A
Alexander Bauer
Guest
Peter you need to join the Forbes list :salute:
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looks like the Hy6 is no more....
- Thread starter LJL
- Start date
D
ddk
Guest
Can I ask the resident slut what stuff bugs you about the S2? I'm really happy with my equipment too and my only temptation currently is the P40+ for its high iso performance, so we're kind of in the same boat. I'm also looking at the S2 but the lack of a 45mm or 55mm lens is potentially a deal breaker for me, I have no interest in a zoom lens.
ptomsu
Workshop Member
Would never ever buy a Sinar / Hy6 System today with the knowledge we all currently have about their future. Would be the same as quickly buying a DMR and R System from the scratch after they said it is discontinued.
I am in the waiting position for the S2 as well. Luckily enough I could wait and not spend any money in digital MF so far. Hasselblad is sorted out for me, the remaining 2 are Phase and Leica S. And I must admit that I have great hopes in the S System, as I would really prefer the Leica glass - as you can tell I am a Leica fan. And yes, I know all the weak parts of Leica and their support etc, but I hope it improves and we will see then .....
PeterA
Well-known member
I am a perfect testament to what a person shouldn't do regarding gear purchase. For a small fee ( free lens thrown in as well ) I will be happy to send you a 20 page essay on the lessons I have learned and the money I have burned on my way to enlightenment! :ROTFL::ROTFL:
For the type of work I do the CFV 39 will be just fine. Mounted on a 503 or 500 CM with a my CF 40, CF 80 and CF 150 plus the extension tube.
No I don't need auto focus lens or zoom lens. Since I shot Corporate, Industrial and Products in studio. Since most of my shots are stage with some set-up time.
If I would be shooting Models on a run-way maybe the Hasselblad H series might be a better choice, for the exposure control and the auto-focus.
The other matter is was to sell-off my current Hasselblad kit at a great lost to retool?
Michel
No I don't need auto focus lens or zoom lens. Since I shot Corporate, Industrial and Products in studio. Since most of my shots are stage with some set-up time.
If I would be shooting Models on a run-way maybe the Hasselblad H series might be a better choice, for the exposure control and the auto-focus.
The other matter is was to sell-off my current Hasselblad kit at a great lost to retool?
Michel
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Great question actually 3:2 framing is one of them .I really like 4:3
Not to get into the big debate but C1 is certainly my preferred processor
Pixel binning is not coming out on release
Lost control for corrections , Even though they say they don't need it . I want distortion control for barrel
Obviously lost tech camera's
Obviously lost able to switch backs for shooting , repair and such
There are more but still on first espresso. LOL
D
ddk
Guest
hmm, never thought about this one, that means I need yet another matte size, not good.
My experience with every digital device has proven that one gets best results from dedicated software rather than generic processors, even as good as they've become. I'm still on the fence regarding dng.
Does that mean compromised high iso?
You have that in PS
Nothing to worry about with a 2nd body
, You're right $hit happens, I had two backs and 2 bodies fail during my last shoot and needed a third system to finish up. Later it turned out that the backs were fine but the cards became corrupted, and I have strange noise patterns on a lot of the files. The cameras were a different story, they needed servicing, the shutter control had gone on both. Nobody really knows what happened but they think that it was either caused by a strong RF signal or electrical pulse/spike of some kind. What can go wrong WILL go wrong...
Of course you know that as a fellow slut I have very little control when it comes to these things and I'm trying to psyche myself out before reaching the point of no return. :ROTFL:
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Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
High ISO yes . It is rated at 1250 with full resolution . The P30+ right now is 1600 . Okay we all know the top one is not so great so figure 640 and 800. I know 800 is stellar on the P30 Plus but still don't know about the S2. The P40 from the tests pixel binning worked very nice and clean ISO 800 was very good and pretty darn good at 1600. I like to test this again and will in Oregon . Or maybe have Doug send it to me just before the workshop so I can run again some more tests on it.
The other thing here related to dedicated software is I know my Phase files and other files for that matter are better on noise than any other program I tried. I can count on this. The S2 we will have to see but again it would be Lightroom and from the past it did not do so well on noise but we have to wait to see how the S2 does . The issue is I know what the Phase does today and like many thing you count on what you know . But we will have to test the S2 on this arena for sure. This comes down to processing and no one can tell me anything until we try it.
I have a little Missouri in me. Show me. LOL
The other thing here related to dedicated software is I know my Phase files and other files for that matter are better on noise than any other program I tried. I can count on this. The S2 we will have to see but again it would be Lightroom and from the past it did not do so well on noise but we have to wait to see how the S2 does . The issue is I know what the Phase does today and like many thing you count on what you know . But we will have to test the S2 on this arena for sure. This comes down to processing and no one can tell me anything until we try it.
I have a little Missouri in me. Show me. LOL
D
ddk
Guest
Its the same with Leaf files, I use PS for conversion when I want to add noise to the files, I'm not kidding!
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Yes same processing engine
carstenw
Active member
Given that both P30+ and S2 are similarly sized Kodak sensors with microlenses, and that the S2's sensor is significantly newer, it is quite possible that it will outperform the P30+ ISO for ISO. This would mean that ISO 1250 might actually be very useable.
It occurs to me that under the above assumption, it might be that Leica deliberately don't offer an ISO 2500, knowing that LR is weak in this area...
It occurs to me that under the above assumption, it might be that Leica deliberately don't offer an ISO 2500, knowing that LR is weak in this area...
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
MIGHT and that is the big question but given the raw processing look at this crap from ACR. AND this is my WORRY
FF image ISO 800 from the P30+ the first one is processed in C1
Watch the crops for noise and that freaking pink I get every bloody time in ACR drives me NUTS. All processed at base defaults shot under tungsten and back set for tungsten
C1 FF
C1 crop
LR crop
Carsten I have to say assume nothing here because from experience it means nothing and given the converters out there I already know what they do with my files and did with my Nikons, Canons and Leica's as well. And this goes right back to that adage old argument on converters but I can only go by what I see from experience . Will the S2 be any different than the last 2 years of ACR output. MY BIG QUESTION MARK here
These examples are why LR has been tossed from my machine
FF image ISO 800 from the P30+ the first one is processed in C1
Watch the crops for noise and that freaking pink I get every bloody time in ACR drives me NUTS. All processed at base defaults shot under tungsten and back set for tungsten
C1 FF
C1 crop
LR crop
Carsten I have to say assume nothing here because from experience it means nothing and given the converters out there I already know what they do with my files and did with my Nikons, Canons and Leica's as well. And this goes right back to that adage old argument on converters but I can only go by what I see from experience . Will the S2 be any different than the last 2 years of ACR output. MY BIG QUESTION MARK here
These examples are why LR has been tossed from my machine
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
I would save them to your desktop but clearly the noise is worse in ACR
And clearly we went OT, sorry. I just don't have a lot of faith in the output coming from Adobe and have not been for quite some time, clearly my Phase stuff looks like crap from it and i don't want to use that as the gold standard either because C1 is dedicated to the Phase backs just like Phocus is to Hassy. The question is and something we have to think about is the dedicated software better than the generic . Now Raw developer is good and for the s2 that maybe the answer not sure or Aperture but in all honesty I would have preferred C1 and maybe because I am so tuned to it. I'm not saying LR or ACR are bad they are actually quite good but if I have to work harder at my Phase files than not worth it to me. Until we get some S2 files let's just say I am skeptical in this area. I have to be honest about this and it is a real concern on the S2
And clearly we went OT, sorry. I just don't have a lot of faith in the output coming from Adobe and have not been for quite some time, clearly my Phase stuff looks like crap from it and i don't want to use that as the gold standard either because C1 is dedicated to the Phase backs just like Phocus is to Hassy. The question is and something we have to think about is the dedicated software better than the generic . Now Raw developer is good and for the s2 that maybe the answer not sure or Aperture but in all honesty I would have preferred C1 and maybe because I am so tuned to it. I'm not saying LR or ACR are bad they are actually quite good but if I have to work harder at my Phase files than not worth it to me. Until we get some S2 files let's just say I am skeptical in this area. I have to be honest about this and it is a real concern on the S2
I have yet to see an image of any camera that is "very useable" at the highest ISO. Maybe the P21+... it's somehow "nice" at highest ISO... but far from "very usable" except if it's for a special grainy (indeed "filmlike") look (but you need to do carefull processing).
The new sensors are about one stop better in ISO. This is why the the P40+ and the P30+ are more or less the same regarding ISO.
So thinking about a P40+ with microlenses... this is probably what the S2 will do ISO wise. Now the software comes into mind. And the fact that Leica has effectively little experience with firmware.
If in V1.0 the S2 will be "very useable" at ISO800 that's fine (not more, not less).
... IMHO
carstenw
Active member
There won't be an ISO 800, Thomas. The range is 80-1250 with half-steps, so there will be 640 and 1250, and in between something around 960. One can hope that this will be good.
Guy, the noise is junk in LR in that image, but C1 really mangled the hair. Looks at the nice strands in LR and then in the C1 image they are totally smudged. Weird.
Guy, the noise is junk in LR in that image, but C1 really mangled the hair. Looks at the nice strands in LR and then in the C1 image they are totally smudged. Weird.
so ISO960 then
in the quoted link David states about moire:
well, the P40+/P65+ with the same pixelpitch (but without microlenses) produce moire. I can not imagine that the S2 will not produce moire... I wonder where and how they "really, really tried" it.
Stuart Richardson
Active member
Maybe the microlenses are acting like an AA filter. Wouldn't that be an irony? But who knows...the S2 will get its shot when it makes its way into a few people's hands.
As for the Hy6, I am disappointed. Selfishly, of course, since I am an owner, but also for the market in general. I agree that nothing has been announced formally, but I am also not deluding myself into thinking that it is going to be kept alive. At the best of times there was a very small market for this camera system, and now with the hurdles that would seem to be required to restart production, design the remaining components and so on -- all for what? A thousand more sales if they are lucky? Most people who were really clamoring for a Hy6 and were in the target market for it bought one already.
My own frustration is that while I really like the camera itself, I do not really like the Sinar back I have for it. It just does not inspire me in any way apart from resolution. I just don't really like the look of the files, and though I can usually work them into something I like, I really don't want to have to. So I would sell it and happily shoot film, but the thing has no 6x6 back, and it is not much fun shooting 645 in a 6x6 camera -- constantly popping the back in and out, having to mentally block out part of the frame and remember for every shot ("I am only using this part of the VF").
Anyway, I don't know what I will do now, as it is such an ordeal to sell it all. I live in Iceland, and there would be no domestic interest. All the boxes and the hard case for the back are in storage in the US. If they had just released that 6x6 back, I would be content. Now I am sitting on an incredible system that whenever I am about to use it, I say to myself, "Well, for this job, why don't you grab the 203FE...6x6 and you like the metering better...". So my options are, 1. sit and do nothing, shooting it occasionally (which I have been doing). 2. Just put everything on ebay as is, take a huge loss. 3. Sell it at a friendly price on GetDPI and take a huge loss. 4. Wait until I next go back to the US and grab all the boxes, packaging etc, and sell it there at a huge loss.
Sorry for the venting. I know I am extraordinarily lucky to own this system, but in the course of owning it I realized I like film better than Sinar's brand of MF digital, and that I like shooting film better on other cameras than the Hy6 (the 203FE, Mamiya 7II etc).
As for the Hy6, I am disappointed. Selfishly, of course, since I am an owner, but also for the market in general. I agree that nothing has been announced formally, but I am also not deluding myself into thinking that it is going to be kept alive. At the best of times there was a very small market for this camera system, and now with the hurdles that would seem to be required to restart production, design the remaining components and so on -- all for what? A thousand more sales if they are lucky? Most people who were really clamoring for a Hy6 and were in the target market for it bought one already.
My own frustration is that while I really like the camera itself, I do not really like the Sinar back I have for it. It just does not inspire me in any way apart from resolution. I just don't really like the look of the files, and though I can usually work them into something I like, I really don't want to have to. So I would sell it and happily shoot film, but the thing has no 6x6 back, and it is not much fun shooting 645 in a 6x6 camera -- constantly popping the back in and out, having to mentally block out part of the frame and remember for every shot ("I am only using this part of the VF").
Anyway, I don't know what I will do now, as it is such an ordeal to sell it all. I live in Iceland, and there would be no domestic interest. All the boxes and the hard case for the back are in storage in the US. If they had just released that 6x6 back, I would be content. Now I am sitting on an incredible system that whenever I am about to use it, I say to myself, "Well, for this job, why don't you grab the 203FE...6x6 and you like the metering better...". So my options are, 1. sit and do nothing, shooting it occasionally (which I have been doing). 2. Just put everything on ebay as is, take a huge loss. 3. Sell it at a friendly price on GetDPI and take a huge loss. 4. Wait until I next go back to the US and grab all the boxes, packaging etc, and sell it there at a huge loss.
Sorry for the venting. I know I am extraordinarily lucky to own this system, but in the course of owning it I realized I like film better than Sinar's brand of MF digital, and that I like shooting film better on other cameras than the Hy6 (the 203FE, Mamiya 7II etc).