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Thread: Resolution Games

  1. #1
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    Resolution Games

    I got my mini Alpa body today ( 12TC) and thought I would show a couple of ( to me anyway) interesting things. I put my Schneider 35 Apo digitar on it and walked around my garden to make a few shot in evening light. I was shooting at F11 ISO 100 hand held between 1/15th and 1/30th. The body lens back is extrmely hand holdable - the 12WS probably even more so...

    The first image is 100% crop from teh second image ( I show where in second image ) - no sharpening or mucking around for purposes of this quickie. File processed in Adobe Raw straight from Bridge..

    The first thing I like about MF digi and Alpa combination is resolution...

  2. #2
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: Resolution Games

    well. I suppose i better unpack my 12TC :-)
    It has been sitting in a box for two weeks as the P45+ was engaged on the Contax.
    Curiously (maybe not so) I started with the 35mm

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Resolution Games

    Wow. Impressive. Do I really need two kidneys?
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Resolution Games

    well gogo - good to see another person with an Alpa - what rarified company !! - I am sure soon to be joined by Marc and Jack and Guy..at least..LOL..

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    Re: Resolution Games

    Peter,

    Very nice image. I sure didn't need the encouragement ! Have you guys worked out a quantity discount yet?

    Jim

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Resolution Games

    Jim: You gonna have yours in time for Moab?

    ,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Resolution Games

    Jack,

    If I find enough "Guy bucks" I'll bring it along! Peter, are you using a Leaf back....sorry I forgot.

    Jim

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Resolution Games

    Why did i open this thread . I really hate this. Hell i am out of body parts to sell or at least any that are worth any money.

    Honestly when i first opened it I thought okay nice than i saw the crop and that just floored me.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Resolution Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Jim: You gonna have yours in time for Moab?

    ,
    Yea so i can try it. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  10. #10
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Resolution Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Stone View Post
    Jack,

    If I find enough "Guy bucks" I'll bring it along! Peter, are you using a Leaf back....sorry I forgot.

    Jim

    SWEEEEEEET! Can't wait to see it in person!
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Resolution Games

    Jack and Guy,

    And to think you tried to talk me out of this sexy gear.....shame on both of you! Having said that, can you float me a loan !! Honestly, I'm affectionately called Mr Equipment here at the homestead, so it's only a matter of time. Just waiting for an improvement in the exchange rate(from my wife's hands into mine....LOL!) Love the ability to hand hold the Alpa also, tho think I'd go for the 12SWA, just for the ability to shift 25mm....not much but the capability would be there. Wonder if Peter and Gogo would comment on their decisions to get the 12 TC.


    Jim

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    Re: Resolution Games

    Hi Jim,

    I have both the 12WA and the TC - why?
    I bought the 12WA first and love it so much I bought my every day version as well...these bodies will last more than a lifetime and are pretty much future proof because all you are getting is a perfect mounting system for a digiback. I think it is very funny that people will spend a lot of money on a digi back and not realise that most times they arent mounted square as film plane to lens tolerances in typical cameras are way too loose....

    I will get around to writing about the Alpa decision from an amateur's perspective maybe of interet to some..

    Guy and Jack - the Alpa is just a well made frame. teh Schneider/Rodenstock wide glass specifically made for high performance digi back capture mated to a decent back is what makes it work. keeping everything square relative to each other in very precise form is what it is all about.

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    Re: Resolution Games

    Sorry Jm i didnt notice yoru first question - yes I am using a Leaf Aptus 75 - but will probably switch to Sinar soon if my personal testing shows that that is teh right thing to do..

    I have no problem with Leaf at all - the ( possible ) switch is another story..I am testing a Rollei with top of the line Sinar over teh weekend...

  14. #14
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Resolution Games

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Hi Jim,

    I have both the 12WA and the TC - why?
    I bought the 12WA first and love it so much I bought my every day version as well...these bodies will last more than a lifetime and are pretty much future proof because all you are getting is a perfect mounting system for a digiback. I think it is very funny that people will spend a lot of money on a digi back and not realise that most times they arent mounted square as film plane to lens tolerances in typical cameras are way too loose....

    I will get around to writing about the Alpa decision from an amateur's perspective maybe of interet to some..

    Guy and Jack - the Alpa is just a well made frame. teh Schneider/Rodenstock wide glass specifically made for high performance digi back capture mated to a decent back is what makes it work. keeping everything square relative to each other in very precise form is what it is all about.
    I think getDPI workshops needs to have one of these. ROTFLMAO
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  15. #15
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: Resolution Games

    Dear Peter
    a question on grips; the people at Badger in the US sent me a left hand grip for the Pase back wake up. It seems reasonable; the picture on the Alpa site shows left had grip and cable. But there is also a right hand cable grip.

    Question is this; for a right handed person one usually ha right hand grip. But with Alpa Phase there are two releases; one for the wakeup (on the left hand grip) and the shutter release on the lens.

    It would seem awkward to have two rt hand releases, and grip may block the shutter however, SWA12 has TWO grips.

    I am wondering what is best with the 12tc. I suppose I could add the FINGER grip on the right side, or make like the WA with two, but then there goes the small aspect of the TC.

    Any ideas? What do you need for the Leaf? It doent need a wakeup but you do need long latency no?

    anything would help.
    Regards
    Victor

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    Re: Resolution Games

    G'day gogopix,

    if not on a tripod the best way to shoot a 12TC is with only one grip on the right hand side - your left hand should be free to cradle the camera whilst the right steadies and shoots.
    with a 12WA - I think you need the two grips - but teh Phase One back needs the cable running through the grip. If you want a WA then get teh right hand side cable run through version of the grip

    you will find with either that teh most difficut thing to get rihgt whilst hand holing is a flat plane shot - the wides exagerate any tilt via your holding technique.

    USe a tripod ( of course ) to get the most out of this setup..

    Pete

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    Re: Resolution Games

    Peter,

    I'm glad you mentioned the leveling issue. I've chatted with a landscape person and an architect who are shooting the SWA, but never remembered to ask about leveling. Can't you see the level bubbles? thru the viewfinder to help with this problem? Am sure shooting on a tripod would certainly be the way to go whenever possible. The both use Phase backs and suggest what you just posted to Victor. BTW, what are you both using for tripods and ballheads? Sorry for all of the questions, but still trying to convince myself to jump into this. As you know the camera and lenses are the "least" of the costs!!

    All input is greatly appreciated,

    Jim

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    Re: Resolution Games

    Jim, I allow myself a touch of eccentricity regarding photo gear.

    I had a MF digi back - and this represents the largest cost in the Alpa equation. I was not happy with Canon wides in 35mm land so I started investigating the whole issue of proper wide angle shooting, this led me through large format/panorama ( Linhof technorama ) etc etc - finally I somehow ended up in Alpa land. Fortunately my MF dealer also carried Alpa. So I borrowed an Alpa with 24mm and 35mm Schneiders a couple of times when on holiday and it pretty much made up my mind that for me the Alpa camera is a fantastic wide angle solution.

    this doesn't mean that it is an ideal solution for other people..

    Anyway regarding bubble level indicators - yes I can see them with TC or 12WA - but remember that you are looking through a viewfinder ( not a lens) which is perched on top of the camera - very easy to get some tilt as you have 4 directions ot play with -

    the tripod is ideal or some other fixed device for the very best captures...

    One can get away with shooting hand held - but with a 33 megapixel digi bak and teh Schneider sharp lenses - you will get caught out I guarantee you. Remember - wide open is 5.6 with center filter add 2 stops...you want to shoot F8-11 which is sharpest so you are generally shooting at ISO 100 between 1/15th - 1/60th - maybe a touch higher on very sunlit shots at midday...

    regarding tripods I have a lightweight Gitzo and a Silk ballhead - i am shopping for a better head which I can use on a large Manfrotto or the linhoff lightweight I have ordered. Heads are personal decisions ...much like a golf putter - thee days everything is made well.

    hope that helped.

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    Re: Resolution Games

    Peter,

    Thanks for the great info. I'll continue my studying while trying to sell some body part !! At least I have the Gitzo tripod and RRS BH 55 from my Canon DSLR to use eventually. Post some images when you can.

    Cheers,

    Jim

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    Re: Resolution Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Stone View Post
    Peter,

    Thanks for the great info. I'll continue my studying while trying to sell some body part !! At least I have the Gitzo tripod and RRS BH 55 from my Canon DSLR to use eventually. Post some images when you can.

    Cheers,

    Jim
    Jim,

    no need to rush anything anytime is there?
    Happy shooting .

  21. #21
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: Resolution Games

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    G'day gogopix,

    if not on a tripod the best way to shoot a 12TC is with only one grip on the right hand side - your left hand should be free to cradle the camera whilst the right steadies and shoots.
    with a 12WA - I think you need the two grips - but teh Phase One back needs the cable running through the grip.
    Pete
    yes, unfortunately the word is to use the left Phase cable grip since it needs to be close to the shutter synch
    oh well, so much for small
    I left off the viewfinder and was hoping for a more 'stealth' arrangement, but maybe I will get the Kapture cable too

    thx for the info. Good feedback amongst the best I have received. (actually, we may be getting a sizeable MF community here. Now we need ftot-z Craham to bring in the Estonia crowd.
    Victor

  22. #22
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Resolution Games

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    Now we need foto-z Craham to bring in the Estonia crowd.
    Victor
    Here I am. Thanks for the invitation.

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    Re: Resolution Games

    Hi foto-z and welcome --- glad to have you here!
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Resolution Games

    There we go welcome my friend . Glad to have you on board. Love all the Pro's on here , great stuff.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Resolution Games

    You are right Guy, this is a very dangerous place to visit : -)

    Now "Peter the Pusher" is off to Hy6 and Sinar land ... ahh, I didn't want to retire anyways.

    Let's see, ALPA and a couple of lenses, Sinar Hy6 and a 33 meg Sinar back plus at least three Schneider AF lenses ... or a new Bentley Brooklands. I could make money with the Hy6, but on the other hand, I could live in the Bentley ... LOL!

    You know what's nice about this forum? You can talk high end gear without the troll bashing, and "It's not the camera, but the person behind the camera that counts" chestnut. Duh!

  26. #26
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: Resolution Games

    had a chance to try the Alpa briefly with 35mm Digitar
    very sharp center but a little fuzzy at the edges. I wonder if f11 is starting to show diffraction

    Victor

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    Re: Resolution Games

    Victor is that result with shifting?

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    had a chance to try the Alpa briefly with 35mm Digitar
    very sharp center but a little fuzzy at the edges. I wonder if f11 is starting to show diffraction

    Victor

  28. #28
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    Re: Resolution Games

    no, the TC isnt great at shifting. I shoundnt say too much till I have a chance to do some real test shots. I think even though it was a high speed shot ther was wind and shake and who knows
    an interio shot (of my computer screen looked better.
    could be an infinity focus, diffraction or 'operator error' issue

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Resolution Games

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    You are right Guy, this is a very dangerous place to visit : -)

    Now "Peter the Pusher" is off to Hy6 and Sinar land ... ahh, I didn't want to retire anyways.

    Let's see, ALPA and a couple of lenses, Sinar Hy6 and a 33 meg Sinar back plus at least three Schneider AF lenses ... or a new Bentley Brooklands. I could make money with the Hy6, but on the other hand, I could live in the Bentley ... LOL!

    You know what's nice about this forum? You can talk high end gear without the troll bashing, and "It's not the camera, but the person behind the camera that counts" chestnut. Duh!
    ROTFLMAO!!!!

    Here's a thought with the Bently though. You could offer it as part of your "Ultra Premium" wedding package (and of course stepping the price up accordingly): let the Bride and Groom be chauferred to the reception in it. Course you'd need to keep your dirty underwear in the hamper if you were living in it too.

    ,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Resolution Games

    Don't laugh Jack, that thought has occurred to me. What the heck, I'm there anyway. Nice tax write off also.

    Me in a Chauffeur cap, ( LOL ), then change hats when we arrive. Gives Multi Tasking a new meaning.

    I think the Bentley folks will come in the night and confiscate the car if they hear about it being used like a Taxi to ferry around the proletariat ... but probably okay with them if I where just transporting an ALPA kit.

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    Re: Resolution Games

    Very funny you guys... This tractor ( below) is what I 'drive' on the weekends,
    (shot with Alpa/35mm Schneider..LeafAptus75)

    - too busy cutting hay to play with the Sinar and Hy6 this weekend..will see if I can borrow it during the week.

    as for you 2 - you need an Alpa I can tell..- Fair 'dinkum' the more I use the thing the less interest I have in using anything else...

    btw Jack how can I space the pics and center them?

  32. #32
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: Resolution Games

    Dear Peter

    Yes, Even thr first sloppy shots are adicting. It is just a differnt look from 135 or MF
    It is really back to view camera look, and the lenses I grew up with (well, sort of-it B&W, low speed BUT the depth was there.

    Amazing what you can do with small glass, even if it is only between 5.6 and 11!

    Regards
    Victor

    BTW I do the same thing on weekends, but in McLean Va we call is GRASS.

  33. #33
    Senior Member PSon's Avatar
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    Re: Resolution Games

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    Dear Peter

    Yes, Even thr first sloppy shots are adicting. It is just a differnt look from 135 or MF
    It is really back to view camera look, and the lenses I grew up with (well, sort of-it B&W, low speed BUT the depth was there.

    Amazing what you can do with small glass, even if it is only between 5.6 and 11!

    Regards
    Victor

    BTW I do the same thing on weekends, but in McLean Va we call is GRASS.
    Dear Victor,
    With all due respect, but I have a different view of the latest digital lens for supposedly large format systems. The image circle for these digital lens are much smaller than those that were designed for large format view camera. In fact, it is more on the same scale as the medium format. Therefore, the spatial compression is still less than the 135 mm system as you mentioned and I agree, However, the spatial compression is only equal to the medium format system. Nonetheless, it is welcoming as you said to see images from medium format system for sure. I look at the Alpa system and digital lens as a medium format view camera.
    Respectfully,
    -Son
    ALPA (MAX, STC, TC) | CAMBO (Actus DB2, WRS-AE) | CONTAX | HASSELBLAD | LEICA | DB (CFV-16, CFV-39, IQ180, IQ360, IQ3100, P45+) | Lens (Canon, Fujinon, Leica, Nikon, Pentax, Rodenstock, Schneider, Zeiss)

  34. #34
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    Re: Resolution Games

    oh, i certainly wasnt claiming to see any LF image circle -like activity. It is probably as simple as this; the view cameras use non retrofocus lenses; the optics and images are more straigtforward. It MAY lead to cleaner ray pats and thus clearer (possibly charper) images.
    Whatever it is, it suely LOOKS differet from the contax which looks diff from Leica which looks diffron CANIKON wich looks diffrom P&S which looks diffrom polaroid WHew, cant remember any other canonical 'types'

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    Re: Resolution Games

    you cant focus from 2 foot to infinity with a 21mm perspective with any lens made by any 'traditional' MF or 35mm lens manufacturer with the resolution that these Schneider/Rodenstock lenses deliver on a MF digi back.
    It is just a great P&S camera for out doors documentary style and a bit of landscape. Put the thing n a tripod ( which I am pathologically allergic to) and it will eat anything out there in any format and spit it out -

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    Re: Resolution Games

    Peter,

    Love your last post !! And really enjoyed your shots with the Alpa. Keep posting till I have one of my own. I NEED the encouragement !! LOL!

    Regards,

    Jim

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Resolution Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Stone View Post
    Peter,

    Love your last post !! And really enjoyed your shots with the Alpa. Keep posting till I have one of my own. I NEED the encouragement !! LOL!

    Regards,

    Jim
    No I need to get the hell out of this thread. I might be stripping my car down for parts at the swap meet to get enough money for this Alpa. Man love having you guys but your killing any hopes of retirement. Marc can i borrow the Bentley. LOL

    Excuse me fella's i need to let another member in the door. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Resolution Games

    Jim I am just a snapshot guy but thanks for you kind words..
    Guy - dont go doing anything drastic - like selling any of your secret stash of R lenses...to finance this...then again - do you a nice 35 lux or 19mm you want to ditch? LOL

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    Re: Resolution Games

    Peter,

    Guy would rather GIVE you a body part than part with either lens!! Guy, let's get Jack involved and buy three Alpa's(and backs of course).....they're sure to give us that quantity discount !! I'll even LET you be a beta tester for THEIR equipment!! Am sure Peter and Victor won't mind! Plus, you'll look very good getting out of your Bentley with the Alpa!

    Jim

  40. #40
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Resolution Games

    ROTFLMAO and still laughing
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Resolution Games

    Whew, dodged that bullet for now ... no Bentley or ALPA in my future, for awhile anyway : -)

    Just dropped a bundle in my studio ... Got a New USA Profoto D4 2400 and D4 head for $2,000.less than B&H list, added a Profoto Compact 600R kit @ discount ... and 2 large Plume soft-boxes, Kata rolling studio bags, Matthew's boom stand ... yada, yada, yada.

    You nature shooters are probably rolling your eyes up in your head ... LOL.

    If you do shoot inside, check out Gary Regester's Plume light modifiers ... ingenious.

    http://www.plumeltd.com/waferinfo.html

    But it ain't over ...if I can carve out the time, new member Irakly Shandize and I will have Bob Bresson, Leaf's regional rep in studio tomorrow for a demo of the Leaf Afi version of the Hy6.

    If we do, we'll report on it in the MF section here.

    NEWS: users of the Leaf Aptus 75s should know that the recently released upgrade of Lightroom directly supports Leaf's new loss-less compressed MOS RAW files. The previous Lightroom did not, and required the extra step of using the (slow) Leaf RAW Converter. WhaHooo !

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    Re: Resolution Games

    Marc - if you decide to double up on the Schneider glass on top of your H collection...- that will be enough to make up my mind for me..

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Resolution Games

    We'll see Peter. I'm pretty satisfied with the H system now, and it's only getting better.

    My interest in the Hy6 is to replace my aging Mamiya RZ studio system. The RZ Pro-IID has limitations when used with their interface plate and the Aptus. Limitations are hard to swallow at this price level.

    My Pal Irakly has a fairly complete Rollei system, and writes gear reviews, so he knows the Rollei way, and is very well versed in digital capture. I think the demo will only be with the standard 80mm Schneider AF lens ... but Irakly is suppose to bring some exotic Rollei glass to try out also.

  44. #44
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Resolution Games

    Lightroom has changed , my M8 files are looking better with the new upgrade. Marc keep us updated on that demo and I registered Irakly the other day , nice to have him onboard . Thanks for bringing him in.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Resolution Games

    I can see this is going to be an expensive place to hang out. Any of you guys remember the old saying "champagne taste on a beer budget"... how about "Alpa taste on an Alpo budget"

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