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Nikon D3s - now out

F

fultonpics

New member
good overview here:

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10044-10302

things i like:

12800 somewhat usable ISO and most likely much better performance down around 3200-5000 which is an area i need for night game work

bigger buffer than non-upgraded D3

video? nice to have but not sure would use much. video camera's kick butt here.

300,000 shutter life? would burn through that but nice to know.

self cleaning--nice.

rob likes the 1.2 crop, but not sure i really get that.

but unless the low light is SO much better than D3 (@ 3200), I probably won't get one right away and wait for others to sort out the flaws if any. just not much of a jump over my D3's to justify the bucks. when a D4 comes out, i may jump then. I sort like the ideal of running the D3's until they totally fall apart.

yeah, i want some new primes too--there are days when a zoom is just too much to carry around.
 
T

tjv

Active member
Yes, a 35mm f1.4 AFS would be amazing.

Anyone know if the dynamic range is also improved with the new camera?
 
Jorgen Udvang

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Nice camera, and a development in good, old Nikon tradition; no surprises.

But the lens.... the lens :confused: Do I see a pattern here? First there were a zillion new consumer zooms, then there were new super telephoto lenses and tilt/shift lenses. In between all this, we now have three new macro lenses as well, but no, I repeat no new portrait lenses or other fast primes below 200mm.

This new 85mm is probably excellent for macro, but that's about it. 2 stops slower than the 85mm f/1.8 more or less eats up the advantage of VR, and moving subjects will obviously suffer from the longer shutter speeds. Not much of a night time walk-around lens in other words.

The primes that exist are of course rather nice, but Sony and Pentax have nice primes as well, and they offer IS (in-body) and fast aperture in the same package. With the new 12mp sensor in the A500 and the K-x, I wouldn't be surprised if they even have superior high ISO compared to the D300s and D90.

One can always say that Nikon will catch up eventually, and next year they will be on top... and so on. But the lack of image stabilised fast primes, and fast wide-angle primes have been on the wish list now for many years, and so far, absolutely nothing has happened.

I think I'll have a long look at that pink K-x again. Body with kit zoom plus 77mm f/1.8 plus 15mm f/4.0 will cost around the same as a D300s, body only. I know, I know, the D300s is a lot more camera for a lot of things... but not for street photography.

Oh well... rant over :)
 
Lars

Lars

Active member
Jorgen, the 85 micro is a DX lens not sure if you got that. Anyway that underlines even more that Nikon's priorities WRT lenses are all about volume sales - be it DX comsumer cameras or PJ/sports. Stark contrast to what for example Pentax is rolling out.

I'm doing fine with my collection of Nikon lenses, but there's nothing in the Nikon lens catalog tempting my wallet at this time.

D3S is an interesting development though - video at ISO 102,400 certainly opens up possibilities (though perhaps not so interesting for folks here).
 
Jorgen Udvang

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I know it's for DX, and since I only use F-mount DX format cameras, I would be an obvious customer, but I'm not. I would rather throw in a few hundred dollars extra and get the 105mm (I have the AF D version), which in my view is a much more versatile lens, simply due to the faster aperture in combination with the longer focal length, which gives more creative possibilities.

Or maybe I'm not. I have four lenses that cover 85mm already and five lenses that cover 105, so I'm probably just a spoiled as well as grumpy old man who is disappointed that Nikon didn't make a lens after my particular specifications :mad:
 
L

LJL

New member
Still surprising that Nikon has NOT dropped something like the Canon 85mm f1.2L II into their lens line-up yet. It would probably be just as expensive or more so, but if it could deliver, it might make a lot of wedding and portrait shooters very happy.

Also interesting to see the 1.2x crop on this new D3S. Having shot the Canon 1D series for years, I have really grown to like that 8.2MP image size at the slight crop for lots of shooting besides just action/PJ stuff. For some time, folks had said the 1.3x crop was dead, then Leica delivered it on the M8 and Canon continued it on the 1DMkIII. It really is a sweetspot size that can exploit the best FF glass sometimes even more than on the FF sensor, since it does clip the corners for you ;-)

It is good to see some development effort on things other than just MPs at this point. Not sure how smeary the really high ISO stuff will be. The few posted shots at ISO 12,800 were not stellar, and I can imagine that 102,400 ISO is mainly for shooting the paranormal stuff, where smearing helps keep the imagination alive ;-)

LJ
 
F

fultonpics

New member
how many high-priced 35 1.4 nano coated they would really sell? this is an 'old guys' lens (which btw, i'm in that club). most consumers and working guys (wedding, pj, etc) love their zoom in this range (24-70) and with the wonderful ISO performance, 2.8 is fine. but maybe i'm wrong and it would be a big seller, sort of doubt it. as the bodies morph to video/still cameras from still/video cameras, zooms are even more important.

nikon did an excellent job with their long glass and have a stellar line-up, which allowed them to capture the sports world back (high visibility to advertise their brand to consumers--i have so many people ask me questions about my gear at venues) . at the recent President's Cup, where there was lots press (both intl and domestic) and it was great too see SO many black lenses. SI guys all had Nikon (not so 2 years ago), the PGA photographers mostly had Nikon (200-400 !) and many independents had Nikon. The Canon gear was well used--guys who can't afford to upgrade over to Nikon. So Nikon is on a roll. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for more primes--a few will come but, not required for the product line at this point.
 
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V

Vivek

Guest
L

LJL

New member
Vivek said:
This one: http://chsvimg.nikon.com/products/imaging/lineup/digitalcamera/slr/d3s/img/pic_006b.jpg

Looks pretty good to me. The couple of wild life samples at that ISO are also looking very nice.

If only Nikon would make a mirrorless cam with this kind of performance...
Click to expand...
This does not look bad. The noise is held in check pretty nicely. However, things are starting to look pretty smoothed out and a bit less featured. Not unlike using Dfine or Noise Ninja or something else fairly aggressively. Holding good colors is critical, and I was not convinced by that in some of the other posted shots. In this one, the stage lighting swamps that completely, so it does not matter as much about things like skin tones. The shadows are not a speckled mess, and that is good.

LJ
 
F

fotografz

Well-known member
fultonpics said:
how many high-priced 35 1.4 nano coated they would really sell? this is an 'old guys' lens (which btw, i'm in that club). most consumers and working guys (wedding, pj, etc) love their zoom in this range (24-70) and with the wonderful ISO performance, 2.8 is fine. but maybe i'm wrong and it would be a big seller, sort of doubt it. as the bodies morph to video/still cameras from still/video cameras, zooms are even more important ...
Click to expand...
Put that question to Canon who does have a 35/1.4L and seems to sell the crap out of them ... even to younger bucks. Or Leica who has had both the coveted R35/1.4 and industry standard M 35/1.4 ASPH most every M user craves, or Zeiss that made one for the Contax line, or to ... come on Nikon get it together already.
 
Lars

Lars

Active member
fotografz said:
Put that question to Canon who does have a 35/1.4L and seems to sell the crap out of them ... even to younger bucks. Or Leica who has had both the coveted R35/1.4 and industry standard M 35/1.4 ASPH most every M user craves, or Zeiss that made one for the Contax line, or to ... come on Nikon get it together already.
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What's the actual numbers? A few hundred lenses/year for Zeiss and Leica? Maybe a little more for Canon?

Edit: Of course I agree, I'd like to see a modern 35/1.4 and 85/1.4 in the lineup. But I can understand why short-sighted bean-counters don't bother.
 
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F

fultonpics

New member
Put that question to Canon who does have a 35/1.4L and seems to sell the crap out of them

sort of doubt it even comes close to the number of zooms they sell in the same range. other than folks who hang out on photo forums, how many are going to jump on a larger, expensive lens with 1 or 2 f stops they will rarely use? i do wonder what the real number is that canon sells--my local dealers rarely stocks more than 1 and often zero. however, of course it would be nice to have the ability to buy one, so hope they get around to it. the 50 1.4G was sort of a yawn (i own one), so hopefully they can hit a home run with it. also a fast 85 would be nice too. for now, i can get what i need with the zooms--but i'm happy being a hack.
 
F

fotografz

Well-known member
fultonpics said:
Put that question to Canon who does have a 35/1.4L and seems to sell the crap out of them

sort of doubt it even comes close to the number of zooms they sell in the same range. other than folks who hang out on photo forums, how many are going to jump on a larger, expensive lens with 1 or 2 f stops they will rarely use? i do wonder what the real number is that canon sells--my local dealers rarely stocks more than 1 and often zero. however, of course it would be nice to have the ability to buy one, so hope they get around to it. the 50 1.4G was sort of a yawn (i own one), so hopefully they can hit a home run with it. also a fast 85 would be nice too. for now, i can get what i need with the zooms--but i'm happy being a hack.
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Well, with that reasoning, Nikon should just make kit lenses because they sell way more of those than $1,900. Zooms.

The Canon 35/1.4L and 85/1.2L primes are pretty popular with many wedding photographers ... although it most certainly is no where near the number of 24-70/2.8Ls that are sold.

Using a 35/1.4 in low light is a revelation .... the viewfinder is way brighter than with a 2.8 optic.

-Marc
 
Jonathon Delacour

Jonathon Delacour

Subscriber Member
fotografz said:
AFS, Nano coated 35/1.4, 85/1.4VR and 180/2.8VR please!
Click to expand...
LJL said:
Still surprising that Nikon has NOT dropped something like the Canon 85mm f1.2L II into their lens line-up yet. It would probably be just as expensive or more so, but if it could deliver, it might make a lot of wedding and portrait shooters very happy.
Click to expand...
Lars Vinberg said:
Of course I agree, I'd like to see a modern 35/1.4 and 85/1.4 in the lineup. But I can understand why short-sighted bean-counters don't bother.
Click to expand...
fultonpics said:
also a fast 85 would be nice too.
Click to expand...
According to this Nikon Rumors post, patent 20090244724 (which Nikon filed on Oct 1) cites an 85mm f/1.4 lens with VR as an example of the technology covered by the patent.
 
F

fultonpics

New member
Well, with that reasoning, Nikon should just make kit lenses because they sell way more of those than $1,900. Zooms.
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well sorry if i offended....i'll stay off this forum. all the best Marc and hope Nikon comes through for you
 
F

fotografz

Well-known member
fultonpics said:
well sorry if i offended....i'll stay off this forum. all the best Marc and hope Nikon comes through for you
Click to expand...
No offense taken. Didn't mean to put you off :eek:

You have your opinion and I mine ... in fact you are probably correct since Nikon seems to ignore all pleas to make a few fast primes (or to update the few they do have like the 85/1.4, 105/2, 135/2) compared to their main competition Canon who makes a full range of top primes: 24/1.4L, 35/1.4L, 50/1.2L, 85/1.2L, 135/2 ... and keeps improving them.

Please stick around and offer your counter-point opinion since it seems to be the voice of reality compared to wishful thinking. :)

Sincerely,

Marc
 
Steen

Steen

Senior Subscriber Member
And then it's even worse, you forgot to mention there's also a EF 2.8/14 L USM II ...
I'd love that ultra wide prime over the heavy and bulky zoom which is always used at the short end anyway.

Though low-end zooms sell in larger numbers it still makes sense to offer high-end primes to cover other segments than the consumer level.
Many enthusiastic and / or professional Canon users refuse to switch to a Nikon system simply because Nikon doesn't offer modern, fast AF-S primes on par with their beloved EF 2.8/14 L USM II, 1.4/24 L USM II, 1.4/35 L USM, 1.2/50 L USM, 1.2/85 L USM II and 2/135 L USM. What a prime line-up :thumbup:
I believe Nikon looses a lot of important potential customers.
 
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