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Thread: Zeiss 100mm

  1. #51
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Kurt,

    I hope you are feeling REALLY guilty and ashamed today!!!!!!!!!

    I should have a ZF/100 in my hands on Friday to compare it with the Nikon 105VR this weekend. Maybe the Nikon will be up for sale next week?

    Best,

    Ray

  2. #52
    Senior Member LCT's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Quote Originally Posted by harmsr View Post
    ...In my case since I switch between MF Non-CPU lenses a lot. I have assigned the front FUNC button and the rear wheel to change those lenses for me. I press the FUNC button and the currently selected MF Non-CPU lens appears in the top display panel. If I want a different one, I just spin the rear wheel to which ever selection that I have already programmed in for these lenses (while holding the FUNC button down) and I'm done...
    No need to chimp then, sounds great to me, thks Ray.

  3. #53
    Subscriber Member KurtKamka's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Ray, I'm always glad to do my part to help others spend their money. It helps in lessening the guilt I have for spending too much of my own. I pursued the D3 to get away from manual focus ... now I find myself with two more manual focus lenses ... the zf50 and zf100. LOL

    Here's a simple prediction. The Nikon 105VR will be in the Buy&Sell section before the weekend is finished. It's that strong of a lens.

  4. #54
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Wow because the 105 Nikon is really sharp. Ray like to see that lens against my Zeiss 85 1.4. Hmmm maybe I better not . LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  5. #55
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Thinking 28 f2 , who has it and better than the 25 2.8.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  6. #56
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    To late bought the 28 F2. I'm soooooooooooooooooooooo bad
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  7. #57
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    To late bought the 28 F2. I'm soooooooooooooooooooooo bad
    I'm getting dizzy....

  8. #58
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    You . I'm in a permanent state of dizzy.

    Okay here is why
    This is logical , yea right.

    Special purpose photo shoots 24mm shift and 60 macro. D3

    Event stuff 17-35mm and 85mm 1.4 . D300

    Shows( runway and such) 180mm. D3 or D300 depends on distance and light.

    Advertising real work 28,50,85 Zeiss. D3

    Now if I need wide i turn to the M8 with 21mm and 12mm

    This is just for commercial work . Workshops personal, travel and all that M8 system.

    Not to say a 14-24 or 24-70 would not be nice to have but I am trying to avoid big again plus I believe and still do Primes will will be better than zooms. But I am open to be wrong on that and the new Nikon zooms may prove that theory wrong.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  9. #59
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Soi, guy, with all these sales dollars piling up, when (and WHAT?) happens when MF changes in your mind from 'manual focus to 'med......."

    Oh, I can't even say it!

  10. #60
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    MF is still on my radar button, no question. If i could have gone M8 and MF like Jack only and skip the Nikons i would but I do to much commercial work that the Nikons are to hard to avoid. I can't wait for the R10 that is January until they hit the streets and how much for cost of entry is a big question. But if it turns out to be a winner than I will sell the Nikon gear and get the R10. I love Leica gear but you ned to work too and pulling the DMR before the R10 was ready was bad for me and many others . I understand why but too big a gap in time
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  11. #61
    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Not to say a 14-24 or 24-70 would not be nice to have but I am trying to avoid big again plus I believe and still do Primes will will be better than zooms. But I am open to be wrong on that and the new Nikon zooms may prove that theory wrong.
    Hello Guy, I am also a prime kinda guy, my Nikon kit as far as primes is:
    - 10.5 f2.8 fisheye;
    - 35 f2;
    - 50 f1.4;
    - 85 f1.4;
    - 105 f2 DC;
    - 105 f2.8 macro VR;
    - 180 f2.8;

    while zooms are:
    - 14-24 f2.8;
    - 70-200 f2.8 VR;

    However, since the 17-35 & 28-70, Nikon WA & standard zooms have been better than 2.8 primes in equivalent range (18, 20, 24, 28; the 35 f2 is a very tough one to beat IMHO); as the 14-24 got better than the 17-35 (and is better than the 14 f2.8 at 14mm) and the 24-70 better than the 28-70 - do your math... Of course, this doesn't count where and if speed is an issue, of where DOF control is important: 24-70 wouldn't be able to beat 35 f2 or 50 f1.8 - 1.4, or the fantastic 85 f1.4 in this case. As well, if one is willing to give up AF those Zeiss are looking very sweet, very likely (I didn't try them) sweeter than the new zooms.

    Other than that, I'd go with 14-24 + 24-70. Two lens, do it all - they are big, especially the 14-24 is a huge bugger, but if you have to lug around 4-5 lenses instead, the advantage is pretty much gone; not to mention, much less lens change, much less dust problems.

    Just my .02 of course.
    Vieri Bottazzini
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  12. #62
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Guy,

    Glad that you got the 28 ZF. Like we talked, I think it is better than the 25 both technically and the rendering style we like. Although the 35 is a little better technically, I really like how the 28 renders better and like the gap to 50 better.

    Best,

    Ray

  13. #63
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Vieri,

    The new zooms are really great and basically as good as the Nikon primes, although only 2.8 aperture.

    If you can deal with MF primes, you really should look at the Zeiss ZF lenses.

    I have the following kit for my D3:

    24-70/2.8
    70-200/2.8 VR
    1.7 TC
    28/2.0 Zeiss
    50/2.0 Macro Zeiss
    105/2.8 VR Macro or 100/2.0 Macro Zeiss (I own the Nikon but am being loaned the Zeiss this weekend, so we will see soon which one stays. Unfortunately for my wallet, I suspect the Zeiss will move in.)

    The ZF lenses do perform better even the new zooms, which is why they have a home in the kit.

    However, the majority of my shooting can be covered just carrying the 24-70, 70-200, 1.7 convertor, and an SB-800 flash. That actually works out to a very reasonable size kit.

    Best,

    Ray

  14. #64
    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Quote Originally Posted by harmsr View Post
    Vieri,

    The new zooms are really great and basically as good as the Nikon primes, although only 2.8 aperture.

    If you can deal with MF primes, you really should look at the Zeiss ZF lenses.

    I have the following kit for my D3:

    24-70/2.8
    70-200/2.8 VR
    1.7 TC
    28/2.0 Zeiss
    50/2.0 Macro Zeiss
    105/2.8 VR Macro or 100/2.0 Macro Zeiss (I own the Nikon but am being loaned the Zeiss this weekend, so we will see soon which one stays. Unfortunately for my wallet, I suspect the Zeiss will move in.)

    The ZF lenses do perform better even the new zooms, which is why they have a home in the kit.

    However, the majority of my shooting can be covered just carrying the 24-70, 70-200, 1.7 convertor, and an SB-800 flash. That actually works out to a very reasonable size kit.

    Best,

    Ray
    Hello Ray,

    indeed I can deal with MF primes - my being a Leica shooter is a good proof of that, I think - and indeed I have been keeping all these ZF lenses under close watch for quite a while now. However, I use my D3 - D300 gear either in the studio (agreed, MF would be fine here, and the ZF 85 looks oh so sweet!) or for low light shooting like concerts, events, and the like, and there AF + the 70-200 VR are a huge help; if not needed, I would just go with my Ms and Leica glass, I guess. Overall, I am very happy with my Nikon kit as it is; the ZF 100 macro looks great but is only a 1:2 while the Nikkor is 1:1, as good as the Nikon 85 f1.4 is the only ZF that I am seriously thinking about is the 85. But then again, I would have to drop AF which I need for events and the like - I know, I'll end up owning both...
    Vieri Bottazzini
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  15. #65
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Quote Originally Posted by vieri View Post
    Hello Guy, I am also a prime kinda guy, my Nikon kit as far as primes is:
    - 10.5 f2.8 fisheye;
    - 35 f2;
    - 50 f1.4;
    - 85 f1.4;
    - 105 f2 DC;
    - 105 f2.8 macro VR;
    - 180 f2.8;

    while zooms are:
    - 14-24 f2.8;
    - 70-200 f2.8 VR;

    However, since the 17-35 & 28-70, Nikon WA & standard zooms have been better than 2.8 primes in equivalent range (18, 20, 24, 28; the 35 f2 is a very tough one to beat IMHO); as the 14-24 got better than the 17-35 (and is better than the 14 f2.8 at 14mm) and the 24-70 better than the 28-70 - do your math... Of course, this doesn't count where and if speed is an issue, of where DOF control is important: 24-70 wouldn't be able to beat 35 f2 or 50 f1.8 - 1.4, or the fantastic 85 f1.4 in this case. As well, if one is willing to give up AF those Zeiss are looking very sweet, very likely (I didn't try them) sweeter than the new zooms.

    Other than that, I'd go with 14-24 + 24-70. Two lens, do it all - they are big, especially the 14-24 is a huge bugger, but if you have to lug around 4-5 lenses instead, the advantage is pretty much gone; not to mention, much less lens change, much less dust problems.

    Just my .02 of course.
    Well I like the Zeiss for the look too but your right I could go 2 zooms and call it a day. If I did I would get the 24-70 and sell the 17-35. I'm just going to go with this setup for awhile and see how it goes. I'm done at the moment buying gear. Still need to get the D3 and my 50 pre- asph for my M8. Overall I lost 4 Leica lenses in this pairing done. I will be left with a perfect kit though CV 12, Leica 21, Leica 28 Cron , 50 pre-asph and 75 cron all great lenses that preform very good.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  16. #66
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Here is a quick Zeiss 50 shot at 5.6 and 1/30 th ISO 400 . I am processing these files 18 inches wide for the client, there 100 meg files. This looks very nice on screen . Not a great shot but the quality is there.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  17. #67
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Woody - as per my post of page 1 of this thread, there has been a lot of sample variation and customer complaints (to vendors) with the 100 re: focusing stiffness.

    After I had a chat with Lloyd Chambers, he is going to add an addendum to is ZF collection review indicating such. His sample, as are many, was as smooth as silk.

    It was rumored to have been 'fixed' with new production runs, but the one I returned was a new run - and intolerable for anything but fine-tuning focus and/or slow and deliberate work.

    Talking to some other users with the same issue, it does NOT appear to get better or 'work in'. Just a note - One Finnish user mentioned that in winter his goes from stiff to a stick in cement.

    Optically the lens is superb in all aspects (save some CA) , but Zeiss/Cosina need to work on the mechanical/lubricant consistency.

  18. #68
    Senior Member deepdiver's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Shot from yesterday
    Nikon D3 + ZF 100/2 F2.8



    Andree

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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    MF is still on my radar button, no question. If i could have gone M8 and MF like Jack only and skip the Nikons i would but I do to much commercial work that the Nikons are to hard to avoid. I can't wait for the R10 that is January until they hit the streets and how much for cost of entry is a big question. But if it turns out to be a winner than I will sell the Nikon gear and get the R10. I love Leica gear but you ned to work too and pulling the DMR before the R10 was ready was bad for me and many others . I understand why but too big a gap in time
    i will bet you a $500 bottle of Scotch that leica WIL NOT have a new DSLR on the street by January next year...

  20. #70
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Afraid to take that bet Peter you maybe right. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Hey deepdiver, yet another beautiful image, and the dark brown indoor background adds a very special effect to the picture.
    How do you think the 2/100 Macro compares with the 1.4/85 for your excellent girl-pictures work, with regards to out of focus rendering, and "ease" of focusing ?
    /Steen

  22. #72
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Guy - I think I will make this a 'standard' site 'challenge test' what do you think?
    LOL

  23. #73
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Quote Originally Posted by bondo View Post
    Hey deepdiver, yet another beautiful image, and the dark brown indoor background adds a very special effect to the picture.
    How do you think the 2/100 Macro compares with the 1.4/85 for your excellent girl-pictures work, with regards to out of focus rendering, and "ease" of focusing ?
    /Steen
    Hi Bondo
    IMHO I prefer to use 85/1.4 for outdoor pictorial. It's easier to get focus of the subject's eye.
    I dunno why, for some reasons, yesterday i had a little bit problem with the focusing (at aperture F2 - Wide Open)
    The DOF of ZF 100/2 is very thin...
    therefore when I'm using ZF100/2 for outdoor pictorial, i Prefer using F2.8
    It's "safer" than F2

    Since this is my first time using 100/2 for outdoor pictorial and I haven't check my images from yesterday. i can't comments about the bokeh yet ^^
    Tonight i will check all my pictures from yesterday shots.
    Then I will post some of them
    Let us judge it together

    Andree

  24. #74
    Senior Member deepdiver's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Here are some shots that I took yesterday

    All of these pictures is 100% original, without any photoshop.
    Please be the judge for ZF 100/2 ^.^







    Andree

  25. #75
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Andree love to see the 85 1.4 Zeiss and the 100mm f2 in a head to head with bokeh
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  26. #76
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Andree,

    Lovely shots... especially that first one which really pops. That lens looks like a winner to me.

  27. #77
    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Looks fabulous, Andree.
    The woodden plate right behind the sitting girl is out of focus and rendered in a very nice smooth way, while the girl is in focus and isolated from the near background. Makes it very 3-dimensional.
    I know many have talked about the smooth rendering of the D3 camera in itself, but this lens also seems to be something extraordinary. I wonder if the ZF 1.4/85 could have done this, I guess you'd need a direct comparison to find out.
    I feel convinced I end up buying that lens at some point, but here in Denmark it is pretty expensive. I'll try to wait until I'm on a travel, or at least until after Photokina to see if Nikon comes up with some new fast AF-S primes also. Thanks for sharing, Andree, very nice captures indeed.

  28. #78
    Subscriber Member KurtKamka's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Very nice, Andree. One thing that I've noticed with both the zf 50/2 and 100/2 lenses is the richness of the colors. I find it very pleasing after spending quite a bit of time with Leica lenses. I also feel like the lenses (especially the ZF100) offer more clarity. Perhaps they provide more micro-contrast? My guess is that it must be similar with the zf 50/1.4 and 85/1.4.

    Kurt

  29. #79
    Subscriber Member KurtKamka's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    I mentioned the richness of Zeiss tones in a comment above. The d3 + zf50 and zf100 combination produce very nice browns. Here's an example with the zf100.

    Kurt

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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Well I agree Kurt and reason I went for the 3 Zeiss lenses . The 50 and 85 1.4 and the 28 f2 showed up today. I just know they have a look that I like and a lot like leica glass. Hopefully i will have the D3 in Carmel when I get there this week and i do have my three Zeiss lenses with me and the D300 so hopefully i can get some 85 mm shots with the D3. I also have all my M8 stuff plus our leica demo kits along. Ton of gear will be on hand for this workshop. Maybe too much which leads to buying stuff. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  31. #81
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    I'm shocked, Guy, I've always thought of you as thrifty and non-impulsive.

    It's fantastic that these Zeiss lenses are available for the Nikon system. For me, it makes shooting all the more fun and interesting.

  32. #82
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    I got the loaner (brand new) ZF100 on Friday and the 13mm microprism brightscreen today.

    So, I have been playing with the ZF100 in comparison to my Nikon 105 VR.

    First the screen makes focussing much easier and does interfere with the Autofocus at all.

    Both lenses are absolutely GREAT.

    I did find the ZF to focus very smoothly but also it was very heavily weighted. This was fine for the fine adjustment at close focus, but was much heavier than my other ZF lenses.

    Size advantage and construction go to the Zeiss.
    Flare resistance seemed basically equal.
    Ease of focusing would definitely go to the Nikon with its fast and accurate AF-S system.
    Having VR on a 100 or 105 in Macro use handheld really does improve the usability of the lens.
    A 1:1 ratio vs. the 1:2 ratio goes to the Nikon as it is really nice to get to full size.
    Color seems very comparable.
    IQ seems virtually identical at all apertures and distances.

    Both of these were shot at 3.2 aperture and 1/60th of a second. Please look at them first before cheating and checking the exif information. The ZF exif will show 2.8 but was really 3.2 as manual lenses only show full f-stop numbers and not halves.

    Give me your opinions on the difference.

  33. #83
    Super Moderator Cindy Flood's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    I think the top photo is sharper. I am looking at the dog's nose skin and the collar detail. Also, in the crop, there is a lash or hair in the eye that looks crisper in #1.

    Guy is going to want that macro lens back.

  34. #84
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Zeiss is first without looking and only because the full image looks a little more 3D
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  35. #85
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    There maybe a extremely small focus shift at play here but hard to tell . I think Cindy is right the top looks sharper on that hair but the bottom one looks sharper in the eye socket . Either way there so darn close it would come down to a coin flip. Try at 10 ft and lets see the bokeh. I'm not going to look and cheat
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Ok - Here are a couple at about 10ft.

    They are in the same lens order as the previous ones. First is 2.8 followed by 5.6 for each lens. Unfortunately, I did these on "A" priority vs. manual so the top two are slightly more exposed than the last two which may account for the slightly darker greens of the last two shots.

    Once again, these are very similiar.

    Best,

    Ray

  37. #87
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    I'm still guessing macro top and zeiss bottom. This time my guess is based on the fact the the model is a little more 3-D in the bottom two. I can't judge sharpness on these and bokeh looks similar.

  38. #88
    Senior Member deepdiver's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Hi guys
    Yesterday I also brought Zeiss 50/2 Macro with me.
    I also took some pictures using this lens.
    Here are some of them

    Nikon D3 + ZF 50/2 macro






    I Like the bokeh from this lens too ^.^ I think it's pleasing.

  39. #89
    Senior Member LCT's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Sure it is. Congrats Andree.

  40. #90
    Super Moderator Cindy Flood's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    deepdiver,
    Very nice. These photos have the pop and nice bokeh, too.

  41. #91
    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Interesting test shots, Ray.
    My first guess about the headshot was wrong !
    Then I copied the 2 cropped headshots to my harddisk and swapped quickly between them.
    At that point I realized that the focus plane of the Zeiss was behind the focus plane of the Nikkor in that image, putting different parts of the dogs face into sharp focus. (Try to swap quickly between the two cropped headshots to see what I mean).
    Then I looked at the next two full dog images and I think I see the same factor in play to some extent.
    In all the images the Zeiss focus plane seems to me to be behind the focus plane of the Nikkor.
    This makes it a bit complicated to make a final judgement.
    If I was to choose among them I think I would try to make an even more controlled test setup this time with a static subject and some more slowly changing lighting, if possible to find. And trying to hit exactly the same focus plane.
    Or you could just relax and say they are so close that there's no reason to sell the one to get the other.
    Besides the Nikkor has the advantages that it is 1:1 and has VR which comes in handy at some situations.
    I think I might just keep the Nikkor which obviously is tack sharp and performs very, very well too.
    Thanks for posting the test, Ray. Very informative, and good food for some more thoughts.
    ~ Steen

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Andree, again some very beautiful images. Well done as usual.
    ~ Steen

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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Quote Originally Posted by harmsr View Post
    Ok - Here are a couple at about 10ft.

    They are in the same lens order as the previous ones. First is 2.8 followed by 5.6 for each lens. Unfortunately, I did these on "A" priority vs. manual so the top two are slightly more exposed than the last two which may account for the slightly darker greens of the last two shots.

    Once again, these are very similiar.

    Best,

    Ray
    Ray,

    I noticed you didn't shoot any comparison shots at f/2.

    The Nikkor may do 1:1, but the ZF has a one stop advantage.

    Worth considering....

    David
    David Farkas
    Leica Store Miami

  44. #94
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    I still have the Zeiss as the top image
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Subscriber Member KurtKamka's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    The Zeiss tends to have more of circular (swirly) look to the overall background. Almost like a slight darkening or vignetting into the corners.

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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    I think you gave away the fact that the Zeiss are the top images. This test shows just how close the renderings have become with the best lenses. The higher contrast of the Zeiss shows up in the highlight in the dogs eye where it improves the picture. However in the full body shots the shadows are blocking up on the Zeiss. My question ....how close could you make these pictures if you tried to process them to a common "best" rendering. When I compare the Nikkor images to Leica glass...I tend to add additional contrast to the Nikon files. These are close without adjustments ..how close could they be with some expert conversions?

  47. #97
    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Folks, on the stiffness q. re. the 100/2 macro, there are variations in samples. Mine is perfect, but (was it robsteve?) sent his back for replacement.

    I believe that Zeiss and Leica have four grades of lens grease, with viscosities from light to heavy. My tech guy has set up some of thes lenses with what he calls the "fingernail" grease—this is for sports shooters here using Leica teles: they rest only the tip of one finger on the collar, with the nail in the groove, and follow focus that way. That's light.

    I am keeping mine as it is; slightly tighter than the 50/2 macro, but fine for me. cheers, kl

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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Kit- was moi. I actually returned my 'stick in concrete' ZF sample. Had I been able to try before buying in a shop, I'd still have one.

    As an FYI - saw a test like preceding (can't recall where) with lots of shots n' crops comparing the ZF vs. the old 105/2.5 AiS for non-macro work.

    You'd be hard pressed, if able, to tell them apart in terms of resolution. Can't recall on bokeh or CA. The 105/2.5 AiS went on my short list immediately after I saw the review.

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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Guys,

    The top shots in both sets are from the Nikon. Yes, I also noticed that the Zeiss was also very slightly rearward of the Nikon in focus plane everytime. However, that does not happen with my ZF 28/2 or my ZF 50/2. This lens may need a slight adjustment, as I believe my camera to be on.

    As David mentioned the ZF has a one stop advantage. However, The Nikon goes 1:1, has great AF, and VR. For the very minor if any real difference in IQ and at half the price, I'm going to keep the Nikon.

    Best,

    Ray

  50. #100
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 100mm

    Damn you stumped me
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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