New D4 D800 rumour

[lowep]

hmm...looks like "lenses are in-body stabilized" really does mean "lenses are in-body stabilized"

:deadhorse:

as Marc points out what I was trying to get at was the possibility of in-lens stabilised solutions for MFDB

getting rid of the mirror would also be great.

my preference would be for a rangefinder solution ie a "texas mfdb" with in-lens stabilization, please.

 

[DDudenbostel]

Leica was never in the real pro business nor have their products been mainstream, albeit their lens design was always superior to others, so while transitioning into the digital age their "old" designs still can hold up somehow. But even there we see big improvements lately - M lenses, S lenses.

Nikon and Canon were always mainstream - over the past 4 - 5 decades at least. Minolta BTW was also never up to Canon or Nikon in terms of number of sold cameras.

I started my career in 1968 as a young photojournalist. At that time Leica and Nikon were basically the only game in the pro world. Leica really dominated the professional industry until sometime in the early 70's when Nikon took it's place. Even then Leica held on to a strong share for the balance of the decade. Canon never really came close to the popularity of Nikon not even the F1. Through the 70's I only knew two professionals that used Canon.

 

[MMPhoto]

Hi all,

I will welcome a new camera body from Nikon, at what price?

I spent most of my professional life looking true a large format ground glass, now for the last seven years DX and or FX. Sort of got use to it and enjoy it to a point, since these days most of the work is for on-line or at time printing size of final is most of the time 9 1/2" x 12". I would not invest in another mfdb since the d3X, now if they can give us from 30 to 40 mg oixel. along with fix focal length lens plus top of the line strobes. That will cover most of the jobs to shots.

Have a good day, Michel

 

[ptomsu]

I would not invest in another mfdb since the d3X, now if they can give us from 30 to 40 mg oixel. along with fix focal length lens plus top of the line strobes. That will cover most of the jobs to shots.

Have a good day, Michel

Pretty much my thoughts as well .....

 

[Paratom]

I still prefer the images I get with the M9 and S2 over those I get with the D700, and prefered those of the Hy6+Sinar54LV over those from the d3x.
Is it sensor or lenses or combination or lack of my post processing skills?.I dont know.

 

[ptomsu]

I still prefer the images I get with the M9 and S2 over those I get with the D700, and prefered those of the Hy6+Sinar54LV over those from the d3x.
Is it sensor or lenses or combination or lack of my post processing skills?.I dont know.

I am sure it is lenses, but also the relatively strong AA filters which are used so far in all APSC and FF DSLRs. I can tell the difference already from the E5 which is even smaller 43 sensor, but makes use of almost no AA filter - same as M9 and S2 and all the other MFDBs. And the difference is much more details and micro contrast although this is only a 43 12MP sensor.

So just imagine what could be achieved with a FF 36 MP sensor without AA filter and the latest pro glass form either Nikon or Canon! But not sure if they will go that direction.

 

[Tanegashima]

Sony's upcoming Alpha offerings (the A77 and the rumored FF A99) are set to radically alter the playing field price-wise and performance-wise. The A77 should be able to keep up with the Nikon D3s and outgun it in most respects.

Good luck

 

[etrigan63]

Looks like weak sauce in the high ISO department for the A77.

The rumor sites are currently all abuzz with leaked D800 specs. 36 mpx, ISO 100-6400 (Max 25,600) dual CF + SD card slots, weak (or removed) AA filter. $4K price tag. Ouch.

 

[photoSmart42]

The rumor sites are currently all abuzz with leaked D800 specs. 36 mpx, ISO 100-6400 (Max 25,600) dual CF + SD card slots, weak (or removed) AA filter. $4K price tag. Ouch.

Still a better deal than the Sigma SD1...

 

[ptomsu]

Looks like weak sauce in the high ISO department for the A77.

The rumor sites are currently all abuzz with leaked D800 specs. 36 mpx, ISO 100-6400 (Max 25,600) dual CF + SD card slots, weak (or removed) AA filter. $4K price tag. Ouch.

If the AA filter part is true thy have my money

 

[Nikkor AIS]

Judging from the results I got with my Nikkor AI-S glass on the Canon 5D2 (with adaptor) I have little worry that the Classic Nikkor AI-S glass will hold up on a 36 Mp sensor. THe D800 and Nikor Ai-S glass are going to be a perfect fit.


This notion of this sensor out resolving the Nikkor AI-S glass is hog wash. Total B.S . Iv been hearing that tripe since the camera's went from 4 to 8 than 12 MP 24 MP..OO

Ya right, Show me don't tell me.



Coming from a person who still shoots with both, digital and film. Film still holds "way" more detail than the digtial image. When film is printed with top end enlarging lenses to sizes like 6X4 feet.

Often you will see film get scanned and than compared with a digtial image.

I can tell/show you, that looking at grain is not the same thing as pixels.



Iv personally blown up slides from 4X5 internegatives and and B+W negative this big and the results where way better than what what I was able to get from the 5D2 images and my D3/D3s.




However, aspects of the image chain like critical focus and good long lens techniquee will come into play with this new Nikon D-800 body.

That being said, If the rumor is true, I will most definitlly be getting a D800.



As far as the high end Sony. One of my good pals has one, with some most excellent Zeiss/Minolta glass to go with it. Iv seen both of are images on his 24 inch high end screen and I am a huge believer in Nikon going the direction of in camera stabilization and higher Pixel count.

In fact just yesterday we where talking about getting an adaptor so I could try my Nikkor AI-S glass on his Sony. It would be interesting to see the results.

If Nikon went down the road of anti shake in the body. than perhaps than, they could get rid of the VR which to my eye does nothing good for bokeh and makes Nikkor's the slender barrel Nikkor's look fat and ugly.


Gregory

 

[Jan Brittenson]

I just tested my old Micro 105/2.8 AI on my brand new D7000 and at f/4 it's wicked sharp. It's indistinguishable in definition from the 50/1.4G at f/4. Pretty impressive, actually. The 80-400 VR is borderline - it's a fine performer on the D7000, but one can tell there's not that much more to be had from it. My wife's old 50/1.8E is good too, and it's nice compact little lens. From f/4 it's the same as the 50G.

Just like with Minolta, where some lenses can't keep up with the a900/a850, some Nikkors will and some won't keep up with a 24MP. But I think a lot of the classic AI-S glass will do just fine. (I used the 35/1.4 and 85/1.4 AI-S with an FM2n back in the early 90s and think both of those will do just fine as well.)

Nor is it a prime vs zoom thing. The ZA 24-70 is an excellent lens on my Sony a850. As is the Sony 70-200, and the rest. In fact, the problem with Sony isn'y that the lenses aren't up to snuff; there just isn't enough of them. Nikon doesn't have that particular problem. Nikon AI-S glass is just as good as Minolta, although obviously not all of it is great. But the great AI-S glass is... well... great, even by today's standards. I don't think a 24 or 35MP D800 is really going to be that hard on lenses. As long as you have the good stuff.

As for the D7000: it's is truly a slick machine. I'm really impressed. Can't wait to see what the D800 brings! If it's anything like the D7000 but without ruddy caucasian faces and some 30-odd MP then I'm all in.

 

[Stefan Steib]

http://nikonrumors.com/2011/11/19/ladies-and-gentleman-i-present-to-you-the-nikon-d800.aspx/

Greetings from Munich
Stefan

 

[Steen]

New D800 rumour


Thanks Stefan, the rumored specifications raise these major questions for me:


Image Quality ?

A pixel pitch of about 4.9 µm sounds challenging, personally I had hoped for a larger pixel pitch.
Some trivial Sony A77 natural sized dull natural light samples (and the RAW files made downloadable) might give the rest of us some sort of a hint, despite the format difference and the even smaller pixel pitch of the A77 (3.9 µm).
Oh, and of course that goes for some revealing Nikon D7000 natural size samples as well, with it's very relevant pixel pitch of 4.8 µm.


Handholdability ?

Will a 36 Mp D800 be more of a dedicated tripod- and / or studio-machine ?
What is the S2 owners' experience with regards to this - again, depite the substantial format difference, larger mirror etc. ?
Any ever so trivial, revealing natural size S2 illustrations will be appreciated.


The usual segmentation ?

D800 having "AF identical to D3/D700" sounds solid but at the same time disappointing if it means that the rumored Auto-Focus improvement has been reserved for the usual 'higher priced big and bulky' model with built-in vertical grip.
Segmentation that hinders combination of the best possible viewfinder and Image Quality with the smaller, more portable form factor is unbearably annoying.


D4 specs announcement ?

Hopefully the specifications of the D4 will be announced at the same time so that everybody can make the right choice from the beginning, in case the annoying segmentation goes on.
And hopefully the difference will be all about speed, not the usual "do you want portability, or max IQ and the best viewfinder" dilemma.


Removed anti-aliasing filter ?

If there will actually be a specific D800 version / model with the anti-aliasing filter removed, then I will most likely buy the camera (provided it is competitively priced).

 

[Lars]

Pixel pitch is the same as D7000, as you point out, so handholdability should be the same as with D7000 - assuming same CoC on the sensor. Translated to exposure time, pixel pitch ratio directly relates to exposure time. A pixel pitch 56% of that of D700 means slightly more than half the exposure time for handholdability compared to D700.


Considering suggested price point of $3900 I don't see this rumored model as a followup to D700, but rather a pro series followup to D3x which was priced too close to MF anyway (even though it sells really well). If Nikon heads the same direction with D4 as Canon with 1D X then those two cameras will nicely complement each other - one for action/sports/PJ, one for studio/landscape/fine art.

And I'm not even considering the video side of things - didnt even cross my mind as I wrote this comment.

 

[Stefan Steib]

@Steen

don´t expect technology to stand still.I think modern sensor technology is not anymore comparable on shere sensor pixel size. There is also this low electron collect capability , modern CMOS chips go down to even 1 electron readout sensitivity @30 fps whereas CCD´s (and the 80 Mix chip used in the actual backs have a pixel pitch of 5,2 microns ) do have a sensitivity limit at 5-6 electrons at about 11 fps.

I am pretty sure that this chip will look very good also at low light, given the fact that sony´s 3,9 micron are 58 % smaller in total collector space than this 4,9 micron (possible) new Nikon (probably also made by Sony anyway). But this is probably not what it was made for. There will also be a D4. And yes - with this resolution EVERY Camera will make sharper images if used on a tripod !

Lets see what they will announce in reality

Greetings from Munich
Stefan

 

[ptomsu]

Finally we seem to come closer to the D800! Can't wait to get one in my hands

For my purpose of DSLR this seems to be an ideal machine. Will see if the final product holds true.

Anyway if price is true, then we came now also with 30+ MP into a reasonable price region. Sure it will need high end (expensive) lenses to make that 30+ MP sing

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

If these rumours hold water, it seems to be a new class of camera; the best sensor in a more compact but very functional body. I never understood why the best sensor should only be available in a huge body. That can't be convenient for landscape photographers and it's absolutely not practical for travel.

I also have a feeling that there might not be a D400, at least not similar to the D300. For many, the D7000 has already taken its place, and for many others, the D800 will be a better replacement. For me, a combination of D800 and a V1 (and/or m43 caneras) seems ideal. Carrying a crop sensor camera that weighs more or less as much as a full frame one doesn't make sense except for telephoto reach, but with 30+ MP, there's plenty of cropping room, and on the other side, m43 and V1 have more reach with the same focal length anyway.

 

[ptomsu]

If these rumours hold water, it seems to be a new class of camera; the best sensor in a more compact but very functional body. I never understood why the best sensor should only be available in a huge body. That can't be convenient for landscape photographers and it's absolutely not practical for travel.

I also have a feeling that there might not be a D400, at least not similar to the D300. For many, the D7000 has already taken its place, and for many others, the D800 will be a better replacement. For me, a combination of D800 and a V1 (and/or m43 caneras) seems ideal. Carrying a crop sensor camera that weighs more or less as much as a full frame one doesn't make sense except for telephoto reach, but with 30+ MP, there's plenty of cropping room, and on the other side, m43 and V1 have more reach with the same focal length anyway.

Actually you are speaking exactly my mind!

And one should say never "never" !!!!

Tried recently the V1 and kit lenses and must say this is a really cool and capable small camera system. The results are so great for me and the handling of the system is so overwhelming compared to m43 (Pana & Olympus), that now my GH2 AND my EP§ are gone in favor of the V1.

Could not judge RAW files so far, but the JPEG output os so stunning (even much better than from Olympus) that I am thinking of using JPEG only in the future - at least for the type of high end P&S photography I bought the V1 for!

WRT D800 - I like the fact that the body size will be (hopefully) smaller. Even if it does not come with 36MP but some MP count in the range of 24MP it would be a perfect camera for me. And I do hope that Nikon makes the color output similar to the V1, because this is really a BIG step forward from former Nikon cameras.

 

[Jan Brittenson]

Once announced, where would be a good place to pre-order the D800?