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Thread: How about a 50 MP mirrorless from Nikon...

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    How about a 50 MP mirrorless from Nikon...

    If the "1" sensor is as revolutionary as Nikon says it is and does what they say it will do, it means that Nikon would be able to make a DSLR without the "R", no mirror whatsoever but still phase detect AF. A "1" sensor enlarged to FX format would be slightly above 50 MP if my mathematics are correct. No mirror box and no prism would mean a camera that could be made lighter and more compact than current DSLRs, even when keeping the current the current lens/sensor distance.

    Obviously, there would long term be a new family of cameras, more compact and maybe similar to NEX or m4/3, but I would be surprised if Nikon doesn't think along those lines, since they have developed the technology that enables it. And if they do, the 2.7x crop factor of the "1" makes a lot of sense, since a larger sensor camera would be too close to whatever comes in the future.

    So the truth is maybe that the "1" is what it is, not so much to protect Nikon's current crop of DSLRs, but to fit better into a landscape where those cameras are supplemented or replaced by mirrorless cameras designed for the enthusiast and professional markets.

    Just a thought...

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    Re: How about a 50 MP mirrorless from Nikon...

    All they have to do, is keep making posts like this over on FB, and the won't have to worry about it much longer...

    How much bigger can they make the hole in their foot??
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    Member RomanJohnston's Avatar
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    Re: How about a 50 MP mirrorless from Nikon...

    Thanks but no thanks. If I want to go 40-60MP, I will fork over the 30-35,000 for a MF system. (body, back and lenses)

    Its bad enough that they are considering making full frame sensors over 24MP. I can only imagine the artifacts and the capacity to out resolve the lenses available and how that will effect the quality of output.


    Roman

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: How about a 50 MP mirrorless from Nikon...

    Quote Originally Posted by RomanJohnston View Post
    Thanks but no thanks. If I want to go 40-60MP, I will fork over the 30-35,000 for a MF system. (body, back and lenses)

    Its bad enough that they are considering making full frame sensors over 24MP. I can only imagine the artifacts and the capacity to out resolve the lenses available and how that will effect the quality of output.


    Roman
    The pixel density is already a reality with cameras like the Sony A77 and Panasonic GH2. The question is if Nikon anticipated this possibility when they designed new lenses like the current f/1.4 primes. Sony will be going there for sure, and then the question is if the others (Canon and Nikon) can afford not to follow.

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    Re: How about a 50 MP mirrorless from Nikon...

    on the megapixels...i think the a77 sensor would scale just over 50mp and the 1 would scale to over 70mp.

    i'm not sure i'd want to be slinging around that many pixels on my computer. 22mp 16bit files out of my leaf take enough horsepower as is.

    i'd love to be able to replace my non-MFD photography with a high end mirrorless...fuji x100 size, but in d700 rather than d7000 level body...and small fast-ish 35 and 105 equivalent lenses (so like...a 24/2 and 70/2).
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    Re: How about a 50 MP mirrorless from Nikon...

    Jurgen,

    I think that new techniques in software will enable very high quality results from such a system. By the time it is offered, we will have accepted the intermediate steps that currently appear to be the paradoxical lower quality results. We actually use light sensors that measure how much light is received through a filter. We may expect a new approach, not necessarily along the lines of the Foveon sensor, once the demand exists.

    The problem like that of our current economic depression, is one of demand. Who will seek such a complex sensor? I suspect iot will require something like robotic vision requirements, spying or even human prostethics that will spur on such devices.

    We appear quite happy at the moment with HDTV which only requires 2MP! Even doubling and doubling again still leaves us at 8MP. We easily exceed the minimum acceptable resolutions in practical terms.

    The whole philosphy around m4/3 system is that it is as compact as can be, while retaining ergonomic practicality and acceptable results. Smaller sensors may appeal from a marketing point of view and those of us who use c mount lenses, but the gain in compactness is nil, in practical terms while current, but not future, sensors show their limitations.

    Looking at the prices being charged by Nikon and Pentax for small sensor interchangeable lens compacts, there seem to be expensive challenges in further minituarization, for no qaulity or utility gain.

    Despite the higher quality, medium and larger format sensors will never be popular outside certain restricted circles. Why bother with such large sensors that will impose heat constraints upon processors?

    I actually agree that it will happen! But I and most others will not be demanding it?

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    Re: How about a 50 MP mirrorless from Nikon...

    It will be interesting to see what happens, but I have to agree that the lenses are going to be a big problem. I had a D3, and even the 24-70mm f/2.8 was soft in the corners near wide open. The 50/1.4 AFD was like mush. (I know it has been updated). And these are some of the better lenses...they would have to equal or surpass some of the best lenses currently made (Leica ASPH lenses and so on) in order to resolve 50mp. I am not sure they can do that, at least not economically.
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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: How about a 50 MP mirrorless from Nikon...

    Bodies are consumables, but lenses are investments. They last like forever, right?

    I'm convinced that Nikon will be more than happy to develop another set of "forever" lenses for us, with Hyper Nanon Coating and glass made from red kryptonite found on Mars by the yet to be announced Japanese/Mongol expedition to the planet. All this will be ours for life (or the 35mm equivalent thereof), and the only requirement is a temporary emptying of our bank accounts and possibly a tiny, little mortgage on whatever property we have left after financing the camera bodies
    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 30th September 2011 at 15:49.

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: How about a 50 MP mirrorless from Nikon...

    Well they better start soon. Like Stuart, I quickly found that my D3x out paced most of my Nikon pro glass with the exception of the PCe's, 14-24 and latest primes. I'm shooting medium format these days but I'd rebuild my Nikon outfit if they came out with innovations in DR, 16bit imaging and continued their amazing ISO support.

    When I compare the results from my medium format gear to even my D3x & 70-200 VR II landscape shots the difference is startling and not just because of resolution/AA filters. That isn't meant to be a slight on either the D3x (which I loved) or the 70-200 VR II (ditto) but the lens / body combo really pushed the ability of the Nikon system to deliver great 24mp images. Even at 24mp you need great glass, perfect technique and rock solid mounting to get what you've paid for. At 50mp it would be even worse and I suspect disappoint a lot of folks who might not appreciate just what these resolutions require from you.

    Give me 18 or 24mp, 16bit color, 14 stop DR and all of the Nikon system goodness and I'd be cracking open my wallet again. 50mp on the 35mm platform at 12-14bit, AA filters, and existing glass - my wallet stays shut.

    Quote Originally Posted by RomanJohnston View Post
    Thanks but no thanks. If I want to go 40-60MP, I will fork over the 30-35,000 for a MF system. (body, back and lenses)

    Its bad enough that they are considering making full frame sensors over 24MP. I can only imagine the artifacts and the capacity to out resolve the lenses available and how that will effect the quality of output.

    Roman
    Roman, I couldn't agree more!
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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: How about a 50 MP mirrorless from Nikon...

    Maybe 50MP would be too much but I think that 35 - 40 MP would be kind of the reasonable border for Nikon FF as well as for Canon. Sure, this would require to use only the top pro grade lenses from both. And I think here is the problem, because many try to use older (much older) glass, which is far from being up to this job and even worse they adopt lenses which were never ever designed for Nikon and then are surprised why this is not delivering.

    I would be happy about any FF DSLR or Mirrorless from both Nikon and Canon which allows (and is designed for) their standard mount.

    Actually I am no longer vendor agnostic, so which one delivers first will get my money (assuming the design is not total crap ).

    PS: the definition of lifetime investment has to be put into context for everyones needs and desires. For me only my M glass is lifetime investment (actually also my film M cameras, with digital M this changed). All other lenses and systems I have switched multiple times in my life and did never regret I did not keep what I had, because usually when switching back a much better (newer) design of a lens was available. So my longterm planning is maximum 3-4 years.

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