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Thread: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

  1. #51
    ddk
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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Tim, you can get the rapid falloff from a variety of modifiers, any good rental place can you help you with selecting a few of them to try out. Smaller soft boxes and umbrellas will give you the fast fall out too, then feather the edges in post to taste.

    I went through Winters' site and imo while good its nothing special or exceptional, plenty of others out there doing exactly the same and better. The bulk of the effects, both lighting and otherwise are courtesy of Photoshop and not photographic genius; many of Graham's work posted here is head and shoulders above anything that I saw on that site. If this is what you're after take a good PS workshop, then buy one of the better plug-in suites and you're on your way to creating digital magic ala Mr. Winters.

  2. #52
    ddk
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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    This little girl tested every day of my 35 years of experience. She may have won the battle but ultimately you can win the war if you just have the patience...
    Guy, these images are delicious and wonderful, worth every effort you put into taking them!
    Last edited by ddk; 7th August 2009 at 11:13.

  3. #53
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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Thanks David.

    hey folks I just found this test Doug must have done on diffraction with a Phase 120 D macro and the Hassy 120 macro. Looks like the Phase did very well until F22 but the Hassy looks like issues at F16.

    http://www.captureintegration.com/tests/phase-one/
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  4. #54
    Senior Member etrump's Avatar
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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Thanks on the lenses Jack - I am inclined towards either a 75-150 because it would also be useful out of the studio.

    Tim
    I'm surprised you mention the 75-150mm for portraiture, I am demoing one right now and it is simply worthless wide open. f/6.3 and above it is comparable to the 150mm.

    Is yours clear and sharp wide open? My testing confirmed my dealers comments so I assumed they were all this way.

    100% P65+ crops at f/4.5-f/22. Standard C1 sharpening.

  5. #55
    Senior Member etrump's Avatar
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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Gotta be AF Carsten: you can't MF, even with studio lights to allow smaller apertures, reliably enough in my experience, unless you make your subject so static that they look static. I use 2 Bowens Gemini 500W lights and will probably add a third so I could get a 750 as the key light and use tighter apertures but in practice I'm aware of diffraction issues/

    Ideal lens would be an older lens that has AF, some character, is available second hand and is longer than 80mm and up to 150mm...
    You should check out the older 120mm AF macro. I love mine for portraits, it is very sharp but still pleasant looking when lit properly. Price is not bad either, especially if you luck out and get a good used one.

    Ed

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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Quote Originally Posted by etrump View Post
    I'm surprised you mention the 75-150mm for portraiture, I am demoing one right now and it is simply worthless wide open. f/6.3 and above it is comparable to the 150mm.

    Is yours clear and sharp wide open? My testing confirmed my dealers comments so I assumed they were all this way.

    100% P65+ crops at f/4.5-f/22. Standard C1 sharpening.
    Thanks for this post, Ed. Very informative. Looks like f/6.3 through f/11 are great, with f/16 acceptable in some cases. I was expecting a bit more from this lens. At least now when I get around to evaluating one I'll have this as a point of comparison.

    p.s. Can we assume MLU, solid support, etc. on all shots including f/16?

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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Based on those results Ed, it's not a lens I would buy.

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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Based on those results Ed, it's not a lens I would buy.
    My feelings as well. I'd like to see more samples from other copies. I've heard reports that led me to expect more from this lens.

  9. #59
    Senior Member etrump's Avatar
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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Allyn View Post

    p.s. Can we assume MLU, solid support, etc. on all shots including f/16?
    I wouldn't discount f/16 based on these tests. Even though I used MLU and rigid tripod the shutter speed at f/16 is 1/25. These are all at full zoom as well, the sign was probably 50-60 yards with the fence 75 yards.

    The real issue is how bad f/4.5 is which would be used a lot for fashion portraits especially considering how sharp the 150 D prime is at f/2.8.

  10. #60
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Quote Originally Posted by etrump View Post
    I'm surprised you mention the 75-150mm for portraiture, I am demoing one right now and it is simply worthless wide open. f/6.3 and above it is comparable to the 150mm.

    Is yours clear and sharp wide open? My testing confirmed my dealers comments so I assumed they were all this way.

    100% P65+ crops at f/4.5-f/22. Standard C1 sharpening.
    Thanks for posting that Ed.... I should clarify that I don't have the lens, am just thinking of getting one. And whilst the luxury of shooting wide open would be a bonus, by the time I have enough DOF over 100mm zoom to get a nose and eyes in focus, I'll have to be at at least F9-11!

  11. #61
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Quote Originally Posted by etrump View Post
    I wouldn't discount f/16 based on these tests. Even though I used MLU and rigid tripod the shutter speed at f/16 is 1/25. These are all at full zoom as well, the sign was probably 50-60 yards with the fence 75 yards.

    The real issue is how bad f/4.5 is which would be used a lot for fashion portraits especially considering how sharp the 150 D prime is at f/2.8.
    My feeling from recent experience testing tripods and heads is that the only way to test lenses accurately at less than 1/125th on a Phamiya, even with MUP, is with flash...

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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    I really can't speak too much about the 70-150 except Jack mentioning to me it was good about F8 on. I only played with it for a couple shots in Canyon De Chelley and this was at 9.5 which looks pretty good hand held but I can't speak for it more wide open and this was at the 125mm setting. I can speak about the 150mm D lens which is amazing even wide open. Here is a shot from the zoom at 125mm
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Now here is the 150 D 2.8 lens wide open hand held and as you can see it does not disappoint in the slightest. This maybe my favorite Mamiya lens followed by the 28mm and the 300mm. Frankly I think everyone shooting the Phase system should get a 300mm since they are relatively cheap and just flat out damn good even wide open.

    But here is the 150 wide open at 2.8
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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Just for completeness since i am on this wide open lens issue. the 300 F4.5 lens wide open is also very very good . These are ISO 800 shot off a monopod under stage lighting wide open and again another very good wide open lens to work with. But if I want that wide open look in my shots i will grab the 150 before anything else and even the Phase 80d is also very good wide open. Just a side note ISO 800 on the P30+ is just killer clean, so not sure where all those comments come from about MF can't do high ISO stuff. I even have 1600 at my disposal. These are straight out of C1 with no special noise reduction going on
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  15. #65
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    It's the reason I keep the 150/2.8 AND the 75-150

    I use the 75-150 primarily for convenience as a landscape lens. As such, I am shooting it mostly at f11 or 16, and occasionally at f8 or f22 depending on the situation. I have owned TWO copies of this lens and can confirm there is some sample variation. My first one performed very similarly to the example above so I returned it. On a whim, a year later I tried another copy after hearing from others how satisfied they were. To my delight, it was a good stop better than its predecessor and very usable at f8 through f22 at all focals. The other note on this lens is that the performance varies with focal -- mine is better at 75 than it is at 150 by one stop: at 75 my current copy is excellent wide open, but at 150 it is slightly soft wide open, better at f5.6, and shows loss of contrast until stopped down to f8. I would go so far as to say my current copy is essentially as good as the primes it replaces after f8.

    Ironically however, I find the lack of performance at the long end and more open apertures on my current one a benefit for portraits if/when I want to exploit the softer, lower contrast rendering -- it's a sort of variable effect from about 120mm wide open on, disappearing almost instantly as you stop down at 120, then gets stronger as you move up to 150 gradually disappearing as you stop down through to around 150 f8. If I need razor sharp, I have the 150/2.8 D, and as Guy said, that lens is a laser even wide open and basically you only gain DoF as you stop down...

    One other advantage to the zoom for landscape, is with the #1 and/or #2 extension tubes, it makes a very nice variable macro lens
    ~~~

    FWIW Sidebar: I also own both other AF zooms. I have tested 3 copies of the 55-110 and most are quite good if stopped down to f8 or more. On the 105-210 I've looked at 2. There is some variability, they seem to be weak at the short end, but very good at 210. Mine is best from 150 up (I don't use for anything under that) and excellent at 210 after f5.6. It is only slightly larger than the 210 ULD and nearly as good after f5.6 (the ULD prime is excellent wide open) and they're about the same price.
    Jack
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  16. #66
    Senior Member etrump's Avatar
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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Guy,

    What shutter speed are those 300mm images and were they shot handheld?

    Thanks,
    Ed

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    About 1/180 of a second at 4.5 on a monopod. BTW continuous focus which kept up with the models walking right me. I'm using a Mamiya AFDIII
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member etrump's Avatar
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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    About 1/180 of a second at 4.5 on a monopod. BTW continuous focus which kept up with the models walking right me. I'm using a Mamiya AFDIII
    The image on the left is incredible, she jumps right off the monitor! I can only imagine what this would look like in print.

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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Ed have to say I shot these shows for many years and with all kinds of camera's and even Jack will tell you the look I have been getting with MF from the 35mm days is just completely different looking doing this stuff. The MF stuff just jumps at you. So when you said that I completely agree. There is a look to MF that is undeniable and i don't care what anyone says about it ( the old raging debate 35 vs MF). I can see it and clients love it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Hi,
    For portrait work I love the 120mm macro and the 105-210 AF.
    Both for their own purposes.
    The 120mm is MF but that's not a real problem and the with the 105-210 you can get some amazing DOF play.

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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    ( the old raging debate 35 vs MF)
    Not really the place for this discussion, but yeah, size matters. Always has. However, I will never argue with anyone who thinks that pixels are all that matters, ignorance is bliss. If they think their new DSLR can match MF or 4x5 who am I to push them down the slippery slope? I don't care about 100%, I care about 20x30.

  22. #72
    Senior Member etrump's Avatar
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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Doorhof View Post
    Hi,
    For portrait work I love the 120mm macro and the 105-210 AF.
    Both for their own purposes.
    The 120mm is MF but that's not a real problem and the with the 105-210 you can get some amazing DOF play.
    This assumes a good copy of the 105-210mm. Some are not as good as most. Fortunately I have had great luck with Mamiya glass.

    I have yet to see a 120mm MF or AF that is anything but stellar, especially for macro. Do you find it so sharp that you have to smooth things out for tight head shots?

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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    I use the 120/4 A on a 1DS2 and it's not very forgiving to say the least. On a MFDB, it would be even less so. Love that lens - and the 80/1.9 (my 'normal' lens ;>)

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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    I recently shot our family holiday card portrait using the mammy 150/2.8D with my P45+ in our back yard, tripod and self-timer. We were all dressed up for a nice dinner out and the late afternoon natural light was perfect. Anyway, short version of the story is I need to reshoot it using either my Canon or the 145 SF or one of my zooms on the Mamiya -- the Mamiya 150D is too good and shows every flaw, pore and wrinkle.

    I could stop there, but the remaining fact is I used f3.4 - f4 to keep DoF shallow and then slightly front-focused (on purpose) to put our faces just at the edge of the rear oof area for a smoother look. It wasn't enough and I still look like a wrinkly old man...
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  25. #75
    Senior Member etrump's Avatar
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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    I recently shot our family holiday card portrait using the mammy 75-150 with my P45+ in our back yard. (We were all dressed up for a nice dinner out and the late afternoon light was perfect.) Anyway, short version of the story is I need to reshoot it using either my Canon or the 145 softar on the Mamiya -- the 75-150 Mamiya is too good and shows every flaw, pore and wrinkle...
    What aperture did you shoot at? (oops I see you edited and added f/??) The 150 is scary sharp at all apertures.

    So bad you can't use the phototools, inverted highpass or soft focus technique?

    How big is the holiday card 40x50?

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Quote Originally Posted by etrump View Post
    So bad you can't use the phototools, inverted highpass or soft focus technique?

    How big is the holiday card 40x50?
    Hi Ed:

    It's usually a whopping 5x7 on half-letter stock. I could probably shoot it with my iPhone and it would be good enough, but then again my standard shooting habits die hard

    And more unfortunately, even using C1 on those first takes with all sharpening off and downsizing the image straight to a 1200 pix jpeg, I still look ugly-wrinkled!

    Need to reshoot it with the 145 Soft Focus on the Mamiya or maybe use the 80/1.9 on the Canon...
    Jack
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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Hi Ed:

    It's usually a whopping 5x7 on half-letter stock. I could probably shoot it with my iPhone and it would be good enough, but then again my standard shooting habits die hard

    And more unfortunately, even using C1 on those first takes with all sharpening off and downsizing the image straight to a 1200 pix jpeg, I still look ugly-wrinkled!

    Need to reshoot it with the 145 Soft Focus on the Mamiya or maybe use the 80/1.9 on the Canon...


    If you were close I'd loan you the 75-150mm I'm demoing from Chris at CI, it is EXTREMELY soft at f/4.5.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Quote Originally Posted by etrump View Post


    If you were close I'd loan you the 75-150mm I'm demoing from Chris at CI, it is EXTREMELY soft at f/4.5.
    My 75-150 is awesome -- a little lower contrast wide open, but crisps right up at f5.6 - 6.3...
    Jack
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    Senior Member etrump's Avatar
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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    My 75-150 is awesome -- a little lower contrast wide open, but crisps right up at f5.6 - 6.3...
    I would mostly agree with this statement. You don't see any difference between f5.6 and f8?

    Mine sharpens up completely by f7.1, almost identical to the 150mm. Good for all but the most demanding work at f5.6.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Quote Originally Posted by etrump View Post
    I would mostly agree with this statement. You don't see any difference between f5.6 and f8?

    Mine sharpens up completely by f7.1, almost identical to the 150mm. Good for all but the most demanding work at f5.6.
    Yes, I would agree with that -- by f8 it is as good as any prime in that focal range. (FWIW I have my body set in half stop exposure increments, not thirds...)
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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Hi Ed:

    And more unfortunately, even using C1 on those first takes with all sharpening off and downsizing the image straight to a 1200 pix jpeg, I still look ugly-wrinkled!

    Need to reshoot it with the 145 Soft Focus on the Mamiya or maybe use the 80/1.9 on the Canon...
    For me I am looking for a lens with extreme pincushion distortion.
    -bob

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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    For me I am looking for a lens with extreme pincushion distortion.
    -bob
    Beats going to the gym, Bob.

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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    I would really like to have the 70-150 when doing the workshops. Seems that range is my most popular shooting range and having something in the middle of the 80 and 150 would be really handy. I would actually leave my 80 and 150 at home when doing landscape work. Be pretty handy doing portraits as well
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    @Ed,
    It greatly depends on the light used if you see problems in the skin.
    But retouching is a normal part of our workflow and I would rather start with as much detail as possible and smooth that as to start with a less sharp image

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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    If you like the 150/3.5, the MF 150/2.8 A (ULD glass) is very sharp with better CA control (used on FF DSLR in my case). Mint or NIB out of HK/PRC ebay dealer - $250 ish
    Rob, as you know I have 200/2.8 A. I also have 120/4 A (I believe N) on it's way.

    Would I be interested in 150/2.8?

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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Hey Zoran,

    I like it a lot. Very sharp, nice CA control with the ULD glass, good color. I'd recommend it. I use it with and w/o a 12mm tube to cut the 5' MFD down a bit for closer-in work.

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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Hey Zoran,

    I like it a lot. Very sharp, nice CA control with the ULD glass, good color. I'd recommend it. I use it with and w/o a 12mm tube to cut the 5' MFD down a bit for closer-in work.
    Thank you! I then have to give it a try.

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    Re: Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

    No worries. While the new D AF version is an apparent barn-burner, the M645 version is very, very good in it's own right.

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