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Thread: D3 at 6400 ISO

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    D3 at 6400 ISO

    This is the sort of capture that I have been trying to get with the M8 and Noctilux but just couldn't get the focus nailed in such dim light. The D3 at Iso 6400... the blind man's Noctilux

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    One more from the same party... Guy, if this looks at all familiar it's the same house I had my Bday party at.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    Yes it does look familiar, nice house too. 6400 who would have thought this 15 years ago we were happy with no noise at ISO 25. Come a long way.

    BTW just wait till you get your 85mm it is pretty darn sweet. I hope the Zeiss works for me because if not going right back to the Nikon
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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    David
    Not you too!!!

    What's with this Nikon stuff. I must say the high ISO work is impressive, but the images (likely the glass) is depressive.

    I wonder how long this will last?

    I still think the Leica files are way better. They have a life I just don't see in the Nikon (and actually, Nikkor is what I used for 20 years first)

    I am sure there are professional reasons for Guy, But I am curious what drove David and Kurt to the Nokin platform.

    ...and of course, it just delays the inevitable...


    Medium Format, Duh!

    regards
    Voictor

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    This is the sort of capture that I have been trying to get with the M8 and Noctilux but just couldn't get the focus nailed in such dim light. The D3 at Iso 6400... the blind man's Noctilux
    I like this shot but I have to say on my screen the area to the right of the woman's head at the stairs and then behind on the wall does not look like grain but a maize pattern on my screen. Whoops the quote didn't get the picture but it is the top one.

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    I will likely be accused of 'flaming' (but how can you flame at -5 C in the snow

    Here's what the Leica can do at 1250, ambient light, 1/30 28mm I think at 2.0

    Now, shall I point out the presence, and depth felling? Maybe they will only see it over in the M section

    Victor
    Last edited by gogopix; 25th January 2015 at 17:22.

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    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    That looks good to me
    -bob

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    Well 1250 from an M8 looks like 4000 from a D3 ;-). No really I am almost completely serious.

    IMO to complain about whether or not an image at 6400 is perfect or not (see my recording photos post at 12,800) is crazy. We are in territory where no film has gone before and it is far far better. I've shot TMZ and way back Kodak recording film at 6400) Complain? Not me.

    I ADD grain to ISO 3200 shots now from the D3 on occasion. My Thanksgiving low light take with an M8 w/75lux vs my Xmas take with D3 and 50 1.4 and 85 1.8, well no comparison. ISO 3200 with D3 CRUSHES the M8 at 640. And 1 in 50 shots is OOF from the D3. The focus vs keeper rate with eh M8 is nowhere near that good.

    I like the M8. I just wish it was the low light king the M used to be over an SLR in the film days.

    The M's advantages are huge in many ways, I have M's for almost 30yrs now.

    It is sad the the real advantage any rangefinder has over an SLR is often the most unreliable or I should say inconsistant area of the M8 and that is focusing. I will never argue that Nikon lenses compare to M's.

    All that is for another forum. I will say you have to make prints from these 3200/6400/12,800 files to really get how very very far we've come.

    Considering how super super warm the light is in these shots which really brings out noise/grain they are even more impressive. 6400 in something closer to daylight is even better.

    Neil

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    Actually, I was referring to ALL Nikon shots.

    If you "lika' Leica" look, then you are usually unsatisfied with Conikon looks. I only pointed out that the M can do a reasonable job at 1250, for candid shots.

    For large prints, we have seen many examples of the LL up to 20x30 inches. However, non Laica glass has a different look (even from Zeiss, which to me seems a 'cool' look.

    Maybe it is not 'better' just different. However, I have never seen someone say :
    " Look at this Nikkor image; really excitibg, lots of life-Leica glass never looks like this..."

    I must say the D3 D300 images are impressive at high ISO.

    but I find myself saying "They look good, for a Nikon..." (with due apologies to the girls in the crowd!)

    Regards
    Victor

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    Ow Jeez Vitcor so now I'm a girl? ;-) Joking , joking.

    Trust me. I want an M8 to be able to shoot at 6400 and I want it to look good. I want the focus issues sorted too but I could live with just great hi ISO.

    The lenses are different. I could always and I'm counting thousands of rolls of film, always tell even looking at wet TX whether that was a Leica roll or a Nikon roll.

    Until I went digital capture my Nikons were dust magnets and the M's got used. No point in arguing the glass, but I can argue where I can now shoot and with what success rate.

    Girl

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    Sorry, guess I am old and UN-PC

    I was referring to sayings like (eg in baseball)

    "that was a nice hit, for a girl...!"

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    All good Victor. We don't need no stinkin' PC here.

    Neil

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    I will likely be accused of 'flaming' (but how can you flame at -5 C in the snow

    Here's what the Leica can do at 1250, ambient light, 1/30 28mm I think at 2.0

    Now, shall I point out the presence, and depth felling? Maybe they will only see it over in the M section

    Victor
    Hey isn t that Vail? The same guy was there a month ago when I was shooting.

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    yup
    painting goes slowly 'pleine aire' esp in the snow!

    Gives new meaning to the phrase 'sign painter' though

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    Victor,
    You'll get no argument from me about the Leica files being better than the Nikon... but an in focus Nikon shot beats an OOF Leica shot by a wide margin. One of my high priorities when moving to the Leica M8 was a desire to be able to capture those magical wide open low light shots with the Luxes. It's frustrating that I'm not able to obtain those shots due to an inability (most times mine, less frequently the lens) to focus accurately. Nikon to the rescue with it's astounding high ISO and low light focusing abilities. And just for the record... these ain't no girlie girl cameras (With my apologies for this politically incorrect comment to the many extremely competent female photographers among us.)

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    Guy has some impressive portaits with his girlie 105 nikkor in the sharpness setting thread. hard to criticize those for missing any glow, they are impressive

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    No doubt, many, many Leica M and R lenses are superlative. But, you can close the gap by picking the right Nikon lenses and pairing them with a camera that eases your ability to make the capture.

    Any opinions on the Nikon 105 vs. Nikon 180 vs. 70-200? (sorry for the tangent David)

    Kurt

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    Well let's face a few facts. Nikon always made good glass , now they jumped over the edge and made even better glass. Frankly that 105 macro is priced to low for what you are getting. It is so sharp it does scare me. The 180 2.8 i have been shooting this is a 800 dollar lens and it is excellent. The 85 Nikon another 1k lens and excellent. If you get the right Nikon lenses there are just flat out damn good. Are they like the Leica glass, no they are not but you do go home with images. Now i will be really honest here. I just got back shooting a meeting here in town with some grip and grins thrown in the mix. The D300 is a charm to shoot in these situation. 3 in LCD that is good for reviewing , no waiting zooming, not a second delay here folks. Info button that turns the back LCD into the Shooting LCD on the top deck and no reading glasses . AF that hunts like a greyhound and nails everything in sight. Just move focus points around and even manual focus will confirm at any AF point. Now is this thing full of gimmicks , no freaking question but some of it is useful as hell too. I like simple too folks but i also like info available that I can use. Now is it a M8 no way and the M8 will produce a better files no question but for me not everything has to be that quality either but to be honest it is not in the least far behind it either. I am getting some pretty sweet results and you all know how damn picky I am about image quality. This is great for some things but not everything. Those shots of my son , speak volumes to me with the 85 and the 105 macro. Hard to deny it . I am still a Leica guy and that will never change totally but I am rethinking what each system will provide for me. I was totally dependent on the M8 to shoot everything , now I can back off that a little and readjust. I'm actually pretty happy.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Well let's face a few facts. Nikon always made good glass , now they jumped over the edge and made even better glass. Frankly that 105 macro is priced to low for what you are getting. It is so sharp it does scare me. The 180 2.8 i have been shooting this is a 800 dollar lens and it is excellent. The 85 Nikon another 1k lens and excellent. If you get the right Nikon lenses there are just flat out damn good. Are they like the Leica glass, no they are not but you do go home with images. Now i will be really honest here. I just got back shooting a meeting here in town with some grip and grins thrown in the mix. The D300 is a charm to shoot in these situation. 3 in LCD that is good for reviewing , no waiting zooming, not a second delay here folks. Info button that turns the back LCD into the Shooting LCD on the top deck and no reading glasses . AF that hunts like a greyhound and nails everything in sight. Just move focus points around and even manual focus will confirm at any AF point. Now is this thing full of gimmicks , no freaking question but some of it is useful as hell too. I like simple too folks but i also like info available that I can use. Now is it a M8 no way and the M8 will produce a better files no question but for me not everything has to be that quality either but to be honest it is not in the least far behind it either. I am getting some pretty sweet results and you all know how damn picky I am about image quality. This is great for some things but not everything. Those shots of my son , speak volumes to me with the 85 and the 105 macro. Hard to deny it . I am still a Leica guy and that will never change totally but I am rethinking what each system will provide for me. I was totally dependent on the M8 to shoot everything , now I can back off that a little and readjust. I'm actually pretty happy.
    Guy, after a first "welcome" to the Nikon world, now that you started seeing what cam & glass can do I feel is time for a real "welcome" by the way, except the 105 macro VR, the 180 & the 85 aren't really new; 85 1.4 AF has been introduced in 1980, 180 f2.8 in 1986 (mark II, the actual version you got, in 1988): so we are talking a 20 yo and an almost 30 yo design, actually - they hold out pretty well I think that the Nikkor lineup at the moment is a formidable one, with maybe the lack of a fast WA (the 28 1.4 is now discontinued) and some somehow outdated and not too great primes wider than 35 (28, 24, 18 aren't fantastic lenses; 20mm is better but not great IMHO). Other than that, zoom are great both in the Pro & amateur format; primes from 35 & up are just fantastic, though they lack AF-s up to the 105 macro; flash system is wonderful; ergonomics on camera are great IMHO; now that high ISO has been tackled with the D3, FF has been offered with the D3, all they lack is a high-MP FF camera for those who need it. Me - I am a very happy camper with D300, D3, 14-24, 35 f2, 50 f1.4, 85 f1.4, 105 macro VR, 105 f2 DC (great lens!), 180, 70-200 VR.
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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    Well I just jumped into the fire pit. I know the lenses i have the 85 and 180 are past lenses the new 105 macro is awesome and I just bought a new 24mm shift and a new Zeiss 50 1.4. I should say i traded

    So now I have the 17-35, Zeiss 50 1.4 , Zeiss 85 1.4, 105mm and the 180mm . Pretty damn good setup I think and hope. I just reworked my M8 setup a little with some glass. I sold my Nikon 85 to David K . He will love it , not sure the Zeiss will be better but I will try it and if not get the Nikon again. For the wide stuff I will use my M8 . Not much can touch Leica wides. i reworked my top end of the leica's sold my 50 lux ASPH, 75 Lux and 135 apo and got a 50 pre ASPH and a 75 cron. I should also say i traded.


    So leica now is 12CV, Zeiss 18, Leica 21, Leica 28, 35 cron version IV , 50 pre asph and 75 cron. I am crazy.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    I know this is a D3 thread but here is a D300 at 3200 shot handheld with the 180 at 3.5 and 1/400 of a second( I was shaky today), no sharpening and no noise reduction straight from the box
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    BTW this was under flouresant ( spelling) and on AWB no corrections made to CB.

    This one a little noise reduction in LR , I need to find a little better setup for ISO 3200
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    I can't do this with a M8. Not a 180mm or effective 270 mm lens at ISO 3200
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I can't do this with a M8. Not a 180mm or effective 270 mm lens at ISO 3200
    Yes....and you tell me to wait

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    Just 2 weeks more. Than I will get you all hooked up . Better clear out that Credit card first.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    so with that great high ISO my choice is hassey lens on a D3 or Leica on a 5D?

    Can Nikon take Leica lenses

    Victor

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    They can take Zeiss ZF's and i have 2 coming 50 and 85mm.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    I think I can also put Hassy on the Nikon but not Leica that i know off
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    Muchas gracias!

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I think I can also put Hassy on the Nikon but not Leica that i know off
    Son Son!

    Where are you?

    You have half a millameter to play with! That shoiuld CERTAINLY be enough for a Leica ("R" of course) to Nikon adapter

    Victor

    PS What about a mount change? Guy didnt you have a Leica changed to an "F" mount once upon a time (in your youth :-) )

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    Could not change from Nikon to Leica with regard to mount. Not sure about Leica to Nikon though, I bet there is a way to do it. Nikon has been around forever. Maybe SK Grimes in Boston
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    I've actually got a Hassy to Nikon adapter coming from Son, higher quality than the fotodiox (and more $$). Novoflex sells a pair of adapters ($500) which do the same thing, available from Adorama but not in stock despite what their web site shows.

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    David,
    Have same issue on Novoflex in past at Adorama.
    I just order directly from Novoflex

    Victor

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    Victor, the Zeiss ZF lenses are "AI-S type" lenses with an aperture ring, and the whole point is that high end Nikon cameras like D3 and D300 do meter with AI-S type lenses. You set the aperture with the aperture ring. The aperture remains open while you focus and the camera meters, and when you fire the shutter the aperture iris closes. So no stop down metering with Nikon + ZF lenses. And the ZF lenses are also born "Nikon F-mount" lenses, so no need for adapters that add yet another alignment issue.

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    but for Leica?

    what happens if you change to Nokon mount?

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    Guy,

    great to see you finally are making your way to Nikon - at least a start

    I am very happy with the D3 and the 14-24, 28-70, 70-200VR, 81.4/85 and 105VR. Excellent stuff and compared to Leica a bargain

    And WRT speed of operation it is not comparable to any existing Leica product.

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    Yes Peter it is a fun system. i actually shot Nikon for many years in my past and always loved there systems. Now finally they have some digital DSLR's that truly add a lot of value to shooters and there newer glass is really nice. It is going to help me with some commercial work that i was struggling with on the M8. So they will take on a little different roles now. I tried to get to just the M8 and did okay for awhile but as a commercial shooter that gets called on for many things it was getting harder to just do M8 only. I needed some help here for that. Getting some longer glass is a real help for some of this stuff and the grip and grin stuff
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    well, how old a lens will work? I bought a Nikon in 1969 (honeymoon!), first 'good' camera after my aunt's old Kodak and Bronica . Don't even know where it is, but with enough incentive I can look! (although I would likely us hassey or Zeiss. The 85mm should be GREAT as should the 21mm distagon at the high ISO

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    They can take Zeiss ZF's and i have 2 coming 50 and 85mm.
    Guy

    I am also planning to get a couple of Zeiss lenses and I looked at the 85 1.4 but the 100 f2 macro seems a considerably better lens, at least if you read the very thorough Lloyd Chambers report.

    Since I have so much respect for your judgements on such matters i wonder if you looked at the 100 and if so why you chose the 85.

    Thanks in advance for sharing

    Woody

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    but for Leica?
    what happens if you change to Nokon mount?
    I don't think the flange focal distance (or "register") allows us to put a Leica R lens on a Nikon F mount camera body. See e.g. the second last sentence in this wiki link:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leica_R
    But if it could be done, we would (as usual) have to initially focus with the aperture wide open, secondly stop down the aperture ring on the lens to the desired aperture, and finally fire the shutter. Pretty bothersome in my mind. And besides we would have to use an adapter to mount the lens in the first place, thus adding alignment issues. Not so with the ZF lenses on a high end Nikon body. With an AIS type lens the aperture iris closes automatically when you fire the shutter, according to the chosen aperture, with the camera in Aperture Priority mode.
    Please, Victor, forgive me if I have totally misunderstood your question, my english isn't too good ?
    Last edited by Steen; 27th March 2008 at 15:45.

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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by bondo View Post
    I don't think the flange focal distance (or "register") allows us to put a Leica R lens on a Nikon F mount camera body. See e.g. the second last sentence in this wiki link:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leica_R
    But if it could be done, we would (as usual) have to initially focus with the aperture wide open, secondly stop down the aperture ring on the lens to the desired aperture, and finally fire the shutter. Pretty bothersome in my mind. And besides we would have to use an adapter to mount the lens in the first place, thus adding alignment issues. Not so with the ZF lenses on a high end Nikon body. With an AIS type lens the aperture iris closes automatically when you fire the shutter, according to the chosen aperture, with the camera in Aperture Priority mode.
    Please, Victor, forgive me if I have totally misunderstood your question, my english isn't too good ?
    I do trhat all the time withhassey lenses (the V with leaf shutter)

    see this;

    "...The flange focal distance of 47 mm is fairly large, meaning that few other systems' lenses can be adapted to fit on a Leica R and retain infinity focus, but R lenses can be converted to other systems. The distance is only 0.5 mm larger than the Nikon F-mount, which is not sufficient to make a workable adapter; however, at least one Nikon camera has been modified with a Leica R bayonet mount to take R lenses.

    ..." so it COULD be done by changing out the Nikon body mount ("R" body mounts can be gotten from some viso adaptersI think)

    but really, TOOOO extreme.

    For Leica lenses, "get a canon" seems to be the answer

  43. #43
    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    Not quite sure about which of the two methods you say you use "all the time with Hasselblad lenses" ... but I can't imagine it is 'stop down metering'. I therefore assume you mean firing with automatically closing aperture iris, right ? At least that is what I would expect from a lens specifically made for the Hasselblad camera system.

    And that is what the manual focus ZF lenses do when put on high level Nikon camera bodies. The ZF lenses are made specifically for the Nikon F mount system. If you put them on a Canon EF mount body with an adapter they no longer act like AIS lenses, and you are again left with stop down metering, just like if you put a Leica R lens on a Canon EOS camera with an adapter.

    Stop down metering is too much hassle for my taste. That's why I would anytime prefer "Zeiss ZF on Nikon without adapter" to "Leica R on Canon with adapter" even though I would expect Leica glass to be even better than Zeiss glass. At least Leica glass is usually optimized to perform extremely well wide open, while Zeiss lenses usually gain from being stopped down a couple of stops. But at the end the preference is probably a matter of personal taste (and maybe price also).

    Summa summarum: For Leica lenses, "wait patiently and get an R10" seems to me to be the one and only adequate answer
    I hope the R10 will be affordable. Otherwise I will sell my R lenses and go "ZF on Nikon".

  44. #44
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: D3 at 6400 ISO

    hassey of C645 is simple; mode manual, set aperture you want on hassey,9H has an aperture release/lock sliding switch in both CF and FE lenses, called "F" position) move speed ring till exposure where you want.
    yes, if you cant see at 5.6 eg you need to focus at wide open then stop dow.

    But any camera will meter stopped down I believe and even show a nify + or - bar scale (so you can 'push' the exposure as we used to push development)

    In Cintax the Hassey lenses even have focus confirmation since the focus is independent of lens

    I dont find it much of a bother at all, but NOT ofr sports (except prefucused shots, say at a turn in a car race.)

    you gotta want the lens look to bother though. In general I agree-stick with the camera manufacturers lenses.

    BTW< for AF, the bigger deal for those who went Nikon because a higher % of shots are in focus NEDD the Nikkor lenses (they still call them that, yes?)

    Victor

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