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Thread: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

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    The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    Well for me anyway.
    As long as I'm on 1.5 crop I'm happy with the 70-200. I really like 300mm focal length as there are times when it just works. In my canon days I loved the 300 f4 series of lenses as a lightweight option. I still use the 300 equivalent a lot. I'm that sort of guy I guess I even do portraits on it.
    I've just done two jobs this week and an old pro, came in on one of the jobs job I was doing with his newly issued D3. He was in raptures about it and showed me stuff from his last shoot and then what he'd shot on the one he was with me on. Never had a pro do this to me in my long working life. This got me a thinking of Should I shouldn't I? That's when the lens issue appeared. Sometimes I need the 300 reach see attached shot. It would have been too far away on 200 (Full frame). What I would really like is 100-300 f4 with VR as in the 70-200 on the D300. Sigma's 120-300 f2.8 hasn't got stabilisation and I don't want the weight, as I'm shooting mainly press PR stuff these days.
    I often have to pull a grab shot during a days shoot and have little time to set up as the client wants everything shooting, but the timetable can't be interfered with. You've got a few minutes to get a shot of the RAF chopper and the lifeboat then we need you back here to do this. So you lug your whole outfit around all day. I'm drifting to another point here, but hey I've just spent hours and hours getting files out. Shoots seem to be being controlled by "Event organisers" who have a days schedule in which you must not interfere with what is going on, their schedule might slip by a minute and that will upset the whole day. I've heard this is also creeping into wedding photography. Of course they are the first to complain you didn't get shots and it's all your fault. "Why is there a wind turbine growing out of the lifeboat? "Because I couldn't swim out and move it would be my reply. So you could have moved the lifeboat, surely that would have been easier. Didn't see it on your ******* schedule, and if I shout at air sea rescue they ignore me, or do you think that can't hear me!!! I dare to answer back. I wouldn't dare mention I had to keep out of the video crews way as that would be such apoor excuse.
    Sorry Rant over, where was I? Oh yes, Where's my ******* 100-300 f4 VR lens?
    Anyway I feel a little better so thanks for the shoulder.
    David
    Last edited by DavidL; 1st July 2011 at 13:05.

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    Senior Member Lisa's Avatar
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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    I hear you. The one and only lens I use these days is Nikon's 18-200mm VR, which gives me the equivalent of 27-300mm on a 1.5 crop sensor in a relatively small, lightweight package. I wouldn't replace my D200 with a D3 if you gave it to me for free, because that perfect-for-me lens would no longer be perfect without that 1.5 factor sensor. However, a 27-300 lens on a full-frame camera would have to be *much* bigger and heavier. For me, size and weight are important when I'm carrying the camera around hiking all day.

    Lisa

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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    Well,
    The 80-700 VR works pretty well for this type of stuff for me, but you are right, it is big and heavy, but somehow on a D3 it seems better balanced in the hand.
    It could use an AF-S update though, which is something several folks are anticipating.
    -bob

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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    Fast 28mm prime. It wouldn't even have to be a reissue of the 28/1.4 -- a Nano-coated AF-S version of the 28/2 AI-S would be perfectly fine.

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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    Hi David
    I hope you're well
    Well, I almost agree . . . almost.
    Actually, the 70-300 AFS VR cheapo works wonders on the D3 - better (IMHO) than the 70-200 (less vignetting, sharper corners . . . . less sharp centre).
    I'd like an F4 constant lens as well, but with the 6400 ISO of the D3, the slightly slower lens is useable, the fact that it's cheap and light is a real bonus.

    I used one last night for a lot of candid shots at the end of a wedding party, and it did a grand job, focusing almost in the dark and producing excellent results.

    I think you might be looking a gift horse in the mouth

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    There's also the Sigma 100-300 f/4, which is a very good lens. No VR though. I wonder why not. Sigma is perfectly capable of adding that, and it would make that lens a no-brainer for lots of photographers.

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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    David,
    I understand your frustration in using 70-200 with a full frame camera. Apart from its limited range, it did not get high marks in DPreview, when tested with D3. I think its performance at the edges and corners is not as good as you'd expect from a pro lens. Of course this does not come to light (pun intended) with a 1.5-crop camera, as those areas are cropped.
    That's why I try to carry two cameras (one full frame, the other 1.5-crop) when on a trip, so that I get the best of two worlds (plus backbone pains).
    I noticed I'm using Sigma's 24-135 mm more and more these days. It's light and usually sufficient with a 1.5-crop factor.
    Best regards,
    Osman

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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi David
    I hope you're well
    Well, I almost agree . . . almost.
    Actually, the 70-300 AFS VR cheapo works wonders on the D3 - better (IMHO) than the 70-200 (less vignetting, sharper corners . . . . less sharp centre).
    I'd like an F4 constant lens as well, but with the 6400 ISO of the D3, the slightly slower lens is useable, the fact that it's cheap and light is a real bonus.

    I used one last night for a lot of candid shots at the end of a wedding party, and it did a grand job, focusing almost in the dark and producing excellent results.

    I think you might be looking a gift horse in the mouth
    Hi Jono
    Must have drifted pass you on my way from Skegness to Harwich but as I had an early start at Harwich the next day, plus I was hot and sticky, thought better of phoning you. I did feel a tremor in the force though.
    I am interested in the 70-300 and also an inkling for the new sigma 120-400 OS lens. Great on a D300 as I might be doing some animal snapping again. I have reunited with an old zoologist friend and have a lot of access to wild animals, if I want it.
    Nikon may be releasing some new stuff soon and I'm flat out at the minute.
    Here's an interesting little competition if you haven't come across it.
    http://www.nikon.com/about/news/2008/0605_npci_01.htm
    Great prizes.

    David

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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    The big hole you could fly a Air Bus through is the lack of a nano coated AFS 35/1.4.

    And update the AF on the 135/2 DC for God's sake.

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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    I am in complete agreement with Marc. The lack of a 35/1.4 or even a top notch 35/2 is pretty glaring. Nikon primes really need updating, especially when you contrast them to Canon...they have their 24/1.4L USM, 35/1.4L USM, 50/1.4 USM, 50/1.2L USM and 85/1.2L USM...all their primes are up to date in focusing, if not always optically. Nikon does not have an AFS prime until the 200mm f/2, other than the 60mm and 105mm micro lenses. I see that as a BIG hole.

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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    they probably just don't want to hurt Zeiss ZF sales
    a very considerate and admirable attitude

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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    Quote Originally Posted by bondo View Post
    they probably just don't want to hurt Zeiss ZF sales
    a very considerate and admirable attitude
    All they are doing is selling Canon cameras with that attitude.

    Frankly, it's one reason I moved from Nikon to Canon (along with the lack of full frame.) Nikon has solved the FF issue, but the fast Canon primes are still seductive.

    I want to sell off all my Canon gear ... but I am having a hard time parting with all these super fast aperture primes.

    Wouldn't kill Nikon to update the 85/1.4 with AFS and VR either. But a 35/1.4 for FF would be more important IMHO. I say FF because FF is where it's at even though I also have a D300. The D300 is just a stop-gap back-up to the D3 for now until Nikon delivers a Canon 5D killer. The 5D was a camera I loved to hate. Good sensor in a toy camera IMO.

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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post

    Wouldn't kill Nikon to update the 85/1.4 with AFS and VR either. But a 35/1.4 for FF would be more important IMHO. I say FF because FF is where it's at even though I also have a D300. The D300 is just a stop-gap back-up to the D3 for now until Nikon delivers a Canon 5D killer. The 5D was a camera I loved to hate. Good sensor in a toy camera IMO.
    HI There Marc
    Quite agree about the 85/1.4, and the 35.

    as for your 5D killer - it's due to be announced today as far as I can see: D700; D3 sensor in D300 body.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI There Marc
    Quite agree about the 85/1.4, and the 35.

    as for your 5D killer - it's due to be announced today as far as I can see: D700; D3 sensor in D300 body.
    D-700 ... Perfect. Hope they allow easy swapping of focusing screens. I want this for the ZF manual focus optics I've been collecting.

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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    Exactly, the easy swapping of focusing screens is a crucial point !
    By the way I think Nikon meets the press tomorrow, not today, at least here in Denmark.

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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    Quote Originally Posted by bondo View Post
    Exactly, the easy swapping of focusing screens is a crucial point !
    By the way I think Nikon meets the press tomorrow, not today, at least here in Denmark.
    I don't mind about focusing screens - I always found focusing aids distracted horribly from composition, and I really don't find it any issue manual focusing on the D3 . . . quite the contrary).

    I think you may be right about July 1st . . Digital Depot, the UK dealer who were talking about the 30th June now just say 'coming soon'

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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    These 95% viewfinder coverage rumors are depressing. I went to sleep last night (June 30th in Australia) thinking that all would have been revealed when I woke up. Now it's the morning of July 1st and still no news! To while away the time over the past few days I've been reading through old posts on the Medium Format forum. I rather wish I hadn't started that...

    (Later) My first thought, as soon as I posted this, was that it should have been in the Rumor season thread. But, looking at the last couple of posts, I see the reason for my error: this thread has turned into another rumor thread!
    Last edited by Jonathon Delacour; 30th June 2008 at 13:49.

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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    In his in-depth discussion of the new D700, Thom Hogan devotes a significant amount of space to discussing the big holes in the Nikon lens line up and his prognosis isn't good. The following small excerpt gives a sense of his argument and I think it's well worth reading all he has to say. (If you want to skip the stuff about the D700, scroll down towards the bottom of the page.) Regarding "the type of lenses that the FX crowd is still waiting for," he writes:

    Let me list just a few: any wide fast prime, 50mm f/1.4G AF-S, 85mm f/1.4G AF-S, 70-200mm VR enhancement, 200mm f/4G Micro-Nikkor, 80-400mm VR AF-S, 300mm f/4 VR AF-S, any lower-specified normal or telephoto zoom (e.g. 24-105mm f/4G and 80-200mm f/4G AF-S VR).

    It does seem strange to me that Nikon introduces a D700 and doesn't have the current lens set to go with it (either renewed primes or lower-specified normal/telephoto zooms or both). Until Nikon fixes that, the D700 isn't fully realized IMHO...

    Unfortunately, I don't see the lens situation improving very rapidly.

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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    All they are doing is selling Canon cameras with that attitude.

    Frankly, it's one reason I moved from Nikon to Canon (along with the lack of full frame.) Nikon has solved the FF issue, but the fast Canon primes are still seductive.

    I want to sell off all my Canon gear ... but I am having a hard time parting with all these super fast aperture primes.

    Wouldn't kill Nikon to update the 85/1.4 with AFS and VR either. But a 35/1.4 for FF would be more important IMHO. I say FF because FF is where it's at even though I also have a D300. The D300 is just a stop-gap back-up to the D3 for now until Nikon delivers a Canon 5D killer. The 5D was a camera I loved to hate. Good sensor in a toy camera IMO.
    Marc,
    You have hit the same speed-bump I keep running into at this point. While the new Nikon camera(s) are finally hitting stride for good high ISO, FF, fps speed, etc., I keep running into the same hole.....lack of lenses to match this new FF offering. I too look to dump the Canon gear, maybe part with my Leica stuff, and pick up something like the D700 to handle the sports stuff while building the MF kit. Went to look at what lenses to swap and into the hole I fell. No 35/1.4, no 24/1.4, no decent 50/1.2 or 1.4, no 85/1.2 nothing comfortable in the 300 range, etc. Pretty much what folks are mentioning in this thread. That, coupled with a poor 70-200 on the FF (based on the D3), and more expensive 400/2.8, plus an iffy 24-70/2.8 and it is not looking quite as utopic as I was hoping for.

    Not raining on the parade, as the D700 looks quite nice, but there is a disturbing lack of good glass to mate to it for the needs now being met by my Canon and Leica stuff. Hmmmm.....have to start rethinking the swap concept again.

    LJ

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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    Marc,
    You have hit the same speed-bump I keep running into at this point. While the new Nikon camera(s) are finally hitting stride for good high ISO, FF, fps speed, etc., I keep running into the same hole.....lack of lenses to match this new FF offering. I too look to dump the Canon gear, maybe part with my Leica stuff, and pick up something like the D700 to handle the sports stuff while building the MF kit. Went to look at what lenses to swap and into the hole I fell. No 35/1.4, no 24/1.4, no decent 50/1.2 or 1.4, no 85/1.2 nothing comfortable in the 300 range, etc. Pretty much what folks are mentioning in this thread. That, coupled with a poor 70-200 on the FF (based on the D3), and more expensive 400/2.8, plus an iffy 24-70/2.8 and it is not looking quite as utopic as I was hoping for.

    Not raining on the parade, as the D700 looks quite nice, but there is a disturbing lack of good glass to mate to it for the needs now being met by my Canon and Leica stuff. Hmmmm.....have to start rethinking the swap concept again.

    LJ
    Ditto.

    I want new primes for this camera. In the smaller camera body, I just can't deal with the 24-70/2.8 size. Plus it doesn't compete with the ZF primes. I really want a new 35, 50, & 85 that can compete with the ZF primes or come very close.

    Ray
    Last edited by harmsr; 1st July 2008 at 13:27.

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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    Just curious, what's iffy about the 24-70/2.8? I have this lens and it is absolutely superb. It's as good as the 28-90 f/2.8-4.5 ASPH in my mind, only with some more distortion at the wide end.

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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    Just curious, what's iffy about the 24-70/2.8? I have this lens and it is absolutely superb. It's as good as the 28-90 f/2.8-4.5 ASPH in my mind, only with some more distortion at the wide end.
    Yeah, sure beats the crap out of the Canon version.

    AFS 35/1.4G ASPH with floating element .... NOW!

    Let's all e-mail Ziess and DEMAND F mount versions of the Sony AF lenses

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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    Just curious, what's iffy about the 24-70/2.8? I have this lens and it is absolutely superb. It's as good as the 28-90 f/2.8-4.5 ASPH in my mind, only with some more distortion at the wide end.
    Stuart,
    It may just come down to the quality of the individual copies being looked at. My Canon 24-70 f2.8 is pretty decent, and does not exhibit some of the edge smearing and distortion that I saw through one Nikon version. Maybe I am jumping the gun on this one, but I was not as impressed as I thought I would be. On a crop sensor, they both look great. On the full frame, which is primarily what I shoot the 24-70 on, things are less forgiving. The Nikon 24-70 on the D300 looked outstanding, but I was less thrilled seeing it on the D3. Again, that may just have been a variant in the batch or whatever, but it left an impression.

    LJ

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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    Quote Originally Posted by harmsr View Post
    Ditto.

    I want new primes for this camera. In the smaller camera body, I just can't deal with the 24-70/2.8 size. Plus it doesn't compete with the ZF primes. I really want a new 35, 50, & 85 that can compete with the ZF primes or come very close.

    Ray
    Hi Ray
    I won't dispute the size, but I did do some comparisons with the two new nikon zooms (14-24 / 24-70) against the zeiss 25 f2.8, and the nikons won by such a huge margin that it wasn't even funny. . . . . . maybe it's not the case with the longer zeiss primes?

    LF, if you have an 'iffy' 24-70, I suggest you get it changed - mine isn't iffy!

    On the other hand, I do agree about the missing lenses - AFS fast primes, and high quality lightweight f4 zooms simply don't exist in the Nikon range . . . but it does seem to me that what one CAN say is that the Nikon fast wide zooms really are good (which is harder to say for Canon)

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    Jono,

    I'm not surprised vs. the ZF 25. That was the reason that I went with the 28, which is a much better lens IMHO.

    The ZF 35 is really hard to beat technically, but I was not a huge fan of the "bokeh".

    The 24-70 is on par or slightly better than the 50/1.4 ZF but falls way behind when you compare it to the 50/2.0 Macro.

    I really don't shoot wides. I'm much more for a wide standard, standard, and telephoto. My vision is really based on a 50 for a normal lens, while others see in 35. A 28 or 35 is wide for me, 50 is normal, and 85/90 is short telephoto. These are always my go to lenses.

    On the zoom, 24 is a little wide and 70 is a little short. So, I only end up using a small section of the zoom range. Even though I agree that the 24-70 Nikon is the best zoom that I ever used, the ZF 28/2.0 and ZF 50/2.0 lenses really beat it significantly in fine details, sharpness across the frame, and micro contrast.

    For example the files I have using the D3 / ZF 28/2.0 & 50/2.0 compare favorably to files from my M8 and Leica glass. However, files using the 24-70 just don't quite get there.

    Once you get up to the 85/1.4 ZF vs. Nikon or the 100/2.0 ZF vs. the 105 VR Nikon, I think the differences get very small. This is what gives me hope for new AF-S lenses, reformulated optics, and "N" coatings in the 35, 50, & 85 primes that I want.

    Best,

    Ray

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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    Ray,
    I just can't focus the Zeiss 85/1.4 to save my life. Maybe I need a different focusing screen, but I just could not do it as well as say a nocti on an M8.
    OTOH I tend to like wides unless birding, so the Nikon 14-24 is on my wishlist as is the Mamiya 55, and 45. Oh, and there are a few Digitar wides out there too. For Birding I use their 80-400, which I was hoping they would update to AF-S and VR-II
    I for sure will rot in the seventh level.
    -bob

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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    Jono,
    My 24-70 is SCHWEEEEET!
    LOVELY LENS
    -bob

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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Ray,
    I just can't focus the Zeiss 85/1.4 to save my life. Maybe I need a different focusing screen, but I just could not do it as well as say a nocti on an M8.
    OTOH I tend to like wides unless birding, so the Nikon 14-24 is on my wishlist as is the Mamiya 55, and 45. Oh, and there are a few Digitar wides out there too. For Birding I use their 80-400, which I was hoping they would update to AF-S and VR-II
    I for sure will rot in the seventh level.
    -bob
    Bob,

    I agree with you. I don't remember if it was on this thread or the D700 thread, but I made a comment about manual focus with the D3.

    I can manual focus fast and accurately on the D3 up to 50mm in focal length.

    The 85 & 100 ZF lenses were very hit and miss. I even did try a Brightscreen focussing screen, which helped but only for on center. As soon as I recomposed, the DOF was so narrow that I missed focus again. The Nikon 85 & 105 AF did a wonderful job of nailing focus on the D3 with its selectable AF points. I think that I also mentioned, I struggled with the ZF 85 when we were in Puerto Rico together.

    I should be receiving a loaner 45 & 55 Mamiya here in a few days also, as I want to decide which one I like better for use with the P30+ back. I'll post some comparison shots in the MF forum.

    Best,

    Ray

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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    Quote Originally Posted by harmsr View Post
    Bob,

    I agree with you. I don't remember if it was on this thread or the D700 thread, but I made a comment about manual focus with the D3.

    I can manual focus fast and accurately on the D3 up to 50mm in focal length.

    The 85 & 100 ZF lenses were very hit and miss. I even did try a Brightscreen focussing screen, which helped but only for on center. As soon as I recomposed, the DOF was so narrow that I missed focus again. The Nikon 85 & 105 AF did a wonderful job of nailing focus on the D3 with its selectable AF points. I think that I also mentioned, I struggled with the ZF 85 when we were in Puerto Rico together.

    I should be receiving a loaner 45 & 55 Mamiya here in a few days also, as I want to decide which one I like better for use with the P30+ back. I'll post some comparison shots in the MF forum.

    Best,

    Ray
    I couldn't even focus the ZF 50/2 on the D300 let alone the 100/2 ... until I got the Brightscreen Magnifier. Huge difference. I learned that with my DMR ... couldn't nail a 85 LUX @ f/1.4 to save my live until I got one of their mags for the R9. I'm training myself to peripherally see the focus confirmation in the Nikon viewfinder so I can shoot off center without focus/recomposing. Like anything manual, it's just a matter of practice, practice, practice.

    However, I don't try to fool myself with MF lenses. It's just a different way of shooting ... slower, more deliberate. it probably would be a whole other matter shooting with a manual focus Nikon ... a camera made for manual focus.

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Re: The big hole in Nikons lens line up

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    [snip] ... it probably would be a whole other matter shooting with a manual focus Nikon ... a camera made for manual focus.
    Exactly !
    They simply don't make real cameras anymore.
    When I was young, now let me see when was that ... oh gosh ...

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