D300 and import sharpening

[popum]

I'm wondering what raw import sharpening you all do in Lightroom/ACR? Where do you place the sliders as your starting point?

I think I'm seeing the need for more sharpening with the D300 than with some other cameras.

Thanks

Mike

 

[TRSmith]

Just to bump this. I'm curious about the new Nikons and have heard/read something similar about the need for more aggressive sharpening.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Straight off LR in default . 85mm at 1.4 and than 2.5. Really pretty damn good. I have yet to adjust outside my normal sharpening for the M8

 

[Guy Mancuso]

default being sharpness 25. Radius 1 detail 25.

Now i just sold this lens for the Zeiss 85mm and it may have been a bad idea but i want to try the Zeiss . But the bokeh on this sucker is really a lot like my Lux 75mm but I think they Zeiss may get even closer in look.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Now here is the 105 macro at F3 and sharper still So if you have the good glass may not be as bad as some say. I think there using a weak AA filter on this. Thank you Nikon

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Another reason I want to try the Zeiss is i want a serious glow at 1.4 because the 105 macro is really sharp wide open and has nice bokeh , easily can be used for normal portrait stuff as you can see still a nice delicate image.

Okay off to a gig

 

[glenerrolrd]

Another reason I want to try the Zeiss is i want a serious glow at 1.4 because the 105 macro is really sharp wide open and has nice bokeh , easily can be used for normal portrait stuff as you can see still a nice delicate image.

Okay off to a gig

Please feel free to jump all over this if I am just off base. I have looked very closely at the D3 ,DMR and M8 files. Its not about sharpness...its about saturation and tone separation. To be specific the boy s skin has little tone differences...it looks flat. Now I have a lot of these images from shooting Spring Training with my D3 and the M8s. The colors have lot less Pop than a Leica file. So here is the test ..given your best efforts can you make a D3 image look like a M8 image..if you mixed them together in portfolio could any amateur pick out the leica files. That has always been my view of the quality differences. Have at me . Roger

 

[woodyspedden]

Straight off LR in default . 85mm at 1.4 and than 2.5. Really pretty damn good. I have yet to adjust outside my normal sharpening for the M8

WOW Guy

The 105 is really a sharp lens............more so than I might have expected. Probably have to get one of these puppies at this price. What's to lose?

Woody

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Please feel free to jump all over this if I am just off base. I have looked very closely at the D3 ,DMR and M8 files. Its not about sharpness...its about saturation and tone separation. To be specific the boy s skin has little tone differences...it looks flat. Now I have a lot of these images from shooting Spring Training with my D3 and the M8s. The colors have lot less Pop than a Leica file. So here is the test ..given your best efforts can you make a D3 image look like a M8 image..if you mixed them together in portfolio could any amateur pick out the leica files. That has always been my view of the quality differences. Have at me . Roger

Roger we will not see much in this area with this lighting . It is just flat open shade but that maybe the difference between brands also, we all love what leica does with in terms of color, tone and such. Can you get them close. I believe to a certain degree you can. This also depends on how much you want to work at it too. This will take some direct compares which i have not done yet. One thing is for sure the D300 loses a stop DR to the M8. So somewhere you need to make that up. So far i see that as the biggest difference and color will be somewhat different. Nikon tends to be cool and Leica as we know tends to be warm. That is a easy fix. That could be what is throwing you off a little on your spring training, go back and look at what color temp was coming in than warm it up to 5400. My bet is it was 4800

 

[Guy Mancuso]

WOW Guy

The 105 is really a sharp lens............more so than I might have expected. Probably have to get one of these puppies at this price. What's to lose?

Woody

I am selling mine and getting the smaller 60mm. For the D3 shooter the 105 will be better and i don't use macro so much , was more for studio and with the D300 a 60 would work better for me. But yes it is killer sharp

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Roger the ones previous posted are straight from the can but I would normally have warmed them up to look more like this. They came in at 4350 kelvin which is cool and for open shade about right. Bumped it up to about 5100 kelvin. Looks more natural now. This is the 105 sharpened a little

 

[glenerrolrd]

Roger we will not see much in this area with this lighting . It is just flat open shade but that maybe the difference between brands also, we all love what leica does with in terms of color, tone and such. Can you get them close. I believe to a certain degree you can. This also depends on how much you want to work at it too. This will take some direct compares which i have not done yet. One thing is for sure the D300 loses a stop DR to the M8. So somewhere you need to make that up. So far i see that as the biggest difference and color will be somewhat different. Nikon tends to be cool and Leica as we know tends to be warm. That is a easy fix. That could be what is throwing you off a little on your spring training, go back and look at what color temp was coming in than warm it up to 5400. My bet is it was 4800

Guy I will have to get my act together on posting some of these as I have plenty to choose from. I shot Spring Training maybe 20 games ....almost half with the D3 and half with the M8. I developed a pre set (which I know lots of the forum members could improve) for the D3 . This gave the D3 shots more pop right out of the import ..and I think they are pretty good conversions..for an amateur. The M8 shots just come at the Lightroom standard. My goal was to make these look the same . I just can not do it. The strong colors of the uniforms ,Cardinals Red and Mets Blue , just block up and lose the tones that add detail to the image with the D3. If you shoot Kodachrome you would just say that the lenses draw differently but with digital you can easily match color balance etc . So the question I have ..is lets say you shoot an assignment with both the M8 and the D3...and flash isn t an issue....can you produce a set of images that sort of look similar ? If not doesn t this potentially screw up your results .

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Guy I will have to get my act together on posting some of these as I have plenty to choose from. I shot Spring Training maybe 20 games ....almost half with the D3 and half with the M8. I developed a pre set (which I know lots of the forum members could improve) for the D3 . This gave the D3 shots more pop right out of the import ..and I think they are pretty good conversions..for an amateur. The M8 shots just come at the Lightroom standard. My goal was to make these look the same . I just can not do it. The strong colors of the uniforms ,Cardinals Red and Mets Blue , just block up and lose the tones that add detail to the image with the D3. If you shoot Kodachrome you would just say that the lenses draw differently but with digital you can easily match color balance etc . So the question I have ..is lets say you shoot an assignment with both the M8 and the D3...and flash isn t an issue....can you produce a set of images that sort of look similar ? If not doesn t this potentially screw up your results .

It's a great question and that is something I am going to have to try and I get my chance next week in Kansas. I will be shooting both . I have cockpits of general aviation to shoot, exteriors to shoot and damn they want shots of them flying too, plus some studio stuff. So I am looking at a mixed bag of gear to handle all this. Than I will have to make them look pretty close to each other to match.

Now on the D3 not sure about these files since I don't have it . But blocking up could be several things 12 bit instead of 14 bit for one, I know the D300 is 1 stop less DR that will cause some of that . The other may be simple settings in the D3 . From what I can tell the files are pretty saturated too so some of that may need knocking down.

 

[KurtKamka]

One thing I'm going to try is giving the 100mm zf a try to see if it may also be a little bit about how different brands of lenses draw. My 100ZF should arrive tomorrow and I'll post a few images. From the internet samples that I've seen, it tends to draw a little bit warmer and it'll be interesting to see how that might impact overall colors across the board.

Kurt

 

[kit laughlin]

Now on the D3 not sure about these files since I don't have it . But blocking up could be several things 12 bit instead of 14 bit for one, I know the D300 is 1 stop less DR that will cause some of that

Guy, I may have misread you here, but the D3 and the D300 both can shoot 14bit Raw files. This is selectable in the shooting menu under "NEF (RAW) RECORDING. Did you mean that Roger might have been shooting 12 bit?

I have shot both cameras at 12 and 14, and frankly I cannot see any difference that would make a difference in print. OTOH, I shoot all John Deere work at 14, because they like that.

I think the colour differences Roger mentions are likely more to do with the Leica glass—this is Nikon's only lack (that we can't fit Leica-R lenses to the bodies). cheers, kit

 

[glenerrolrd]

Guy, I may have misread you here, but the D3 and the D300 both can shoot 14bit Raw files. This is selectable in the shooting menu under "NEF (RAW) RECORDING. Did you mean that Roger might have been shooting 12 bit?

I have shot both cameras at 12 and 14, and frankly I cannot see any difference that would make a difference in print. OTOH, I shoot all John Deere work at 14, because they like that.

I think the colour differences Roger mentions are likely more to do with the Leica glass—this is Nikon's only lack (that we can't fit Leica-R lenses to the bodies). cheers, kit

Kit All my D3 images are at 14 bit. But thats a good thing to check. No question the lenses contribute to the color balance but we know thats not the whole story. Back in the K64 days we complained about the differences between summicrons warm and summiluxes cold . The DMR Bible showed that using the same R lenses on both the Canon and DMR bodies and they were still different. I think the color consistency can be solved ....maybe by calibrating the different bodies to a standard and then using presets based on body. Then the color renderings could be consistent. The goal is to mix images ..like you would in a wedding portfolio..and have them appear consitent...or at least not jump out at you as odd. .. Right now I can not mix my D3 images with the M8 images in a collection on spring training. Individually they are coming along; together they are to distinctive. Now I can do this with the DMR and M8 images but not the D3.

 

[kit laughlin]

The DMR Bible showed that using the same R lenses on both the Canon and DMR bodies and they were still different.

I agree 100% with this, too (I am thinking here of the old E-1 Kodak sensor vs. the new E-3 one). I had forgotten the Canon/DMR differences; it seems like a lifetime ago. Good luck with the inter-body calibration—that's going to take some work! I do agree though that it can be done, in principle. This is one of the reasons that my backup body is the D300. cheers, kl

 

[glenerrolrd]

I agree 100% with this, too (I am thinking here of the old E-1 Kodak sensor vs. the new E-3 one). I had forgotten the Canon/DMR differences; it seems like a lifetime ago. Good luck with the inter-body calibration—that's going to take some work! I do agree though that it can be done, in principle. This is one of the reasons that my backup body is the D300. cheers, kl

This to me is an important factor in using more than one system. I don t feel a need to calibrate 2 M8 s but using the D3 and an M8 for the same work group seems to be an issue. I think it gets worse if you bounce around between the various raw convertors. Kit I think you have this one solved with the D3 and the D300 and using ACR for everything. We can watch how Guy handles this as he appears to be headed for a assignment. LOL Roger

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Well look for thread on first real work impressions.