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New D4 D800 rumour

Steen

Senior Subscriber Member
entry level FX camera ?


It seems to me that something is still missing.
What do you think there will be in between the D7000 and the firmly rumored "D800" in the new (year 2011 - 2012) generation of cameras ?

My guess would be at least a D300s DX successor (maybe called "D400") for birding, sports and action, e.g. with a high frame rate and a large buffer.

But what about an entry level FX sensor based camera ?
So far we have only seen real entry level cameras in the DX line.
For how long will we have to keep on regarding FX as a new technology reserved for high end cameras ?

Do you think the D300s DX successor ("D400") will make the jump up into the FX league for the same reason ?

I wish we could have at least a short term 2012 roadmap, just to avoid making the wrong choice from the beginning of this new generation of cameras.

And I wish we will see an entry level FX camera with a full frame sensor crammed into a small, basic, retro design camera in a form factor like an F3 or FM3A :angel:
If Leica can cram all the necessary full frame parts into an M sized body, Nikon can as well, with or without an added pentaprism viewfinder.



click for natural size


captured with Nikon D300 • AF-S Nikkor 1.4/50mm G • 1/13 sec. at f/5.6 ISO 200 • Capture NX
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Steen, If the rumor mills are correct, Ricoh (who now own the Pentax brand) will make that.

I hope that turns out to be true and I would very much like to have a FF mirrorless cam.

Nikon, I am afraid, will keep going with the "1" and will churn out many many models like they do with their coolpixes.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
Actually your link rose my interest ! Thanks for that ! ;-)
And because of this I read through some of his presentations on his website, which was ULTRA - INTERESTING !

I still think that many people are sleeping in a status between Analogue and Digital. The next years will show that there will be dramatic paradigm shifts that will plow under significant parts of the old industries whereas there will be the rise of a new, communication based digital product and services chain that will replace about anything as we know it today.

Everybody has to watch his back to be able to start running before this tsunami will hit him.

regards
Stefan
You mean like the paperless office and three-day work week? And don't forget that nuclear energy will electricity production so cheap it can be given away...:D
 

Lars

Active member
Steen, If the rumor mills are correct, Ricoh (who now own the Pentax brand) will make that.

I hope that turns out to be true and I would very much like to have a FF mirrorless cam.

Nikon, I am afraid, will keep going with the "1" and will churn out many many models like they do with their coolpixes.
Coolpix seems to be a completely different business unit than Nikon's DSLR unit, it's like it's a different company. :loco:

As Steen points out, if the D800 rumors are correct there will be a huge price level gap between D7000 and D800. I doubt that an entry level ($2K?) FX is in the works anytime soon, but perhaps Nikon will keep D700 production going to fill that niche. I would say a high end DX is more likely - true pro level build quality, not necessarily a higher pixel count.
 

Stefan Steib

Active member
Hi Shashin

well Agfas voice has already disappeared, Kodak may follow next year, lets see how long Fuji may withstand.

The places 1+2 on amounts of images on Flickr are shot with iPhone 4 and now 4s
The combined number of images on Facebook shot with mobile phones is probably around 70-80 % maybe more.

Young people don´t buy cameras anymore, they use their phones.

I was on the show ends party in Tarragona (Food festival) in September
and about 100 Pro Photographers when put to privat picture taking mode pulled out (myself included) their iPhones. NOT ONE SINGLE COMPACT!

The problem is not the competition around the Photoindustry - it comes from outside ! Next will be printers - who will want to print something if you could use Airplay from your iPhone 10 (30 Mpix) to a possible 4k or maybe even 8K 100" Plasma screen ?

And how will cameras compete that are not connected to the storage cloud ?

Just my 2 cents
Stefan
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Coolpix seems to be a completely different business unit than Nikon's DSLR unit, it's like it's a different company. :loco:
It is like Nikon USA is different than Nikon Japan even though they advertise the same stuff with the same celebrities, share the same logo and sell the same stuff. :shocked:
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Hi Shashin

well Agfas voice has already disappeared, Kodak may follow next year, lets see how long Fuji may withstand.

The places 1+2 on amounts of images on Flickr are shot with iPhone 4 and now 4s
The combined number of images on Facebook shot with mobile phones is probably around 70-80 % maybe more.

Young people don´t buy cameras anymore, they use their phones.

I was on the show ends party in Tarragona (Food festival) in September
and about 100 Pro Photographers when put to privat picture taking mode pulled out (myself included) their iPhones. NOT ONE SINGLE COMPACT!

The problem is not the competition around the Photoindustry - it comes from outside ! Next will be printers - who will want to print something if you could use Airplay from your iPhone 10 (30 Mpix) to a possible 4k or maybe even 8K 100" Plasma screen ?

And how will cameras compete that are not connected to the storage cloud ?

Just my 2 cents
Stefan
Actually I have to agree! Working myself in networking and lately in cloud, this is already the next revolution.

As you mention - why print if you can share whatever is in your mood on a 4k 100" screen and for this iPhone4s should already be ok, plus future version will outperform that even more!
 

Stefan Steib

Active member
And I think your images will look good on a large screen, imagine an OLED of the quality of samsungs galaxy the size of a big TV set. It´s not so far away.
The concept a static image may as well dissolve. You already use complimentary colors and differing structures and image orders to achieve an impression on your website. This is what all the photographers will do in the future for their whole portfolio and it´s presentation.

Nice website and Photos !

greetings from Munich
Stefan
 

Lars

Active member
Steen

we are on the way - it´s already coming down in price for 3840x2160 pixel:

http://www.tested.com/news/55-inch-4k-toshiba-tv-does-glasses-free-passive-3d/2832/

it´s "ONLY" 7999,-€
The founder for a startup I worked at in 1999 bought a Pioneer HD plasma TV that year or the year before (60 inch?), for about €30,000 or so. Pretty bad investment hehe. OTOH he also got himself a huge solid gold Breitling at that time, which obviously has been a great investment.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
iPhone has replaced the Instamatic, so what else is new? The new technology is nice for what it is, but it's also different. There are still people making oil paintings. That's obsolete technology for sure.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Hi Shashin

well Agfas voice has already disappeared, Kodak may follow next year, lets see how long Fuji may withstand.

The places 1+2 on amounts of images on Flickr are shot with iPhone 4 and now 4s
The combined number of images on Facebook shot with mobile phones is probably around 70-80 % maybe more.

Young people don´t buy cameras anymore, they use their phones.

I was on the show ends party in Tarragona (Food festival) in September
and about 100 Pro Photographers when put to privat picture taking mode pulled out (myself included) their iPhones. NOT ONE SINGLE COMPACT!

The problem is not the competition around the Photoindustry - it comes from outside ! Next will be printers - who will want to print something if you could use Airplay from your iPhone 10 (30 Mpix) to a possible 4k or maybe even 8K 100" Plasma screen ?

And how will cameras compete that are not connected to the storage cloud ?

Just my 2 cents
Stefan
I doubt anyone is going to argue with that Stefan. The mobile phone is fast becoming the greatest revolution in photography since the invention of the Brownie. It is so because smart phones are with people all the time, and "being there" is more than 1/2 the game. It is the single most powerful political and social networking tool going, and in that context, content trumps image quality every time.

Smart phones may be in their infancy right now, but that'll change rather rapidly ... check out the iPro lens system ... from none other than Schneider! Note the name ... iPro.

http://www.iprolens.com/

In fact, the whole proliferation of reasonably good digital cameras has had a profound effect on a number of traditional photographic industries. I occasionally shoot kids for former wedding clients now starting families ... and it is getting tougher and tougher to out do Mom & Dad with their family Canon Rebel and IS lens ... not because I am not an expert professional photographer, but because Mom or Dad are there when the best pictures happen, and their snaps aren't underexposed, blurry crap like they used to be years ago. They shoot, upload to Facebook and everyone and their Grandmother sees it instantly ... oohs and aahs abound.

Point is, photography is becoming a technocratic commodity ... so Pro and Advanced Enthusiast photographers must become MORE expert, and MORE creative, and MORE sensitive ... not necessarily MORE technical, unless it is the direct service of the former three aspects I mentioned.

The direction of photography, art or commercial, need not necessarily be connected to the outlet resources available to the masses, because we will rarely or never "be there" like the socially and politically oriented masses are. We must strive for more profound statements, to raise the levels of beauty, rarity, and emotionally powerful imagery to new levels and find a way to selectively share these images that segregates them from mass proliferation, or they will be lost in the cacophony of voices in the billions which are here today, and gone today.

-Marc
 

Steen

Senior Subscriber Member
presentation resolution, please ...

Steen, If the rumor mills are correct, Ricoh (who now own the Pentax brand) will make that.

I hope that turns out to be true and I would very much like to have a FF mirrorless cam.

Nikon, I am afraid, will keep going with the "1" and will churn out many many models like they do with their coolpixes.

Interesting, Vivek, I hadn't seen that Ricoh rumor.

You have said it before, mirrorless is the future, and I'm sure you are right about that.
No more camera-shake from mirror slaps and mechanical shutters.
But it looks like there will be at least one more generation of DSLRs from Nikon while the electronic viewfinder technology matures.

I like my F-mount lenses (from Nikon and Zeiss), manual focus as well as autofocus, and my choice of system always starts with the optics I want to use.
From there I choose an appropriate camera for those lenses, so yet another F-mount camera for me, and most likely a DSLR, which btw. I happen to like.

But I do not really want freaking 36 million pixels, I had hoped for about half of that. I'd rather have more Bit Depth (or: Color Depth) and Dynamic Range.

More capture resolution is not what I need.
What I really need is presentation resolution that matches the capture resolution !
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Well, Steen, the future is already here. Despite their shortcomings ( I am sure it will be bettered soon by many other brands), my (hacked) converted Panasonic GH-2 is a good century more advanced than the achromatic +.

As seen through the EVF, 320nm to 390nm reflected UV capture.


Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

I can even use it in very dim light and shoot hand held (albeit shaky) video in 24p cinema mode in UV (that is a good 7 stops less than the ambient light).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwSZZ1gTxK0&feature=endscreen&NR=1

On Nikon, yes people have been asking for a FM-2/3 type of digital cam for more than a good decade now. These folks are quite earnest and genuine. We do not want more coolpixes.
 

Stefan Steib

Active member
Hi Vivek

The little GH-2 is a pretty amazing camera. I am looking forward to get a Nex7 or maybe better a Nex5n (because of the larger pixels and the lower price) converted.
Do you use a mod firmware for video ? If so is the higher bitrate really as good as it is said ?

greetings from Munich
Stefan
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Stefan,

All my hacks or modifications are hardware related. Off the shelf GH-2 has 0% sensitivity in UV and no amount firmware would do anything to change that. Pretty much the same story with the NEX'.

Yes, the GH-2 is pretty amazing but the ones I use (modified- just for personal use- to be clear!) take them to being very sophisticated tools.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
To be very plain- any potential customers of any hardware hack/conversions anywhere is strongly advised to question the knowledge and the capabilities of such outfits before venturing into this.

There are good ones and there are absolute moonshine vendors. Watch your wallets!
 
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Stefan Steib

Active member
Well Vivek

Mr. Dieter Maccario has been working for the Canon Factory repair center for 14 years, he is the one that keeps the original guarantees intact and I have my Canon 5D MK2 converted since 1,5 years now - perfect much better than before + 20 % resolution (antialiasing removed), UV and IR open, his Bluegreen filter (for normal color) is better than the canon original. His UV and IR filters are also both very good, it´s not cheap, but worth every penny. He works for astronomers, universities and big companies here in Germany and worldwide.

I know there are some funny people offering this on Ebay and other places, but this is a whole different story.

So I suppose he is the ones you refere of as "good ones". :)

Greetings from Munich
Stefan
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Stefan,

With all due respect, I post something here as a contributor and with no financial strings attached.

It is not my intention to engage in a dialogue with you who has other motives.

I would ask you for your understanding and request you to refrain from attempting to draw any conclusions on your business- pro or against.

Thanks a bunch!:)
 
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