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Thread: New D3s.

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    Super Duper
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    New D3s.

    I just received a "pre-order" notification from B&H concerning the new D3 ...
    which is supposed to start shipping approx. Nov. 27th.

    Upon reading the specifications, beyond the newly designed image sensor, insane ISO levels, useless video recording (IMO), and long needed sensor cleaning function, the thing that caught my eye was the claim to correct lateral CA in camera regardless of lens used ... non CPU included!

    If this is true, then lenses like the CA plagued Zeiss ZF 100/2 macro may be worth considering again

    Your thoughts on the camera over-all?

    -Marc

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    Re: New D3s.

    I think last time I said something about nikon lenses you said i was an idiot. but, so be it--I'll play on this one. I would buy the camera if one of mine where to magically disappear and I needed a replacement. (I have two D3 models). Sensor cleaning just isn't a big deal for me as I have shot the heck out of mine and manage to keep the sensor's fairly clean with an occasional blast from my big rubber blower thing. CA might be an issue, but can't you fix it in photoshop for the rare occasion it's a problem? I did an NHL game last night and 2500 ISO was all I needed. I have gone to 5000 with my current D3 and all is good enough for the editors. I would like the larger buffer though. If I want to do video--I'll rent a video camera.

    At some point a D4 will show up with all of the D3s features but more mega pixels to stay up with the new Canon. At that point I probably will pull out the credit card. I really want these D3 models I have to pay for themselves first. The biggest problem I have with Nikon is the lens situation: the long primes are priced too high compared to canon; the pro zooms (14-24 and 24-70) are fickle in their construction--too much plastic leads to repairs; and as noted, poor fast primes in the lower ranges.

  3. #3
    ddk
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    Re: New D3s.

    I guess since I didn't find D3's IQ particularly appealing, I don't see myself getting excited about the D3s either...

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    Senior Member deepdiver's Avatar
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    Re: New D3s.

    Same here, I will be very excited if nikon come out with 35/1.4 Af-s Nano and 85/1.4 AF-S Nano coating
    Leica M9 | SE 18 | Lux 24 | Lux 50 | ZM 35 | Nikon D700 | 35/1.8 | 45 PC-E | 50/1.4 | 70-200 VR II | SB 800+600 |SF 58|

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    Re: New D3s.

    ddk

    we really don't know what the IQ will be out of the D3s yet since we have seen it field tested. with the expanded ISO range, makes one wonder if other compromises were made that might effect IQ, but maybe Nikon pulled a rabbit out of the hat and IQ is actually better. i guess we'll see. btw, i don't have any problems with the D3 IQ but my standards probably aren't as high as your (or eyesight!). i have read some people don't like the colors and other's the 'skin' quality but i find i can edit so much quicker with the D3 than I could with my canon mk3.

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    Re: New D3s.

    Quote Originally Posted by fultonpics View Post
    I think last time I said something about nikon lenses you said i was an idiot. but, so be it--I'll play on this one. I would buy the camera if one of mine where to magically disappear and I needed a replacement. (I have two D3 models). Sensor cleaning just isn't a big deal for me as I have shot the heck out of mine and manage to keep the sensor's fairly clean with an occasional blast from my big rubber blower thing. CA might be an issue, but can't you fix it in photoshop for the rare occasion it's a problem? I did an NHL game last night and 2500 ISO was all I needed. I have gone to 5000 with my current D3 and all is good enough for the editors. I would like the larger buffer though. If I want to do video--I'll rent a video camera.

    At some point a D4 will show up with all of the D3s features but more mega pixels to stay up with the new Canon. At that point I probably will pull out the credit card. I really want these D3 models I have to pay for themselves first. The biggest problem I have with Nikon is the lens situation: the long primes are priced too high compared to canon; the pro zooms (14-24 and 24-70) are fickle in their construction--too much plastic leads to repairs; and as noted, poor fast primes in the lower ranges.
    Hmm, I don't believe I've ever called anyone an idiot except perhaps myself. Could you point to the post where I did, and I'll issue a public apology immediately.

    Your points concerning the camera are all well taken.

    When I did have a D3, I also never found dust to be an issue either, and an occasional application of the Arctic Butterfly took care of any that did get in.

    The high ISO performance is one I go back-and-forth on continuously. It seems that attribute has replaced meg count as the new "arms race" for the camera makers.
    But your real world experience tends to mirror my own. One of the exercises I suggest in an article on Wedding and Event equipment is to study the exif data from a number of folders to see what you are really using as opposed to what you think you need. I found my ISOs overwhelmingly bunched up in the 500 to 1250 area ... which most any modern DSLR can handle these days. In short, I rarely used the best attribute of the D3.

    I also agree that the lens situation is Nikon's weakest attraction. However, so far, the new AFS zooms seem to be holding up far better than the Canon counterparts I previously used ... especially the much relied upon 24-70. I had my Canon version break on the job 2 different times, and a replacement break with-in the first month. Pricing on all Pro level lenses has become breathtakingly high. The new 70-200/2.8 VR-II is estimated at well over $2,000. Outrageous!

    No joy from Nikon concerning updated or new fast primes either. For my work, the manual focus Zeiss lenses aren't an option. I didn't pay for a state-of-the-art AF camera to send it back to the 1950's in performance.

    If Nikon could have managed to keep the current D3s ISO performance to ISO 5000, while increasing the meg count a little bit more (like 16-18 meg), it would have been of more interest to me.

    I do hope the camera makers start to think more of useful features other than meg count and ever higher ISO claims.

    The "rumored" new Sony flagship camera not only boasts 34.8 meg .... more importantly it allegedly provides a 1/12,000 top shutter speed with a true sync speed of 1/1000.
    Both of which I most certainly could use in my line of work it the spec's are true. For what I do, Alpha mount Zeiss AF lenses are not an issue ... and while Sony has stalled further lenses in the line-up it may well be due to the impending launch of this new camera. We'll see.

    -Marc

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    ddk
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    Re: New D3s.

    Quote Originally Posted by fultonpics View Post
    ddk

    we really don't know what the IQ will be out of the D3s yet since we have seen it field tested. with the expanded ISO range, makes one wonder if other compromises were made that might effect IQ, but maybe Nikon pulled a rabbit out of the hat and IQ is actually better. i guess we'll see. btw, i don't have any problems with the D3 IQ but my standards probably aren't as high as your (or eyesight!). i have read some people don't like the colors and other's the 'skin' quality but i find i can edit so much quicker with the D3 than I could with my canon mk3.
    I'm not sure if it has anything to do with my standards vs yours; camera is a tool and its our intended purposes and subjective tastes that differ.

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    Subscriber Member TRSmith's Avatar
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    Re: New D3s.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    ...

    I do hope the camera makers start to think more of useful features other than meg count and ever higher ISO claims...

    -Marc
    I have to believe that the reason they (the camera makers) focus on those two items more than anything else is due in large part to the high proportion of comments/reviews that are published/posted about those very things. "Hey, check this out! Shot from inside a cow, handheld at f5.6 with just a Bic lighter held in front of the cow's eye for illumination! And, I made a 30" x 40" print with no problem!"

    It might be interesting to do a poll and see what the real-world, top-five requirements are.

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: New D3s.

    Quote Originally Posted by TRSmith View Post
    It might be interesting to do a poll and see what the real-world, top-five requirements are.
    We are in a transition period. My guess is that the D5 will be a kind of Panasonic GH1 on steroids, EVF and all. I'm not sure if I like it, but I'm sure that's where we're heading. The result is that new cameras will have all kinds of new electronic gadget that most of us could do well without, but that the camera manufacturers will implement because it's a part of the transition.

    I agree about the lenses. As good as they are optically, they don't feel right in my hand. I just bought a 300mm f/4 AF D. It feels like it's made by a blacksmith, and I'm sure it can be used to hammer nails, but it's very sound optically, and will probably last forever (as opposed to the two 17-35 lenses that sat next to it with a note saying "discounted price, focus motor broken").

    Will all the gadget help us make better photos? Possibly, and for the young people who grow up with this stuff, a life without it is probably unthinkable. My only surprise with the D3s is that they didn't implement 1080p. People will use these cameras for videos, and I've seen some really creative stuff done lately.

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    ddk
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    Re: New D3s.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    ... For my work, the manual focus Zeiss lenses aren't an option. I didn't pay for a state-of-the-art AF camera to send it back to the 1950's in performance.
    -Marc
    And the M9 is 21st century tech Marc?

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    Re: New D3s.

    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    And the M9 is 21st century tech Marc?
    Rangefinders are exempt from that ... they aren't AF so I'm not paying for AF and then not using it.

    Besides, focusing a DSLR manually isn't the same as focusing a rangefinder ... or even close to it.

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    ddk
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    Re: New D3s.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Rangefinders are exempt from that ... they aren't AF so I'm not paying for AF and then not using it.

    Besides, focusing a DSLR manually isn't the same as focusing a rangefinder ... or even close to it.
    True, my point was that there's nothing wrong with old tech if it still works, heck I still can't use a zoom effectively nor have I made peace with AF but sure like D3's finder for mf!

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    Re: New D3s.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Will all the gadget help us make better photos? Possibly, and for the young people who grow up with this stuff, a life without it is probably unthinkable. My only surprise with the D3s is that they didn't implement 1080p. People will use these cameras for videos, and I've seen some really creative stuff done lately.
    Not to "invade" this Nikon thread, but to Jorgen's point.....the new Saturday Night Live (SNL) opening credits movie clips were taken with a Canon 5DMkII and the new 7D in HD video. So there are folks that are seriously using these sorts of features, and in ways we had previously not expected. Like a lot of still shooters, I have not really found the HD video feature all that important. However, even my thoughts on that are starting to change after seeing what sorts of things could be done. So high ISO and good video as part of a DSLR package are not sounding like such a bad thing to me anymore

    LJ

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    Re: New D3s.

    marc

    i totally agree the canon 24-70 is also frail--we have one in ny and it has gone in twice after being lightly 'bumped'. the thing is a plastic marvel (but it is very sharp). i remember the golden years of manual focus nikon lenses that could keep a lic-kin and keep on tic-kin.

    video in still camera's, i guess this will be the rage with so called photojournalists and likely will be a major part of the photojournalist curriculum. us old school guys will have to adapt--sort of like when we all argued film could never be replaced by digital (there might be a few of those still alive somewhere). the magazines are heading online (think apple tablet, etc) and video is more compelling to many in that format. so a still lead-in photo with a click video imbedded. soon we will be reading more and more about the video features rather than the still specs in the new pro camera bodies.

    a big issues will be the networks that pay millions for sports and entertainment rights--these camera's totally freak them out. if i can stand on the sidelines and catch great video with my still camera--then down load it on my blog--someone named NBC or FOX isn't going to be smiling. In fact, I suspect this is going to be a WAR--and soon they will try to get NFL, MLB the PGA, etc to ban the camera's. The credentials already ban video, but if you are standing there with the capability...We'll see.

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: New D3s.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I agree about the lenses. As good as they are optically, they don't feel right in my hand. I just bought a 300mm f/4 AF D. It feels like it's made by a blacksmith, and I'm sure it can be used to hammer nails, but it's very sound optically, and will probably last forever (as opposed to the two 17-35 lenses that sat next to it with a note saying "discounted price, focus motor broken").
    I pretty much guarantee that those lenses don't have broken focus motors! The infamous 17-35 squeak perhaps, annoying yes, but not 'broken'.

    I have the D3s on order, primarily to replace or compliment my D700. I sold my last D3 when I bought the D3x and I actually miss the D3's ergonomics - hence the purchase. I could, of course, pick up a discounted/used D3 but the newer camera is appealing as the ultimate low light/speed machine for faster nature shooting, plus I like the new ergonomics (live view button/info etc). There's also the warranty & support advantage. However, I think it would be very tough to move from a D3 to a D3s unless you had to for some reason. That seems like an expensive side-grade to me unless you had a truly compelling need for video or the extra ISO.

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    Re: New D3s.

    graham

    well, we will be awaiting your feedback on the camera once you get it! especially the low light capability. congrats

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: New D3s.

    Well, I may hold out a little longer with the current D700 for fast FF work vs D3s. The rumour mill is now at full speed about the D4 being in field testing. That sounds like a better option even if it's a ways off. It'll also give the camera budget some time to recover from the beating I've been giving it recently.

    However, I'm looking forward to the new 70-200VR II in the meantime. I'm off on vacation for a couple of weeks and so hopefully that'll be arriving when I get back in December. Maybe ...

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