivalent, so mentally deduct a little for the lens. The S2 is 16000. I would say that the prices are extremely close, with the Hasselblad being a little cheaper. Leica always said that they would be competitive with similar products. I think they have delivered that.

    Another issue is whether the price is realistic. It is out of my reach, but that is not hard
    Carsten not so sure anything is even reasonable close a brand new H3/39 with lens is about 21k in the states and so is a P40+ with lens and body. This starts way above those numbers I'm seeing 27500 for a S2 with the cheapest lens and not a P body. That's over 6k off the mark.
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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    After all the interest evident on GetDPI in the S2 what will be really interesting to see is who is actually going to put their hand in their pocket and buy into the system.
    I can tell you I know two owners of GetDPI are not even reaching for there pocket.
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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    You don't. Start by looking at the pro models, the 1Ds3 and D3x, both of which are around $8k, and compare that to the naked S2 with normal warranty at $23k. Still a lot more, but you also get more. The price scale was never linear, and it will continue not being linear.
    That's today (or last year). S2 product life must span 2010-2011 considering no realistic possibility of high volume - in that timeframe we'll surely see a number of DSLRs at the $3K pricepoint that take image quality further.
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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Well, I would agree that the A900 seems to be heroically sacrificing high ISO for the sake of general IQ - but not the D3 and D700 - in comparison I'm still upset when I look back at the thousands of shots I took with those cameras. To me they are both excellent . . . and soulless, added to which I never could get the yellows and greens right for nature. I can't comment on the 5DII or the D3x as I haven't used them.
    D3 at ISO 3200 vs D2x at ISO 3200 isn't IQ improvement? Re colors, all Nikon shooters don't have that problem.
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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    The CFV 39 option is looking very attractive

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I can tell you I know two owners of GetDPI are not even reaching for there pocket.
    That makes three of us then

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    D3 at ISO 3200 vs D2x at ISO 3200 isn't IQ improvement? Re colors, all Nikon shooters don't have that problem.
    No - they don't all shoot nature and especially evening light either.
    Lars - we're using a different definition of IQ, and of course I'm only voicing my opinion.
    I reckon there is a substantial difference in 'feel' between files from cameras which have been optimised for high ISO, and those that haven't.
    As for the difference between 3200 on the D3 and the D2x, of course, it's huge, and it's a major achievement, but I'm not interested in 3200 ISO, and it isn't what I was talking about.

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Strictly an amateur here, but with dreams of the S2 since it was announced. I'm crushed. At $15k I might still be drooling and on the hook. But at these prices, there's not a snowball's chance in hell. I hope someone buys one though. There's the real potential of it becoming a collector's item simply for the novelty and rarity of the thing down the road. Regardless of the image quality.

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Well, for once I wish I had been wrong... here's a quote from an entry I made a few months back on the S2 vs D3 etc thread....


    "......don't know if you need a new thread, but a lot of speculation, on what price SHOULD be. Based on Back prices,and remembering that you are getting camera and 'back', $20,000 rather than $15,000 seems like a more reasonable 'floor'.
    I don't think anyone would argue with a new Leica camera being $5,000. A 40MP bacK, $20,000 for SOTA would not be unreasonale, so my bet is

    $22,500.

    ........

    Victor

    PS We'll see. There are still so many $10,000,000 houses around (and selling) so $50,000 is a drop in the bucket

    ...but I doubt any are pros (except the next Warhol)

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    True, Guy, but the lens is not necessarily equivalent, so I think it is more fair to compare body prices, and they are very close. The true test of course is to look at the kit you need, and compare full prices. I won't be buying anyway, so this is a moot point for me.
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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    I'll stand pat with my MF system for a while (H3D 39 + 28, 80, 100, 150 and extender, plus legacy CZ 40 CLE and 50 CLE). If after watching the reviews and perhaps renting one it looks like the Leica system delivers more in terms of image quality or image charisma I'll consider it. I also need to see whether Leica delivers on service - Hasselblad's service is superb.



    I occasionally shoot book jackets or author photos. I shot a book jacket image of an author earlier this week, using mainly the H3d + 100 and an M8.2 + 75 Lux. Out of several hundred images all of the finalists selected by the client were from the Leica.

    Maybe its just me - maybe I'm just a natural range finder shooter. I've never loved the H3D'a ergonomics. But the point of the story is that it's premature to count Leica out.

  38. #38
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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    I just bought a Contax 645 and this makes that old Contax seem golden. :-) I can put a P25 or similar sized sensor on there and I'm good to go.

    Perhaps this thing will flop and I will be able to pick up one down the road six years from now at a substantial discount. I would LOVE to have one but I can't justify this price.

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    I'll join in and say I'm disappointed as well. While I had no immediate plans to go the S2 route (I'm still on the fence with the monobody concept), $23K for "only" 37.5 MP is pricing from a year ago.

    There are jokes about Leica selling these to dentists, but seriously--I cannot understand who they plan to sell to in quantity at these prices.

    Sad, too, because the MF market isn't exactly at its most robust, and I can't see Leica moving many of these, which does not bode well for the system. The glass seems delicious, but I suppose I won't be tasting.

    -Brad

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    There are people out there, I don't know if "photographers" is the right term, who buy a D3X and a 200mm f/2.0 to take photos of their cats and dogs (check Nikoncafe.com and try to understand), and if Leica can convince enough dentists and lawyers that this will be an instant classic, they will have no problems selling a few thousand of these. A company that can sell a white rangefinder camera for a premium price because it's white, can do things like that.

    As for "real" photographers, the situation is different, but not impossible. If I could afford it, I would clearly prefer the S2 to any traditional MF camera, simply because I feel more comfortable with the form factor and the fact that it seems more robust. And if there are others thinking like me, people who can afford this kind of camera, they will probably buy the Leica, because it's a camera they can live with.

    Hopefully, Leica has done their homework. My guess is that many of these cameras will be sold in Asia and the Middle East, at least to start with. That's where the money is these days.

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    I may be the odd man out here, but for a little company to engineer the development and tool up for an annual production run of only 1000 units, with manufacturing in Europe, these prices look amazing to me. If the average buyer spends $50k on their S2 kit, that's $50M in revenue; a pittance in the grand scheme of things.

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    OMG! $3,800 for an extra year of decent service? How long is the standard factory service coverage that comes with the camera?

    To make any sense it seems the CS lenses would be manditory. My goodness, those lens prices are simply breathtaking ... as in a punch to the solar plexus

    (Of course, this coming from a nut job that paid that much for a M 24/1.4 ASPH )

    $495 for premium service and $995 for platinum service on the lenses? What comes with the lenses ... "bottom of the pile service"?

    The gear pricing actually doesn't surprise me at all. The service stuff does. It could have been a way to really tighten up a relationship with professionals and demonstrate Leica's confidence in the product.

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    I may be the odd man out here, but for a little company to engineer the development and tool up for an annual production run of only 1000 units, with manufacturing in Europe, these prices look amazing to me. If the average buyer spends $50k on their S2 kit, that's $50M in revenue; a pittance in the grand scheme of things.
    personally, I'd welcome 50K in net revenue with no expenditures right now.

    I sure wouldn't spend it on 50K worth of gear to replace what I already have that gets the job done ... and that I'd have to sell at a ferocious rate of loss to get the S2.

    For me, that is the crux of the problem. The S2 could replace two or maybe 3 systems but they would never add up to 50K ... and would leave me short on some performance aspects.

  44. #44
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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    I agree. Quality costs. A friend once told me there was a factor of 10 btween something 'just working' and 'best of breed. I think he was low (Yugo at $8,000 to RR at $320,000 is more like 40 to 1)

    but in general it works. - a fine film camer (Nikon say) vs a Leica M, $500 vs $5,000

    It is not linear.

    That said, the market will be efficient in good times, so maybe Leica needs to be patient. Also, I have no doubt the S2 system will be as good, or better in some ways than Hasselblad-and you will spenf 40-50K new for that as well.

    In the end, quality (esp R&D) depends on the consumer willing to pay. Four season's did not drop rates in the recession, as it wants to protect the 'brand' as much as hold quality up. Leica is doing the same. Both companies would go bust if they reacted to price senitive markets. I am sure many canon toting sport event photographers in the midwest would think ANY MF is pie in the sky.

    So, some of use can't or won't spend for the S2. I will spring for a MB over a Honda, but not go to a Bentley.

    We all make trade-offs, but Monza has it right-R&D is expensive. Just remmeber this-no generic firm has brought out a NEW drug. If we all pay low, where will innovation come from?

    but healthcare is another story (and the Washington Post has decided to bore the DC area with pages of it!

    Sorry )

    Regards
    Victor

    PS If you can;t tell, it's a bad hair day

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Interesting. That would add up for me, selling a few thousand of these. I have absolutely no data in profit margins, but it's hard to see how even several thousand sales (not per year, mind you--I'm imagining several thousand, period) can constitute a business model.

    Does anybody know where Leica's break-even point is with the S2 in terms of unit sales? (Or put another way, is a sales volume of a few thousand units enough?)

    -Brad

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Well, at this point, even if much of what is commented on is real, the price point is too high, in my opinion. Given that there is no alternative market for anything compatible (lenses, second bodies, chargers, etc.), it appears as if Leica has once again set itself apart from the market that might actually buy and use this system as intended.

    This is quite disheartening. The lenses may be stellar (yet to be seen), but prices still seem over the top in light of Leica's touting how their new manufacturing process would make things cheaper to make. The body, while some will argue is a "body+back" for price purposes, is far beyond the pale compared to the 35mm DSLR that it more accurately mimics....in spite of the larger sensor with more pixels. I hear the arguments about pricing not be "linear", but the marketplace and users may have greater expectations of linearity in pricing, so Leica is going to have a very "non-linear" sell job to lay on folks to convince them to part with their money.

    Just my opinions. I had real hopes for this system to possibly replace a good chunk of gear, and to streamline things over supporting several systems, but the Leica prices just cannot work with my math (new or old). I wish them luck. I will wait to see actual results and for a used market to possibly develop next year or later....provided Leica is still around to sell these and service them ;-)

    LJ

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    While the prices seem high in today's distressed marketplace it wasn't that long ago that my Sinar kit and a couple of lenses were in the same ballpark price wise. The timing for Leica is unfortunate but you can't fault them for not anticipating the current economic downturn. If their pockets are deep enough they will wait this out and, if the product is as good as I think is likely, it will sell.

  48. #48
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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    David, that may be a compassionate way to look at things, but Leica, just like the rest of us, are trying to exist in this crappy economical climate. So, you are correct, that one cannot fault them for not predicting the present conditions, but they can be faulted for not adjusting their pricing and sales plan to better reflect those conditions. They have seen this developing just as long as customers, competitors, and potential customer clients have seen it. If one looks at recovery trends, whether they think they are optimistic or not, things look like a long slow climb up, and cost consciousness is going to be a new mantra for quite a while for a lot of folks....even those that may have the ability to cover these costs. Personally, I think they should try to flood the market with bodies at a much more reasonable cost, and make up some margin over time with lens sales. The $23K price for the S2 alone is just over the top, in my thinking.

    LJ

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Leica, as expected, priced the S2 using the M8/DMR model. Old habits are hard to break (assuming you even want to break them), the KoolAid is freshly mixed in Solms and this one's obviously a strong batch.

    They'll likely sell their target 1000 units to the well-monied Leica faithful - the expected price justification from some is starting to intermingle with the shock from the rest on LUF already.

    However, that 1000 units WON'T be to the 10% of the typical MF market they spoke of. Those folks are just shaking their heads - as they're unwilling, especially in today's world, to take a Solms-derived time travel trip back to 2007-2008 MFDB pricing - especially for a new entrant with an iffy (digital) new-model intro, S&S history, etc.

    The majority of the actual buyers of the S2 at these $$$ will never have been in the market for a Hassy or Phamiya. However, now that Leica has an SLR back in the game and it happens to have a > 24x36mm sensor, they will become Leica-specific MF customers. In short, they won't be stealing share, but creating a small, niche market that happens to own what could be described as either an MF camera or a large DSLR depending on your mood and ego.

    A handful of 'superstar' pros may acquire one to play with, but it will be one of many high-end systems they own - the bulk of which will derive the bulk of their revenue-generating work. As to the service such folks will receive - it's of little concern. If you're public profile is high enough, premium white-glove swap-out, etc service is a given from ANY vendor who's not an utter idiot.

    Had Solms swapped the Kool-Aid for some Red Bull and looked fwd instead of backward at Leica 'tradition' (one of the great hazards of having a CEO/Owner who is one of the faithful), things might have been VERY, VERY different - assuming word got around that their service and support measured up. This was a chance, (very) arguably THE chance, for Leica (technology aside) to remodel itself and it's business habits -- and it stuck to the formula.

    The trick will be as to whether or not, as Hassy and Phase (and Nikon, Canon and Sony) keep lowering the price/performance bar if that 1000 unit market (which will top-out in body sales relatively quickly in terms of years and units) will be enough to take Leica fwd comfortably.
    Last edited by robmac; 30th July 2009 at 08:36.

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    Re: Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

    Amazing. I was actually quite interested in this system, though expecting it to be a bit too pricey to justify. I did not anticipate the body price being this high in this economic climate though.

    I could sell my Mamiya/Phase One kit with seven lenses, and sell my Canon kit with seven lenses and come up with less than a third of the cost of the S2 body and four lenses without premium service. I guess I'll pass.

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