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Thread: Jenoptik leaves MF market, Sinar continues alone.

  1. #1
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    Jenoptik leaves MF market, Sinar continues alone.

    German press release:

    Jenoptik stellt Geschäft mit Mittelformatkameras ein. Ergebnis im 2. Quartal 2009 dadurch einmalig belastet.

    Jena, 29. Juli 2009

    Sowohl im 2. Quartal als auch im Gesamtjahr 2009 positives Konzernbetriebsergebnis vor Sondereinflüssen erwartet.

    Aufgrund der Insolvenz des Lieferanten Franke & Heidecke sowie des signifikant beeinträchtigten Geschäftspotenzials im Bereich Mittelformatkameras (High-End) hat der Konzern entschieden, sich aus diesem nachhaltig negativen Geschäft zurückzuziehen sowie die damit verbundene Standort- und Portfoliobereinigung im In- und Ausland vorzunehmen. Bestehende Lieferverpflichtungen wurden im gegenseitigen Einvernehmen mit dem Kunden beendet.

    Mit dieser Maßnahme fokussiert sich Jenoptik weiter auf die Kerngeschäftsbereiche, das Ergebnis des 2. Quartals wird hierdurch jedoch kurzfristig beeinflusst. Die daraus resultierenden Sondereinflüsse, die infolge von Wertberichtigungen größtenteils nicht liquiditätswirksam sind, belaufen sich auf insgesamt 7,9 Mio Euro und wurden vollständig im Konzern-EBIT des 2. Quartals 2009 verarbeitet. Das Betriebsergebnis vor diesem Sondereffekt wird im 1. Halbjahr 2009 mit etwa 3 Mio Euro positiv ausfallen (31.03.2009: 0,4 Mio Euro). Darin enthalten sind rund 1 Mio Euro laufende Verluste aus diesem Geschäftsfeld, die in Zukunft entfallen werden.

    Der Markt für High-End Kameramodule ist durch das aktuelle konjunkturelle Umfeld stark beeinträchtigt und beeinflusst die Geschäftsentwicklungen der Marktteilnehmer negativ. Auch Jenoptik ist hiervon betroffen und zieht sich aus dem Geschäft mit Mittelformatkameras zurück.

    Das Geschäft mit Mittelformatkameras ist in dem Schweizer Unternehmen SINAR AG zusammengefasst. Garantie- und Serviceleistungen für die bisher verkauften Mittelformatkamerasysteme wird die SINAR AG weiter vollumfänglich erfüllen und auch nach wie vor professionelle analoge und digitale Fachkamera-Lösungen vertreiben. Das Geschäft der SINAR AG wird künftig außerhalb der Jenoptik weitergeführt werden.

    Digital-Imaging-Aktivitäten der Jenoptik werden uneingeschränkt fortgeführt.

    Das Thema der digitalen Bildverarbeitung ist und bleibt eine Kernkompetenz der Jenoptik für die Bereiche Medizintechnik, Life Science und Verkehrssicherheitstechnik bis hin zur militärischen Aufklärung. Diese Kernkompetenz wird Jenoptik beibehalten und ausbauen.

    Konzern-Betriebsergebnis vor Sondereinflüssen soll 2009 positiv ausfallen.

    Jenoptik erwartet aufgrund des weiterhin stabilen Beitrages der Sparte Verteidigung & Zivile Systeme sowie der Präsenz in verschiedenen Märkten im Gesamtjahr 2009 ein positives Konzern-Betriebsergebnis vor Sondereinflüssen.

    Die ausführlichen Zahlen zum 2. Quartal und über das 1. Halbjahr 2009 wird der Jenoptik-Konzern am 13. August veröffentlichen

    English translation by Google, minor corrections by me, for clarity:

    Jenoptik ceases production of medium format cameras. Earnings in the 2nd Quarter of 2009 take a one-time hit.

    Jena, 29 July 2009

    Both the 2nd Quarter and total year 2009 expects positive operating profit before special costs.

    Due to the insolvency of the supplier Franke & Heidecke, as well as significantly negative growth in the business potential of medium-format cameras (high end), the Group has decided to withdraw from this sustained losing business, and the associated portfolio at home and abroad. Existing delivery obligations have been cancelled by mutual agreement with the customers.

    This measure focuses on Jenoptik's core business, however the result of the 2nd quarter will be affected in the short term. The resulting special factors, the result of largely non-cash adjustments are effective, totaled 7.9 million euros and have been fully consolidated EBIT in the 2nd Quarter of 2009 processed. The operating result before this special effect is in the 1st Half of 2009 with approximately 3 million euro positive (31.03.2009: 0.4 million euros). This includes approximately 1 million ongoing losses from this business in the future will be dropped.

    The market for high-end camera modules is reduced by the current economic environment, and influences the business developments of the market participants negatively. Jenoptik is also affected, and thus withdraws from the business with medium format camera.

    The medium format cameras business is concentrated with the Swiss company SINAR AG. SINAR AG will fully meet warranty and Services for the previously sold medium-format camera systems, and will continue to sell professional analog and digital camera specialist solutions. The business of SINAR AG will continue separately from Jenoptik.

    Digital imaging activities of the Jenoptik be fully pursued.

    The field of digital imaging is, and remains a core of Jenoptik in the areas of medical technology, life science and road safety technology to the military intelligence. This core will be maintained and expanded by Jenoptik.

    Consolidated operating income before special items in 2009 was positive.

    Jenoptik expected due to the continued stable contribution of the Division of Defense & Civil Systems and the presence in various markets for the full year 2009, a positive consolidated operating profit before special items.

    The detailed figures on the 2nd Quarter and on the 1st Half of 2009, will be posted by the Jenoptik Group on 13 August.

    Interestingly, there is no specific news about the Hy6, so one can surmise that negotiations continue behind the scenes. photoscala.com announces the end of the Hy6, but no official info is available yet.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Jenoptik leaves MF market, Sinar continues alone.

    Not what I'd call good news for Sinar owners

  3. #3
    smei_ch
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    Re: Jenoptik leaves MF market, Sinar continues alone.

    An official english version is on Jenoptik's site:

    http://www.jenoptik.com/cps/rde/xchg...eLocaleAttr=en

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    Re: Jenoptik leaves MF market, Sinar continues alone.

    Don't think this information is being lost on Leica. After dropping plans for an R10 (just a few short months after leading all to believe one was in the works) and seeing the firestorm of outrage over it's absurd pricing scheme for the not yet released S2, this project may yet be "stillborn".

    The writing is all over the walls for those not too blind to read it: the economy will get worse before it improves. Neil Barofsky, chief watchdog over the 700 billion TARP bank bailout program issued a report last week stating that "the amount of taxpayer money theoretically put at risk in the bank bailout - once Federal Reserve, FDIC and other programs are counted - is 23.7 trillion, not the widely cited figure of 700 billion." http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwa...sky/index.html

  5. #5
    edwinb
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    Smile Re: Jenoptik leaves MF market, Sinar continues alone.

    Sinar alone has survived as a european manufacturer unlike Hasselblad etc
    The flexibility and range of Sinar systems and components is without comparison
    I answered a question 'in the other place' and looked up the range of cameras the Emotion 75 LV is designed to fit with and it ranges from old to new, mf to studio rostrum camera systems which is enormously more than any other manufacturer.
    so forgive me for being optimistic about the future but I think the Sinar's more open flexible (dare I say 'Industry Leading' ) designs put it in a stronger position than others.
    This is shown by the continious support calls we deal with (from older leaf system owners for example and yes, we do still supply Volare power supplies) right through to newer issues with Leaf Afi and Rollei HY6 owners who we are also able to welcome along with innumerable view camera users
    Edwin

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    Re: Jenoptik leaves MF market, Sinar continues alone.

    Edwin, as the owner of a Hy6/75LV kit I'm certainly rooting for Sinar. Nevertheless, from the viewpoint of an end user I can't help but wonder about the future. With the failure of F&H how do I get my lenses repaired... how long will parts be available for my Hy6 should it need service... how much of a hassle will I need to go through for warranty repairs now that Sinar-Bron is rebranding itself to reflect the elimination of Sinar... when will firmware issues with the Hy6 be addressed. These are troubling questions that are not addressed by a general statement of how flexible the Sinar system is.

  7. #7
    edwinb
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    Re: Jenoptik leaves MF market, Sinar continues alone.

    Congratulations on choosing what I see is a superb piece of engineering that I can only aspire to own.
    There are no issues with warranty for any Sinar equipment and I am totally confident in the Sinar support.
    That includes of course the lens supplied by Sinar.
    As technical support I can witness the very high reliability of the sinar equipment so unless you already have a problem you should not consider the liklyhood to be very high and therefor not of large concern.

    There are always software/firmware issues which is why there are regular updates. I am not aware of any significant issues with the current versions of captureshop / HY6. I remain confident in this area also.

    I dont know anything about Sinar-Bron

    Edwin

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    Re: Jenoptik leaves MF market, Sinar continues alone.

    Edwin, it would be helpful if you would clarify your position. Are you working for Sinar? On which continent?

    Thanks.
    Carsten - Website

  9. #9
    edwinb
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    Re: Jenoptik leaves MF market, Sinar continues alone.

    [QUOTE = carstenw; 121697] Edwin, it would be helpful if you would clarify your position. Are you working for Sinar? On which continent?

    Thanks. [/ QUOTE]

    Thank you for your interest.
    I am a professional Digital Systems engineer with experience as technical support for Leaf and Sinar systems. In the application of digitisation I was also a client of Sinar for several years.
    Sinar is one of our distributed brands and I provide technical support to all our clients including Sinar and other system users. I am motivated to provide complete and accurate information on the systems I support through a number of websites which I develop in different directions often in response to these forum discussions.

    I follow the technical conversations and became verbose in the last couple of days because I became disconcerted at the level of 'bad press' unnecessarily being generated around a subject I enjoy and about things I admire.

    The Sinar equipment in particular is a real pleasure to work with.

    I am based in London

    Edwin

  10. #10
    smei_ch
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    Re: Jenoptik leaves MF market, Sinar continues alone.

    It is very hard to understand how the Sinar management still stays completely silent. A very bad style, unprofessional. It reminds me fatally to F&H's acting. No updated information on their sites, and both still list the Hy6. This behaviour does not provide any confidence, as the situation of this system is crystal clear, no matter what any dealer with remaining stock tells.
    And it is a fact that dealers normally are informed last about significant changes, as the manufacturer doesn't want business disrupted by leaking information early, be it good or bad news.
    Last edited by smei_ch; 31st July 2009 at 20:52. Reason: typo

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    Re: Jenoptik leaves MF market, Sinar continues alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by smei_ch View Post
    It is very hard to understand how the Sinar management still stays completely silent. A very bad style, unprofessional. It reminds me fatally to F&H's acting. No updated information on their sites, and both still list the Hy6. This behaviour does not provide any confidence, as the situation of this system is crystal clear, no matter what any dealer with remaining stock tells.
    And it is a fact that dealers normally are informed last about significant changes, as the manufacturer doesn't want business disrupted by leaking information early, be it good or bad news.
    I just believe they first want to figure things out and then release press information. I also believe they dont want to announce an end of the Hy6 system until they are 100% for sure.
    Who owns future rights for the Hy6?
    Could only F&H build it or could another company build it as well?
    Would interest in Hy6 increase if bigger sensors become available?
    I agree that the longer they need for clarification the more customers will probably be lost.
    I still cant believe that they didnt find a solution to continue F&H.

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    Subscriber Member Georg Baumann's Avatar
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    Re: Jenoptik leaves MF market, Sinar continues alone.

    Interesting but nothing new, the "news" that Sinar produces losses for Jena, and that they try to get rid of Sinar, well the dogs on the street bark it since more than two months now.

    Assuming that there is some truth in all that barking, Salesfigures of Sinar systems are disheartening, and I am worried about their future prospects.

    Edwin,

    BETAMAX was also the better system, and vanished from the market in a heartbeat. I admire your optimism but believe this is rather wishful thinking. Jena got Sinar of the books now, and they are on themselves, no news yet from Feuerthalen, and in this case the old saying " No news is good news" does not apply, in opposite.

    It would have been a different story, if a joint press release from Jena and Feuerthalen would have been published at the same time, outlining the changes and future of Sinar....

    Silence from Feuerthalen in deed does not help the situation.

    I hope the best for them, but I fear the worst.

  13. #13
    edwinb
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    Re: Jenoptik leaves MF market, Sinar continues alone.

    Sinar has a massive worldwide installed base of camera systems and this provides a level of work with repairs, replacements and upgrades which is independent from digital backs and electronic systems which come and go quicker than the latest dieting plan.
    I think you would agree that in the studio camera area they are the VHS system and I think thats enough to guarentee their survival with or without a 'parent' company.
    M camera system (as a view camera shutter) provides an upgrade path for sinarcam2 systems for example.
    Edwin

  14. #14
    edwinb
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    Re: Jenoptik leaves MF market, Sinar continues alone.

    [QUOTE = Georg Baumann; 121883] .....

    It would have been a different story, if a joint press release from Jena and Feuerthalen would have been published at the same time, outlining the changes and future of Sinar ....
    *
    Silence from Feuerthalen in deed does not help the situation.

    I hope the best for them, but I fear the worst. [/ QUOTE]

    Swizerland is famous for its secrecy and I remember comments about RollsRoyce cars that if you had to ask you were not rich enough to own one!

    Edwin

  15. #15
    smei_ch
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    Re: Jenoptik leaves MF market, Sinar continues alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by edwinb View Post

    Swizerland is famous for its secrecy and I remember comments about RollsRoyce cars that if you had to ask you were not rich enough to own one!

    Edwin
    Some statements aren't even worth to be ignored.

    And: it's written "Switzerland"

  16. #16
    edwinb
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    Re: Jenoptik leaves MF market, Sinar continues alone.

    [QUOTE = smei_ch; 121985] Some statements are not even worth to be ignored.
    And: it's written "Switzerland": mad: [/ QUOTE]

    your right, I apolagise for that mispelt & ill-considered reply-

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    Re: Jenoptik leaves MF market, Sinar continues alone.

    Edwin -- is there any news of the 6x6 back for the Hy6? That is really the only thing that I would really like to see in order to stick it out with Sinar. I am a Rollei shooter, and currently use the Hy6 and 54LV. One of the reasons I bought the Hy6 was the promise of being able to shoot both digital medium format and 6x6 film on the same camera. I have seen photos of the prototype back, but its availability date kept getting pushed back until the collapse of F&H. It is sad that a camera that was marketed as being 6x6 can't even shoot 6x6! Do you think the back will ever be available, or if not, who would I talk to about trying to buy one of the prototypes (if they work)?
    My photos are here: http://www.stuartrichardson.com and more recent work here: http://stuartrichardson.tumblr.com/ Please have a look at my book!
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    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Jenoptik leaves MF market, Sinar continues alone.

    Stuart, as a backup/alternative you could always use your lenses on a Rollei 6008 with 6x6 back (unless you have AFD lenses). They are quite easy to find on the used market.

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    Re: Jenoptik leaves MF market, Sinar continues alone.

    Thanks Graham. That's what I have been doing. But I would much rather have a simple back I could bring with the Hy6, rather than bring the entire 6008AF body and associated accessories along too. It is bulky and heavy, requires different batteries, a large charger and so on. If you want to use the same lens, you have to dismount it, switch it out, take the Hy6 off the tripod, put the 6008AF up there, refocus and compose etc. It is like bringing another entire camera system when all I need is a back. I am still certainly glad I have the option, but if I could just get a back, then I could sell the 6008AF and just have what I need.
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    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Jenoptik leaves MF market, Sinar continues alone.

    That makes sense. I can only suggest contacting Sinar in Switzerland. They would know better than anyone.

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    Re: Jenoptik leaves MF market, Sinar continues alone.

    Yes, that's what I would have thought too! I contacted them when the news first broke, and they told me that, yes, the 6x6 back was available and in production, and that I should contact my dealer. So I contacted Greg King at Sinar USA, and he said that they were not available, and there would be no news for the moment because of the F&H production stoppage. He contacted Sinar Switzerland and told me that they were not currently available, but had no further information. Sinar Switzerland did not respond to my second message about finding a dealer in Europe when I wrote to them immediately after they told me it was in production.
    So frankly, I don't know what is going on, and it sounds like no one else does either. Or most likely, the person who told me they were available was mistaken. I was just hoping that Edwin might have some more up to date information.
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    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Jenoptik leaves MF market, Sinar continues alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    Sinar Switzerland did not respond to my second message about finding a dealer in Europe when I wrote to them immediately after they told me it was in production.
    You could try calling them directly (always best for a fast answer) or try emailing Helga Frorath at [email protected]

  23. #23
    edwinb
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    Re: Jenoptik leaves MF market, Sinar continues alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    ............... I was just hoping that Edwin might have some more up to date information.
    No I am sorry I do not have any further information on the 6x6 film adaptor
    I will come back to you on this.
    Edwin

  24. #24
    edwinb
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    Re: Jenoptik leaves MF market, Sinar continues alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    Edwin -- is there any news of the 6x6 back for the Hy6? ....... Do you think the back will ever be available, or if not, who would I talk to about trying to buy one of the prototypes (if they work)?
    As far as I can ascertain there are no working prototypes and I do not expect to hear any conclusive answers on products that are not currently available until the end of August. This also includes the 90 degree viewer which was asked by others. I do recommend the 45 degree prism finder from feedback I have received.
    Edwin

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    Re: Jenoptik leaves MF market, Sinar continues alone.

    Alright, thank you very much Edwin.
    My photos are here: http://www.stuartrichardson.com and more recent work here: http://stuartrichardson.tumblr.com/ Please have a look at my book!
    My lab is here: http://www.customphotolab.is and on facebook

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    Re: Jenoptik leaves MF market, Sinar continues alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by edwinb View Post
    As far as I can ascertain there are no working prototypes and I do not expect to hear any conclusive answers on products that are not currently available until the end of August. This also includes the 90 degree viewer which was asked by others. I do recommend the 45 degree prism finder from feedback I have received.
    Edwin
    I purchase the 45 degree finder for Sinar from F&H few month ago. I really like it. The Sinar version allows to rotate the back what I believe is not possible with other versions.
    I also have no info regarding the 6x6 back, only that the planned price was in the range around 1000€ what I thought was too expensive anyways.

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