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Thread: Hasselblad H3DII-60 coming in September

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    Senior Member ddanois's Avatar
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    Hasselblad H3DII-60 coming in September

    Hello,

    With the announcement that there will soon be a new flagship in the Hasselblad fleet, I am interested in anything known about the new H3DII-60 such as sensor type (i.e.. Is it the same kodak sensor or a Dalsa sensor like the one used in the Phase P65+?), new features, etc. In general, is this a new H3D with just 10mp more coverage or are there new features that we should expect? I have looked at the new product sheet and it looks to be a repeat of the H3DII-50 sheet with a "60" instead.

    Thanks,

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    Re: Hasselblad H3DII-60 coming in September

    Will it have live view? Some 50 owners are kinda miffed that the promised live view hasn't arrived yet, as far as I know.
    Carsten - Website

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    Senior Member ddanois's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad H3DII-60 coming in September

    I'm extremely upset by the lack of an advertised feature. Like other owners, I was told it had live view (and this was reinforced by the product sheet) and didn't learn of the issue until after i opened the box. At which point, I called Hasselblad and was told it was "coming soon". Still no live view after almost 6 months. At this point, I'm so much concerned about live view (as I've learned to live without it) but more about sensor differences and other feature differences such as lens compatibility.

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    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad H3DII-60 coming in September

    not like Phase is doing any better
    I understand it is a C1 issue (only tethered LV) and comes October?

    Victor

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    Re: Hasselblad H3DII-60 coming in September

    My understanding is it is a Dalsa sensor "remarkably similar" to the P65's.

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad H3DII-60 coming in September

    Sensor is the same as in the P65+ which is Dalsa, lens compatibility is guaranteed due to my Hasselblad rep, especially also for the 28 (which would be the biggest concern if there was campatibility).

    For me Life View is not an issue, as I normally do not use this feature, but for me the biggest issue is the SW, as I am so much used to C1Pro which I have also in work for processing all my other RAW files, but I am completely new to Phocus AND Phocus does only support Hasselblad

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    Re: Hasselblad H3DII-60 coming in September

    "ns compatibility is guaranteed due to my Hasselblad rep, especially also for the 28 (which would be the biggest concern if there was campatibility)."

    Yes, but the 28 and 35-90 are crop-lenses and therefore the H3DII-60 image is cropped to 50MP (that's what I was told).

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad H3DII-60 coming in September

    Quote Originally Posted by georgl View Post
    "ns compatibility is guaranteed due to my Hasselblad rep, especially also for the 28 (which would be the biggest concern if there was campatibility)."

    Yes, but the 28 and 35-90 are crop-lenses and therefore the H3DII-60 image is cropped to 50MP (that's what I was told).
    Then I got different information. My rep said that those lenses would also work on the 60MP full NEW frame size.

    Let's wait and see

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    Re: Hasselblad H3DII-60 coming in September

    Peter, be careful with that rep. It sounds like he is not telling the truth. Hasselblad employees (David Grover?) have stated on LL that there will be a crop factor. It wasn't as large as the 15% mentioned above, IIRC, but there is definitely something. I believe that the 28mm will be a 31mm on FF.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Hasselblad H3DII-60 coming in September

    Maybe David can comment on this and give the correct answers. I wish I knew more about the Hassy system myself. It get's very confusing with all there past bodies and such. Marc may have answers on this as well.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad H3DII-60 coming in September

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Peter, be careful with that rep. It sounds like he is not telling the truth. Hasselblad employees (David Grover?) have stated on LL that there will be a crop factor. It wasn't as large as the 15% mentioned above, IIRC, but there is definitely something. I believe that the 28mm will be a 31mm on FF.
    Carsten,

    if this is true, which of course could be, then this is another issue for me why not to go with Hasselblad.

    I am trying the H3D2 and 39MP back and 28, 35-90, 150 and HTS next week, just to see how it handles. And to see how I can come along with Phocus

    But if there are no options for "FF" on the 60MP back with current lenses, then this is clearly a show stopper for me.

    I will ask again!

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    Re: Hasselblad H3DII-60 coming in September

    David Grover:

    We have chosen a target sensor format of 36 * 49mm for the optimization of the lens performance for the HCD lens line in order to achieve a compact design with fast focusing as well as high performance. Top performance is reached even with sensors larger than 36 * 49mm. The only restriction is that a marginal crop is introduced with the HCD28 and the HCD35-90 in 35 mm setting. On a full frame 60 Mpix camera, the crop will result in an effective pixel count of 55 Mpix and a focal length factor of about 1.1. This means that the HCD28 will be equal to a 31 mm lens and the HCD35-90 will be equal to a 38-90 mm.
    source: http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/...dpost&p=229301

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    Re: Hasselblad H3DII-60 coming in September

    Deleted. Redundant information to thomas' post, above

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    Re: Hasselblad H3DII-60 coming in September

    Peter, try cornering the rep on this issue. Maybe he just doesn't know, but he really should. His ability should not reflect badly on Hasselblad though; it is a fine system, and the lenses have a high overall standard. The camera is possibly nicer and better integrated than the Mamiya, although the Phase back is possibly nicer. I have used Phocus, and it has a similar feel to Capture One, although I have done no direct comparison. You can download Phocus from the Hasselblad website and try it, if you like.

    Note that only the 28mm and 35-90mm zoom have this (slight) crop. The other lenses are all FF. The 100/2.2 is meant to be really good, possibly as good as, or better than, the famous Zeiss 110/2 F/FE (although it bugs me personally that they made it shorter and slower), and it is of course AF and auto-aperture, so depending on what you want to do with the system, that is something which cannot be matched on the Mamiya side. The HTS is also unique, in case you want to work with one system, rather than adding another camera and lenses for tech work.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Hasselblad H3DII-60 coming in September

    FYI: the "Data Sheet" for the H3D-II/60 is published on the Hasselblad USA web site.

    On the "model comparison" chart, the lens factor columns for the H3D-II/60 list the HC lens factor as 1.0X and the HCD lens factor also as 1.0X ... but adds: (Marginal Crop).

    None of the 60 meg sensors are really a true 645 size ... they're actually 94% of a 645.

    I personally never heard of "Live View" (like on 35mm DSLRs) on any MF digital camera ... They have "Live Video" when thethered to a computer for composition and focusing.

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    Re: Hasselblad H3DII-60 coming in September

    "I personally never heard of "Live View" (like on 35mm DSLRs) on any MF digital camera ... They have "Live Video" when thethered to a computer for composition and focusing."

    that is what we are talking about.

  17. #17
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    Re: Hasselblad H3DII-60 coming in September

    I personally never heard of "Live View" (like on 35mm DSLRs) on any MF digital camera ... They have "Live Video" when thethered to a computer for composition and focusing.
    ********
    Thanks for clearing that up...My entry level CFV does quite well with the latest Phocus release, it is now "fast" enough to be useful for critical focusing. (tethered)

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    Re: Hasselblad H3DII-60 coming in September

    Hasselblad itself claims a max. image size for the HCD-lenses with "37x49mm", the image MTFs are given up to 31mm image height - nothing more.

    The rest is simple math:

    The so-called full-frame sensor of the 60MP-backs has a crop of 1,03 in comparison to 645-film, the other "large" sensors are 36,8mm x 49,1mm and a crop of 1,13 (645-film) or 1,1 (60MP-backs).

    As long as they don't use a larger image circle with the HCD-lenses, the H3D-60 with HCD-lenses will produce 50MP-files, just like the H3D-50 - only with a Dalsa-sensor.

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    Re: Hasselblad H3DII-60 coming in September

    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......

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    Re: Hasselblad H3DII-60 coming in September

    FYI
    David is on Holiday at the moment so I wouldn't expect him to post. There is indeed no live view on the backs rather Live Video is what is being discussed. For various reasons the live video on the 50 is proving difficult to implement. The LCD on the 60 is as good as my Iphone IMO
    Nick-T

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    Senior Member ddanois's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad H3DII-60 coming in September

    I don't consider "live video" a small "hard to implement" issue. How does a company, with the global reputation of Hasselblad, allow product sheets to be distributed that discuss the live video feature if it has proven so difficult to implement? Like me, many Hasselblad H3D owners need to use the live video function to manage critical focusing us close. While I appreciate the overall quality of what the H3DII-50 delivers to me, I'm frustrated that Hasselblad has not acknowledged formally, that this valuable feature has not be delivered.

    Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the quality of what the H3DII-50 provides but don't appreciate the attitude from Hasselblad that I should not mind that a listed feature was not delivered. To be honest, I was considering the H3DII-39 but choose the 50mp version because it appeared to offer the same features but with the opportunity to print larger without "uprezing".

    This leads to my question regarding the new 60mp version. What are we going to miss? More importantly, what will we gain for an additional $8-10k?

    Is this to bold a question?

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    Re: Hasselblad H3DII-60 coming in September

    Certainly your dealer was remiss if he didn't tell you that the Live video was not yet implemented... And it is proving hard to implement from a technical perspective.
    Nick-T

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    Re: Hasselblad H3DII-60 coming in September

    If it is so hard don't talk about it and write in the specs. The same goes for Phase or every other company. If the specs say live video I can expect that from a product unless it is clearly marked that the specific feature is not yet implemented and none existing.

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    Senior Member ddanois's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad H3DII-60 coming in September

    Agreed Christopher! This is a "fairness in advertising" issue. If you promote a feature to gain sales but don't deliver, what's the remedy?

    This may seem silly but every manufacturer uses these tactics to gain sales and I'm tired of it for these prices. Just to be clear, I was told that each of these features exited until I opened the box and read the enclosed "release notes". Hasselblad responded that the feature was "imminent" and that was several months ago. A new sensor just opens up more questions.

    Once again, does anyone think there is an advantage to the H3DII-60 over the 50mp version?

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    Re: Hasselblad H3DII-60 coming in September

    Quote Originally Posted by ddanois View Post
    Agreed Christopher! This is a "fairness in advertising" issue. If you promote a feature to gain sales but don't deliver, what's the remedy?

    This may seem silly but every manufacturer uses these tactics to gain sales and I'm tired of it for these prices. Just to be clear, I was told that each of these features exited until I opened the box and read the enclosed "release notes". Hasselblad responded that the feature was "imminent" and that was several months ago. A new sensor just opens up more questions.

    Once again, does anyone think there is an advantage to the H3DII-60 over the 50mp version?
    Bigger sensor on the 60 meg?

    I agree that no one should sell with certain specs and not deliver those specs. In my experience, Hasselblad has always delivered ... eventually. But if you rely on a certain spec being there for your work, and it isn't delivered after you pay your money and take delivery, then that's bull. It would be better to tell the prospect that its a feature planned for, but not yet ready, and let the prospect decide.

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