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Thread: New Rig

  1. #1
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    New Rig

    I just got a P20+ (my entry to medium format) and here are a few first shots. I have a lot to learn both shooting and processing but I will enjoy that part - very exciting. Alpa camera with Schneider 47mm.











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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: New Rig

    Wow --- great color and detail Charlie! And dontcha just love that your digital clouds now look like real clouds? () I assume you'll be bringing that new toy to Oregon?


    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: New Rig

    Yes Jack, it's coming to Oregon and you and Guy are going to show me how to use it!!!

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    Re: New Rig

    Congrats! Charlie. Great kit. I look forward to seeing the results from Oregon.

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    Senior Member helenhill's Avatar
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    Re: New Rig

    Lush.....
    COOOOOL & CONGRATS !!

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    Re: New Rig

    Congratulations! You'll make it sing I'm sure.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: New Rig

    Quote Originally Posted by cmb_ View Post
    Yes Jack, it's coming to Oregon and you and Guy are going to show me how to use it!!!
    You bet looking forward to it too. Looking good so far
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Super Moderator Cindy Flood's Avatar
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    Re: New Rig

    The detail in the clouds and the trees in the second one is amazing. Congratulations!

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: New Rig

    Have to remember this is a 18mpx square sensor with a 9 micron sensor , the same sensor I had in my P25+ files and you can get these backs at a very low cost and use them on a Hassy V camera or almost any 645 or Tech camera. This is a very low cost entry into MF and still be able to use C1 as your raw processing engine which this back is fully supported. Honestly this will smoke any 35mm out there with these big fat pixels. I wish people would look at these more and the P21+ which is the 4:3 format with same sensor and micro lenses which a lot of fashion shooters use since these are very fast to shoot as well.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: New Rig

    Thanks to all for the congrats.
    Cindy - yes, detail is amazing but I am sure I could improve my shooting technique and processing and perhaps get even more from this system.

    Guy - you are correct, if you shop around and be patient there are some good prices on backs if you do not need to have the latest and greatest. Same for the cameras. Of course you can spend a fortune as well but you don't have to. Most important - get what you want (or need if you have specific job requirements).

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    Re: New Rig

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso
    Have to remember this is a 18mpx square sensor with a 9 micron sensor , the same sensor I had in my P25+ files and you can get these backs at a very low cost...
    Quote Originally Posted by cmb_ View Post
    Guy - you are correct, if you shop around and be patient there are some good prices on backs if you do not need to have the latest and greatest. Same for the cameras. Of course you can spend a fortune as well but you don't have to. Most important - get what you want (or need if you have specific job requirements).
    Hey, go easy, guys! Charlie may have found a great deal, but P25+ backs are rare, and those 9 micron pixels are special! The value of (my) P25+ is going up every day!!

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: New Rig

    LOL. They are nice backs for sure.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: New Rig

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Flood View Post
    The detail in the clouds and the trees in the second one is amazing. Congratulations!
    Hi Cindy:

    FWIW, that is one of the huge advantages to shooting with MF backs -- far broader DR that allows you capture tonal transitions in bright clouds while still maintaining shadow detail. It's amazing what you pull out of a single file in a good raw processor. This is something that the DSLR's -- even the best ones -- cannot do very well, at least yet.

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  14. #14
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: New Rig

    BTW those coming to the workshop I can ask Dave to bring these two backs along if folks wanted to look at them and try them out. I think a lot of 35mm landscape type shooters should really think about these.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: New Rig

    Charlie,

    I'm so happy for you. After speaking with you so much about different options I'm glad we could provide you an option that fits you so well.

    Oregon is going to be a great experience for you. Guy and Jack can help you with techniques in the field to work creatively with your tech camera platform and I can help you with Capture One to make sure you squeeze all the awesomeness out of your files as possible. You'll come out of it really well prepared for any shooting situation.

    We can also cover stitching technique so you can turn that "only" 16 megapixel system into a 40 megapixel monster. 60" prints await you!

    That large format glass REALLY sings doesn't it?

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: New Rig

    BTW i made a small mistake on the specs. Here you go
    the P20 is 16 megapixel square. The P21 is 18 megapixel 4:3
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: New Rig

    . . . and the P25 is 22 megapixel also 9 micron - 3 nice options

  18. #18
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    Re: New Rig

    Hi CMB,

    This is really great to see! In my view the current megapixel race is beyond the point of reasonable return for many. We have been encouraging our clients to think about the Alpa system as an upgrade path to their existing "old" backs rather than necessarily getting a new higher resolution back. For many this a perfect option as it seems to be for you.

    recently a client told me after shooting his P20 (non plus back) on an Alpa Max that he had never seen his back perform so well. This is true for the older P25 backs and Aptus 22 backs as well.

    Congratulations on your new system, it looks like you already have it dialed in and have fun in Oregon.

    Best Regards,
    Paul

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    Re: New Rig

    Doug - thanks. I am looking forward to Oregon and hopefully by October I will have a good start with the system then you guys can give me the extra push I (my work) will need. And yes, the large format glass really sings and with the P20+ I have lots of image circle to spare!

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    Re: New Rig

    charles, congratulations.

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    Re: New Rig

    Paul - your video demonstrations were a huge help - I watched all of them several times - they really helped to confirm to me that I wanted the Alpa.

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    Re: New Rig

    Two more images.







  23. #23
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: New Rig

    Man look at that DR in the first image. Nothing better than MF for that. Charlie these bad boys are crystal sharp. You are doing a great job on focusing and I know you are guessing right now.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Workshop Member MikeScecina's Avatar
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    Re: New Rig

    Way to go, Charlie. Beautiful series. The quality of light captured in the early evening street scape is remarkable. And congrats on that rig.

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    Re: New Rig

    Congratulations and use it ingood health! Just to 'round out' my collection - I am looking for an old P25+ in Mamiya mount.

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    Re: New Rig

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Congratulations and use it ingood health! Just to 'round out' my collection - I am looking for an old P25+ in Mamiya mount.
    I like the way you say old....Has the oldest one even hit it's first birthday yet?

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: New Rig

    Well I had one for sale a little while ago. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: New Rig

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    I like the way you say old....Has the oldest one even hit it's first birthday yet?
    Hmm good question Terry I do believe my H3D11-39 back is over a year old. My CFV11 is about 6 months as is 75LVr from Sinar ( swapped with a forum member out of P45+ back for the Sinar /Hy6)

    here is the scorecard since buying into MFD

    1. Hasselblad reduced prices on me 3 months after I paid full rack rates
    2. CFV11- now replaced by CFV-39 at similar prices for doubel pixel count - but not a square sensor - but who cares?
    3. Sinar have no new back but a dead Hy6 system ( as in dead dead- shame the lenses are the BEST IMHO)

    I think total write down sicne acquisiiton is ummm...lets say 10K for Hasselblad H3d11-39. 5K for CFV11, 10K for Hy6 and lenses ( back is fine) - so rolling 12 months has 'cost' about 25K in manufacturer inspired price changes or failures.

    I'd sack myself as a trader based on this track record.

    Kinda puts the so called 'expensive S2 into perspective though...doesnt it? and also has me ready to write off M8's I own as soon as M9 appears - yes i want one - the M's in digi and film format are my most used system.

    I buy on the belief that anything in digi land is worth 30 cents in the dollar over 2 years and maybe 20% flat thereafter. it is pure discretionary expenditure. But I like cameras as industrial design as well as utility objects I haev a fascination for optics and digi backs and I like something about each system I own. this stuff mostly sits on glass shelves with underlighting so it looks prety at night when I am stuck in Bloomberg land.


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    Re: New Rig

    Peter - Yikes that does sort of suck.... although I was just talking about "old" in terms of a 25+ plus which I thought was still a pretty new back.

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    Re: New Rig

    No worries Terry - I have an amazing ability to laugh at myself and teh good fortune to be able to afford it

    Yes Guy I knwo you had a lovely P25+ back - it is just that after my unexpected depreciations - I decided the next Phase One would be bought at prices similar to my existing 'infrastructure' would fetch -

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    Re: New Rig

    Peter - but your Alpa is holding value, at least for now, and it is just a piece of metal with a hole in it!!!

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    Re: New Rig

    the Alpa - is of course now a family heirloom!

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    Re: New Rig

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    the Alpa - is of course now a family heirloom!
    May the future generations use it in good health!

  34. #34
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    Re: New Rig

    [QUOTE=cmb_;131075]Two more images.






    CMB, that first image is breathtaking. Absolutely first-class!
    Bill

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    Re: New Rig

    Thanks Bill, much appreciated.

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    Re: New Rig

    Another.



  37. #37
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: New Rig

    Assuming you're not doing any post processing on the images I'm VERY impressed with the performance of the Schnieder 47mm lens as well. The lack of distortion seems very noticeable with the types of shots you've included here.

    What setup are you using with the Alpa? Basic body off the tripod or are you using one of the grips?

  38. #38
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    Re: New Rig

    I really like the square format and what you are getting.

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    Re: New Rig

    Graham - just a little post but no corrections for distortion. There is very little distortion from the 47mm as far as I can see. But remember, the P20+ is a square sensor - 36.9 x 36.9 mm - so we are not seeing what the performance might be like on one of the larger sensors like the P45+ where you have 49.1 mm in the horizontal direction in landscape orientation and are then using more of the image circle of the lens, but I suspect the distortion will be very well controlled. I should have the opportunity to try some different backs because I will attend the Oregon workshop so I will see how it does with a larger image area and many more megapixels. With the P20+ the "corners" are probably still in the sweet spot of the lens!

    I have the Alpa 12 SWA. All of the shots I posted were tripod mounted but I have also shot with it handheld. It comes with grips and it actually feels very balanced handheld but I am still learning and trying to get comfortable with it guessing distance, exposure, etc. For now it is easier for me to mount it on the tripod then I have at least one hand free to be scratching my head wondering what I am doing! LOL

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    Re: New Rig

    Gero - thanks, yes I am really liking the square format too and hope it endures for a long time.

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    Re: New Rig

    Are you using the shifts with the SWA & P20+?

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    Re: New Rig

    Great stuff... I think I know those streets in NYC

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    Re: New Rig

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Are you using the shifts with the SWA & P20+?
    Yes.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: New Rig

    NICE
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: New Rig

    In the veryfirst pic, it looks like a heli in the upper right hand corner. At first i thought it was a bug on my screen, but a closer look, and wow, what detail at that distance.
    Joe

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    Re: New Rig

    Yes nice combo between lens and back. As you noted and can see this is a 16 mpx back which in reality does not mean much but those big fat 9 microns and large sensor can really shine not to mention a very good lens to boot.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: New Rig

    Hi Charlie, The pics you've posted have really caught my eye. Really nice job. It sounds like you worked with Doug to put the system together. Any chance you could identify each of the pieces that you put together in this system? For example, which Alpa, which adapters, focusing system, etc.

    I've got my P30+ on my Contax. I've got a little over a half year left on the warranty, etc., and I'm startring to look at my options of whether to keep it as is, or to think about doing something else with it. Thanks, Ray

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    Re: New Rig

    Ray, if you want to sell, it might make sense to leave enough of the warranty in to allow the buyer to get a sense of security with the purchase, i.e. perhaps 2 months or so... You might net much more that way.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: New Rig

    Hi Carsten, you're absolutely right. I'm not at all sure if I'll sell any of the Contax/P30+ system I've put together. It's all worked very well, but being a guy who has a nasty case of gear lust every now and then, I'm just starting to think about whether or not to stay with this entire system. The Contax system is my first MF system, and while it's been just great in so many ways, there area few things that I wish were better. My eyes stray to the Mamiya AFD III that many of the guys on this site have, all for very good reasons. Just not sure. Thanks, Ray

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    Re: New Rig

    Quote Originally Posted by RayM View Post
    Hi Charlie, The pics you've posted have really caught my eye. Really nice job. It sounds like you worked with Doug to put the system together. Any chance you could identify each of the pieces that you put together in this system? For example, which Alpa, which adapters, focusing system, etc.
    Ray - First let me preface this by saying I do not work as a pro photographer so my needs and wants may be very different than others.

    My system:
    refurbished Phase P20+ with Mamiya interface purchased from Capture Integration
    I spoke and corresponded with both Doug and Dave at CI and both were very helpful and extremely knowledgeable.
    Alpa 12 SWA with wake-up handgrip for Phase back
    Alpa backadapter MA645A for Phase backs with Mamiya interface
    Alpa viewfinder
    Lens: Schneider Apo-Digitar 5.6/47mm XL
    viewfinder mask
    I purchased all the Alpa gear from Fotocare in New York (I am in NY)

    No focussing aids, just guesstimating. But many of the shots are f/11 and set to infinity. I need to experiment with this more but that will come in time.
    No meter, again just guessing but it is very fast to tune in the exposure with reviewing the shots on the LCD. I was worried about this before I got it but it is not really a problem.
    Also, the first day I went out with it I brought along the M8 and tried transferring info from the lens distance scale on the M8 for closer objects and that worked very well. I could use the M8 as a meter as well but it is just as quick to guess the exposure, review on the LCD, and make adjustments.

    One caveat, the Alpa is very expensive. The Cambos are much less expensive, have more movements than the SWA, and use the same lenses from Schneider so for a technical camera they may well be a better option. For me, I liked how the Alpa felt in my hands better than the Cambo and I will shoot handheld with it as well as on a tripod. For what I paid for this system I probably could have gotten a refurbished P45+ with Phase camera and 80mm lens (and maybe picked up another cheap used Mamiya lens!), but again, I have no professional pressure to bring home the shot - except from my own drives and desires as an artist so I have some latitude and freedom in selecting equipment.

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