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Thread: What is the impact of the D700 on used D3's?

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    What is the impact of the D700 on used D3's?

    I figure a lot of D3 owners might be considering the D700, so I am wondering what the impact will be on used D3 prices. I bought my D3 in April, and while I love it, my biggest (and only) complaint was the size and weight. The D700 solves those two complaints, and gives up only frame rate, integrated grip and a few % of the viewfinder coverage. Those may be very significant to some, but for me they are not a big deal. So if I sell the D3, how much do I lose? Will the D700 have immediate availability, or will it be impossible to get your hands on like the D3 was when it came out? While the spec sheet says that the D700 should be just like a smaller D3, is there any hands on report that confirms this?
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    Re: What is the impact of the D700 on used D3's?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    I figure a lot of D3 owners might be considering the D700, so I am wondering what the impact will be on used D3 prices. I bought my D3 in April, and while I love it, my biggest (and only) complaint was the size and weight. The D700 solves those two complaints, and gives up only frame rate, integrated grip and a few % of the viewfinder coverage. Those may be very significant to some, but for me they are not a big deal. So if I sell the D3, how much do I lose? Will the D700 have immediate availability, or will it be impossible to get your hands on like the D3 was when it came out? While the spec sheet says that the D700 should be just like a smaller D3, is there any hands on report that confirms this?
    Interesting point
    I'm in exactly the same situation, and have put it up in buy and sell (for a BIG loss).

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    Re: What is the impact of the D700 on used D3's?

    Your price was similar to what I thought mine might go for, but I have no idea. I hate being in this situation because I am not generally one who just buys and sells cameras quickly. I generally buy them and sell them after a good long use. For example, I just sold the DMR after 3 solid years of use, with only a 1500 dollar loss. A 30% loss in value over 3 solid years of use, thousands of images...not bad at all, particularly for a digital camera. But with the D700, it APPEARS (and I hope it is true) that the D700 solves the only problems I have with the D3, while at the same time adding an anti-dust feature and costing a lot less. But I am wary, particularly because the D3 really is so fantastic. It's design is superb, and I wonder if there are unseen compromises in the D700's design. Questions or concerns I have: The shutter has half the durability rating. Will the new viewfinder be as good and as bright? Is it just a loss in coverage, or will it be an inferior VF? Will the shutter lag and "instant response" feel of the D3 suffer with the lower frame rate? Does the lack of a separate menu for ISO, Qual and WB mess with the ergonomics of the camera?
    On the one hand, I would like to get the most for the D3 if I decide to sell it, but I am reluctant to do so until I can hold a D700 in my hands and confirm that it really is just a leaner D3...
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    Re: What is the impact of the D700 on used D3's?

    There's been a small dip in used D3 pricing as enthusiasts run for the D700. I expect that overall, used D3 prices will hold up well given that working pros will value (in no particular order) the better battery life, high capacity battery quick charger (costs more than $200 in itself), one piece construction (always feels more solid than body + grip), smaller size (compared with D700 body plus grip), interchangeable focus screen, higher shutter durability rating (300K vs 150K is a big difference if you shoot 10K on a two week assigment), and dual card slots (instant backup). As a hobbyist, I've sold my 5D and ordered a D700; but if I were a pro sports photog/photojournalist/wedding photographer, I'd shell out the extra money for a couple D3s.

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    Re: What is the impact of the D700 on used D3's?

    Amin --I think you will see more than just enthusiasts question the need for a D3. I know from my own experience that spending a full day shooting an assignment with one of the 24-70 or 70-200 zooms leaves you fatigued. In any case, if I planned on shooting with the grip, I would just keep the D3, but I know from using the D3 and from using DMR that I hardly ever use the secondary release. It takes too much time to change the grip back and forth...I just stay with the one. The battery life is a valid concern, but how long does the other battery last? The battery life of the D3 is absurd to the point of being great to have, but not necessarily useful. I have shot over 700 images over the course of a full day, and the battery was still 3/4 full. If the other battery has half the capacity, it would still be plenty. And of course, an extra battery is light and easy to bring along.

    As for construction, have you used an F6? It is built like a brick. I have a feeling that the D700 will be similarly bullet-proof. Jim Reed's account seems to indicate this as well.
    I guess my point is that it seems that the D700 is every bit the pro camera that the D3 is, just aimed at a different market segment. Instead of sports or wedding shooters who need high frame rates and huge battery and card capacity, it is aimed at those who need a more compact body, but can take the time to change a battery or card if necessary. It is more a camera for travel photographers, photo journalism (not war photography, but more normally paced pj work), stock and general photographic work.
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    Re: What is the impact of the D700 on used D3's?

    Point taken Stuart. However, when you're dealing with those big zooms, does a few hundred extra grams make a big difference? DPReview reports the weight (no battery) as 1240g for the D3, 995g for the D700 without the grip. Then if you decide that you do need the grip on the D700, here's the comparison (again from DPR):



    If you don't need the grip and the D700 build/battery life/frame rate are adequate, then you've still got the issues of double the shutter life rating and instant backup, both of which I'd think would be of practical value to most pros.

    Disclaimer: I've never handled an F6 or made a dollar off of a photo, so take my thoughts for what they're worth, or not worth as the case may be. Just putting them out there .

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    Amin

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    Re: What is the impact of the D700 on used D3's?

    Stuart, I think that there might be some users in your situation (and Jono's), but I also think that for many people (I for one) the D3's form factor works well and they will therefore keep their D3 (maybe adding a D700 or a D300 according to their need and shooting styles); as well, the inevitable loss caused by selling the D3 will probably convince many D3 users not to sell their cameras, unless they definitely need a smaller package and cannot live with the D3's size. More, as the illustration above shows, if one will add the vertical grip to the D700 the resulting camera will be bigger (and heavier?) than the D3; so then again, the D700 will appeal only to those D3 users that cannot live with the D3's form factor & will probably not add a vertical grip if not in extreme circumstances; how many D3 users are there, and of those how many are in your situation? I am not sure we will see the market flooded with D3s, though I surely hope so (I might get a second one just for kicks then! ), so I think prices will not drop much more than they would by natural (read: D700-less) causes...

    Just my .02 of course.
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    Re: What is the impact of the D700 on used D3's?

    Quote Originally Posted by vieri View Post
    Stuart, I think that there might be some users in your situation (and Jono's), but I also think that for many people (I for one) the D3's form factor works well and they will therefore keep their D3 (maybe adding a D700 or a D300 according to their need and shooting styles); as well, the inevitable loss caused by selling the D3 will probably convince many D3 users not to sell their cameras, unless they definitely need a smaller package and cannot live with the D3's size. More, as the illustration above shows, if one will add the vertical grip to the D700 the resulting camera will be bigger (and heavier?) than the D3; so then again, the D700 will appeal only to those D3 users that cannot live with the D3's form factor & will probably not add a vertical grip if not in extreme circumstances; how many D3 users are there, and of those how many are in your situation? I am not sure we will see the market flooded with D3s, though I surely hope so (I might get a second one just for kicks then! ), so I think prices will not drop much more than they would by natural (read: D700-less) causes...

    Just my .02 of course.
    '
    I think it is smart of Nikon to provide the grip and extra "juice" for the D700. But my guess is that most people will be willing to have less frames/second etc for the much less weight and size of the D700 over the D3. If not it seems to me that the D3 is the way better buy! JMHO and YMMV My other guess is that the "pro" or wealthy amateur will have both the D3X and the D700 at the end of the game. Many ,many choices here and the D700 makes a fabulous backup for the D3X. Again JMHO and YMMV

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    Re: What is the impact of the D700 on used D3's?

    Interesting comments all.
    I shoot a lot of vertical shots . . . but I like the way my elbow wedges into the side of the body using the normal release, so the idea of putting a grip on the D700 is completely out of range (I just wouldn't).
    Of course, the difference in weight is not that significant, and I certainly don't mind carrying the D3 . . . but - it LOOK very big, and as such it has a real effect on people when shooting candids, especially if you add a small lens.
    Mind you, I shan't bust a gut to sell mine, but I think Woody has it - I'm likely to end up with a D3x and a D700 . . . . unless they make a D900 version of the D3x!

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    Re: What is the impact of the D700 on used D3's?

    Quote Originally Posted by asabet View Post
    Point taken Stuart. However, when you're dealing with those big zooms, does a few hundred extra grams make a big difference? DPReview reports the weight (no battery) as 1240g for the D3, 995g for the D700 without the grip. Then if you decide that you do need the grip on the D700, here's the comparison (again from DPR):

    Well, yes, frankly, I do think it makes a difference. 245g is not a trivial amount when you are hoisting something up and down in front of your face all day. It's not just the weight though. The D3 takes up a lot more space in a bag, being so tall. I cannot fit it with the lens on in my Domke 803, whereas the F6 will fit fine. And as Jono points out, it SCREAMS, "pro photgrapher is taking your picture", and people tend to be skittish about it for that reason. It draws a lot of attention. For that reason, I don't tend to bring it along on the street. I don't mind doing that with the F6...just put a prime on there and while still substantial, it looks a lot less imposing.

    I agree that the extra battery and the grip can be useful for some people, but for me I can honestly say that I would never use it. As for the shutter actuations...well 150,000 is still a hell of a lot. And it's not like the camera explodes if you take 150,000 images. The shutter is RATED to last that long, but it may last longer. In the time in takes me to shoot that many photos, the D700 will probably be irrelevant. That's over 4000 rolls of film, for those still thinking in those terms.

    Anyway, it is obviously highly dependent on the photographer, but I keep thinking about the professional photographers I know, and few of them are shooting the D3's, D2's and 1Ds's...most of those I know use 5D's, 30D's, D300's and even Fuji DSLRs. Not all of them are minor local pros either...the only National Geographic photographer I know uses D200s...it is this sort of thing that makes me think that a lot of pros will really embrace the D700...to the exclusion of the D3.
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    Re: What is the impact of the D700 on used D3's?

    Stuart,
    I think I read on a forum that B&H had a display D700. You might want to give them a buzz and/or stop by and then some of your questions (like viewfinder) could get answered quickly.
    Last edited by Terry; 12th July 2008 at 17:30.

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    Re: What is the impact of the D700 on used D3's?

    Thanks Terry,

    I will check that out.
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    Re: What is the impact of the D700 on used D3's?

    I find this discussion a bit strange. Although I don't own a D3, if I had one, I wouldn't even consider selling it for the D700. There are differences, and although they aren't always significant for my use, things like the built in grip makes photographing much more fluent when changing between vertical and horizontal shots fast (No, it's not that comfortable with an add-on grip, and I think I've tried most). This is one of the big advantages with the S3 (hmmm.... S3, D3...... E-3, is there a message hidden somewhere here?), and one reason why it's possible to live with that camera in spite of the totally weird ergonomics in all other areas.

    Although there will probably be an initial dip, since some will apparently change for different reasons, I believe the prices will soon be back to normal. For those who really need the D3, there is no substitute.

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    Re: What is the impact of the D700 on used D3's?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    For those who really need the D3, there is no substitute.
    Well perhaps, but the group of people who "really need the D3" has changed dramatically. I think a huge proportion of people who bought the D3 bought it because it was the only full-frame Nikon, could shoot incredible high ISO and had extremely fast AF, full weather sealing, and big fat pixels. For most of them, the difference between 5fps and 9fps and 100% versus 95% VF coverage and a permanent bulky bottom grip were not a driving factor. I don't really remember people getting all excited about the built-in grip when the camera was released...it seems to me it was all about full-frame, ISO 25,600, live view, and the rear LCD...these are all identical in the D700.

    Anyway, this is just my take. But if anyone wants mine for a good price, it's yours! The D700 just looks like a much better solution to me.
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    Re: What is the impact of the D700 on used D3's?

    Each to their own but I can't help but think that moving from the D3 to the D700 is trading down... something that I've never done. I use my D3 in less than ideal conditions and take comfort in the fact that it's a pro body. Obviously, different folks have different needs but the D3 is the best DSLR I've ever owned and I've owned my fair share. My feeling is that Nikon got it right with this camera and it's going to take something pretty remarkable for me to part with it.

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    Re: What is the impact of the D700 on used D3's?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I find this discussion a bit strange. Although I don't own a D3, if I had one, I wouldn't even consider selling it for the D700. There are differences, and although they aren't always significant for my use, things like the built in grip makes photographing much more fluent when changing between vertical and horizontal shots fast (No, it's not that comfortable with an add-on grip, and I think I've tried most). This is one of the big advantages with the S3 (hmmm.... S3, D3...... E-3, is there a message hidden somewhere here?), and one reason why it's possible to live with that camera in spite of the totally weird ergonomics in all other areas.

    Although there will probably be an initial dip, since some will apparently change for different reasons, I believe the prices will soon be back to normal. For those who really need the D3, there is no substitute.
    Size & weight is an issue for many people including myself, specially when I need to carry more than one body. Then there's the convenience of built in flash, you'll miss it if you're used to having it. Besides it can always be used as a trigger for your Sb800/sb900s. This doesn't mean that I'm waiting to buy one, just a few points if I was going to choose one over the other. As for now my love affair with my S5s is in full swing and very passionate.

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    Re: What is the impact of the D700 on used D3's?

    Stuart,
    I'm exactly in your camp about what I need and don't. The features making their way from the D3 to the D700 are the ones I want. I went to B&H to play with the D3 a number of times and frankly it is too big for me to handle or want to carry around with the 24-70 attached, something I can handle on the D300/700. I think there are people trading both ways. While there will be many D3 users moving to the D700 I think there will be even more moving up from the D300 where they would have initially wanted a D3 but couldn't afford it at $3000 more than a D300.

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    Re: What is the impact of the D700 on used D3's?

    as to terry's remarks, i would expect the larger impact would be to the used D300 market

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    Re: What is the impact of the D700 on used D3's?

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    as to terry's remarks, i would expect the larger impact would be to the used D300 market
    Hi John
    it might be . . . but I suspect that, apart from just about now, it won't have much of an impact. There are reasons to have a D300 over a D700 (smaller lenses per equivalent focal length etc.) and reasons to have the D3 (sport, bigger battery and faster shutter).

    I think one of Nikon's triumphs is that each camera they produce seems to be the very best they can manage (without trying to dumb it down to avoid impacting sales of the higher models).

    I think it's why Canon have lost some market share - if they'd bought out a 5D with the build quality and ergonomics of the 1D models in the first place, there wouldn't be so many people shifting.

    Whether Stuart Terry and I would prefer a D700 is pretty insignificant - lots here like Vieri like the vertical grip and would prefer a D3 . . . added to which lots of people will want a second body.

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    Re: What is the impact of the D700 on used D3's?

    Ok, this is totally unrelated, but I just found out that Giorgetto Giugiaro, who designed the D3 and F6, also designed the Alfa Romeo 159, which I think is the most beautiful "normal" (i.e. not Aston Martin) car around. D3 versus D700 is like the sedan versus the sportwagon. The sportwagon holds more, but the sedan weighs less. I guess the difference is that if it was a car, I would go for the sportwagon!
    Family resemblance?

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    Re: What is the impact of the D700 on used D3's?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    Ok, this is totally unrelated, but I just found out that Giorgetto Giugiaro, who designed the D3 and F6, also designed the Alfa Romeo 159, which I think is the most beautiful "normal" (i.e. not Aston Martin) car around. D3 versus D700 is like the sedan versus the sportwagon. The sportwagon holds more, but the sedan weighs less. I guess the difference is that if it was a car, I would go for the sportwagon!
    Family resemblance?

    LOL - indeed I think there is a resemblance - did he also design the D700 though?

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    Re: What is the impact of the D700 on used D3's?

    I am not sure if he designed the D700...probably not, but certainly his influence is on it due to the other cameras he has designed over the years. But yes, I think you can definitely see the family resemblance. Look at the lines of the hood and compare it to the prism of the D3. Even the red brake calipers and the red Nikon slash look a bit similar!
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    Re: What is the impact of the D700 on used D3's?

    I believe Giugiaro has designed more or less all the Nikon pro models, starting with the F3. I'm not sure about the D700, but a consistent design throughout the line-up is very important these days, so he's probably done some work on that one as well.

    Still, I think that the F6 is his most successful camera design, from an aesthetical as well as from a functional point of view.

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