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Thread: D800

  1. #151
    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    D800


    Thanks, Vivek, it looks really nice indeed !

    But 16 Mp on Four-Thirds format, 3.8 m per pixel isn't quite what I want, you know I'm such a chicken with regards to pixel pitch

    So I'm fully decided that my next camera will have a larger sensor than the APS-C I'm shooting now, otherwise I'll just stay where I am.

    My D300 actually works so well for me, it's only my viewfinder obsession that makes me want to upgrade

  2. #152
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    Re: D800


  3. #153
    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    D800


    graysofwestminster.co.uk

    Simon Stafford about D800 and D800E

    - the medium format reference - the lenses to use - the D700 relations - the E version - the D4 relations - diffraction ...

  4. #154
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    Re: D800

    Quote Originally Posted by pophoto View Post
    Interestingly the 24-120 f4 is included - is it that good?

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  5. #155
    Member jlancasterd's Avatar
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    Re: D800

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Interestingly the 24-120 f4 is included - is it that good?
    I've had one as my 'standard' lens on a D700 for the past 18 months and wouldn't want to be without it. It's a perfect travel lens - although I have both the 16-35 and 70-200, I left them at home when travelling around Switzerland last September, and in northern Norway a couple of weeks ago and found that the 24-120 did everything I wanted. I get good, sharp, high contrast images in most conditions. The results are very good even wide open at f4 and ISO 25,600.

    I do, however, use the lens profile correction tab in Lightroom when I process images.
    John L Dobson
    Editor, Ffestiniog Railway Magazine

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    24-120mm f/4 G VR

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post

    Interestingly the 24-120 f4 is included - is it that good?

    I have no personal experience with the 24-120mm VR zoom.

    But don't mix it up with the older VR version (year 2003 - 2010) - or the even older AF-D version (year 1996 - 2002) for that matter.

    The older variable max aperture AF-S Nikkor 24-120mm f/3.5-5.6 G ED-IF VR was indeed considered a dog by a lot of users.

    In summer 2010 it was replaced by the AF-S Nikkor 24-120mm f/4 G ED VR (fixed max aperture).

    The new VR version is said to be much sharper than its predecessor, but both are said to show a lot of distortion.

    I have never owned or even tried any of them (I rarely use zooms), only referring the internet gossip here.

  7. #157
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    Re: D800

    Hey Boys and Girls!
    I've just revisited the D800 and D800E Samples page of the n'th time.
    I still cannot make out the difference the 'E' will provide me as far as extra details is concerned. Can someone please explain to me what they can SEE and what I'm NOT seeing.

    Main shots in question the ones with the models in, I also tried hard to study the ones with green mossy trees. The one shot that confuses me the most is the one with the autumn leaves from the D800E which isn't visibly sharp at all!
    The Japanese Kimono model shot which is supposed to show the handling or resolve of Moire in question, does a great job, unfortunately the face and hair is difficult to judge because of make-up and dark hair lost in darks with subtle highlights, when compared to the sharpness seen in the D800 model samples with the 'model and cat' and 'model with wedding veil.'

    Prerequisite:
    "Pixel peeping a must!"

    Nikon | Imaging Products | Sample Images - Nikon D800/D800E
    Nikon | Imaging Products | Sample Images - Nikon D800/D800E

    Thanks
    Po

  8. #158
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    Re: D800

    Quote Originally Posted by pophoto View Post
    Hey Boys and Girls!
    I've just revisited the D800 and D800E Samples page of the n'th time.
    I still cannot make out the difference the 'E' will provide me as far as extra details is concerned. Can someone please explain to me what they can SEE and what I'm NOT seeing.

    Main shots in question the ones with the models in, I also tried hard to study the ones with green mossy trees. The one shot that confuses me the most is the one with the autumn leaves from the D800E which isn't visibly sharp at all!
    The Japanese Kimono model shot which is supposed to show the handling or resolve of Moire in question, does a great job, unfortunately the face and hair is difficult to judge because of make-up and dark hair lost in darks with subtle highlights, when compared to the sharpness seen in the D800 model samples with the 'model and cat' and 'model with wedding veil.'

    Prerequisite:
    "Pixel peeping a must!"

    Nikon | Imaging Products | Sample Images - Nikon D800/D800E
    Nikon | Imaging Products | Sample Images - Nikon D800/D800E

    Thanks
    Po
    Hi Po,

    I have been to a Nikon NPS event here in the Netherlands where the D4 and both the D800s were introduced. A couple of photos were shown with regard to the differences between the D800 and the D800E. Mind you, these photos were not printed ones, but shown via a projector.

    What I noticed is:
    * more depth (call it a more three dimentional look of the photo). This is quite noticeable and IMO very attractive;
    * a bit more clarity;
    * a bit more detail at 100%.

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers,
    Remko

  9. #159
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    Re: D800

    I am seeing two different images taken under very different condition of very different subjects. This means that no one is really going to notice which model took which image. The only comparison to show the difference would be two images of the same scene taken at the same time. but even then I don't know if I would be worrying about whether the camera had an AA filter or not as far as which model I would buy goes.

  10. #160
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: D800

    I think there should be no question for MF users who are used to Non AA MF Backs (and probably the same moiree issues) what to buy if you are planning to get an D800 - the E version will most likely behave the same way as my converted 5DMK2 - more Highlight detail and more shadow structure. Besides a net maybe 20 % gain in sharpness. I paid 500 for this extra and it was worth every cent I paid.
    So I guess the 300 $ more for th D800E are a bargain .
    Use capture One, do a local mask if neccessary and remove most of the minor stuff in post, if its larger you will see it on the camera display when you control it. Once you know about you will just take a look at 100 % and if this is major just change the distance a bit or the angle or the focus plane or stop down a bit, there are many choices.

    Regards
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  11. #161
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    Re: D800

    Quote Originally Posted by Remko View Post
    Hi Po,

    I have been to a Nikon NPS event here in the Netherlands where the D4 and both the D800s were introduced. A couple of photos were shown with regard to the differences between the D800 and the D800E. Mind you, these photos were not printed ones, but shown via a projector.

    What I noticed is:
    * more depth (call it a more three dimentional look of the photo). This is quite noticeable and IMO very attractive;
    * a bit more clarity;
    * a bit more detail at 100%.

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers,
    Remko
    Thank you Remko. Yes, I think the majority are having to base their opinion from the Nikon official website samples, so your opinion is very helpful. That is if you are saying the 'E' version is more attractive

    Stefan: My original opinion was based of this thinking model with DMF in mind. I also use C1, but I am finding LR4 to be very good.

    Shashin: Yes, unfortunately these direct comparisons will come after release, from other reviewers. From samples alone, I felt either would do and choose the cheaper of the two. Remko's experience might add a bit of light!

  12. #162
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: D800

    Folks,

    AA filter or not? This question is clearly answered for anyone who has shot without AA filter or at least with only weak AA filter. Once you have been through that exercise (should I call it eye opening pleasure) you will never again start asking.

    So for me a camera with weak or no AA filter clearly wins. This is a NO BRAINER!!!!

    And to add - I never had any issues with Moire on cameras without AA filter!

  13. #163
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: D800

    I'll probably buy both in the end. But I'm sitting on a 60mpx tech cam system so I really don't need the E model and for what the D800 needs are for fashion , people and events where having the AA might be of help. Although I shot 1k frames in studio the other day of three models and many changes of cloths and no Moire but I was dealing with material that should not really cause a issue either. It's going to come to for many shooters on what's in the other bag of gear.

    Now if I did not have the tech cam than E model all the way and deal with it. Thing is I hate AA filters too but it will depend on what gear you have and what subject your dealing with

    Now from experience and I tested this the smaller the microns in MF the less Moire issues. This is 4.9 microns I believe and the IQ 180 is 5.2
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    D800 - pixel binning ?


    Quoting from top of this page # 2:

    imaging.nikon.com - The D800/D800E

    "There are three image sizes large, medium, and small and you can choose the one that suits your needs.
    In FX format, the large size enables shooting with about 36.2 megapixels, while about 20.3 megapixels are used for the medium size, or maybe if you're taking snapshots you'll find you can get by with the small size, which is about 9 megapixels.
    Both the medium and small settings use data from the full extent of the 36.3-megapixel sensor optimally processed to a smaller size using EXPEED 3.

    Therefore, we suggest selecting medium or small for normal use and choosing large only for, say, group portraits or very high resolution landscape shots."


    Data from the full extent of the 36.3-megapixel sensor optimally processed to about 9 megapixels ...
    Doesn't that smell a bit like a cluster of 4 pixels combined into a single pixel, i.e. pixel binning ?

    On the other hand I suppose that for marketing reasons they would have used the term pixel binning if it really was that ...

  15. #165
    Subscriber Member weinschela's Avatar
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    Re: D800

    Anyone know whether the D800 user manual is available on line?
    Alan

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  16. #166
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    Re: D800

    Not yet, but there is a technical guide available.

    http://www.nikonusa.com/en_US/o/Y6wr...alGuide_En.pdf

    Pretty much says what Jack & Guy teach in their medium format classes for getting sharp photos.
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    Re: D800

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Folks,

    AA filter or not? This question is clearly answered for anyone who has shot without AA filter or at least with only weak AA filter. Once you have been through that exercise (should I call it eye opening pleasure) you will never again start asking.

    So for me a camera with weak or no AA filter clearly wins. This is a NO BRAINER!!!!

    And to add - I never had any issues with Moire on cameras without AA filter!
    MF, and M9 certainly. I was asking because of the examples shown on the Nikon website, which to me didn't show this as 'clearly answered.' To be honest, their JPEG examples didn't show this me at all. In fact, it even crossed my mind, that this offering, based off their sample images, that I should save a few hundred because how close the image differences were if any. Remko, explained he had saw otherwise, which was 'clear' to him!

    Having seen the images for myself with the M9, it was 'clearly' sharper with its lenses to other 35mm that I had. MF I have film to compare which isn't the same at all, and of course images here.

  18. #168
    Senior Member Antonio Chagin's Avatar
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    Re: D800

    These are 2 files from a Russian site, one D800 iso 100 and one D800E iso 100. Very similar conditions of lighting. You can see the real difference between details and highlight color pattern.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10120389/_3081766.NEF

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10120389/DSC_4683.NEF

  19. #169
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    Re: D800

    Antonio,

    I just finished looking at them under LR4 and I have the following comments:

    1. Although the shots were done with the same lens, the lighting conditions and exposure values differed between the two cameras. The shots were at two different apertures as well.

    2. The targets, while mostly the same, are laid out slightly differently, which makes an apples-to-apples comparison a bit more difficult.

    For example: the D800 image clearly shows a ding on the lens bezel of the Canon P&S camera. The ding is not visible on the D800E image. The lack of consistency between the two images makes it difficult to pin down the cause. However, the D800E image shows far more texture detail in the colored surface of the camera.
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    Re: D800

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    Antonio,

    I just finished looking at them under LR4 and I have the following comments:

    1. Although the shots were done with the same lens, the lighting conditions and exposure values differed between the two cameras. The shots were at two different apertures as well.

    2. The targets, while mostly the same, are laid out slightly differently, which makes an apples-to-apples comparison a bit more difficult.

    For example: the D800 image clearly shows a ding on the lens bezel of the Canon P&S camera. The ding is not visible on the D800E image. The lack of consistency between the two images makes it difficult to pin down the cause. However, the D800E image shows far more texture detail in the colored surface of the camera.
    I completely agree with your findings!
    In fact it's very confusing to compare with these two images, and rather unpleasant subject matter even for a test for me to stare at!
    I hope better tests will be posted soon from sites.

  21. #171
    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    D800


    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post

    (...) However, the D800E image shows far more texture detail in the colored surface of the camera.

    Or could it be a highlight color pattern (rather than texture detail) like Antonio suggests ?

    In that case it looks scary.

    Strange that Nikon doesn't offer some more controlled comparisons before the first batch hits the shelves.

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    Re: D800

    It looks like both images from Antonio were from the D800, although LR does say one is from the D800E!
    Here is the Polish site from which the RAWs are referenced:
    Roadshow Nikon D4 I D800

    *Updated* Rereading, the Polish site simply names it the D800.... is a special edition of the D800. Sorry this was coming from the Google auto translate!

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    D800


    Quote Originally Posted by weinschela View Post

    Anyone know whether the D800 user manual is available on line?

    I'd also like to see the user manual, e.g. whether the three image sizes - large, medium, and small - can be saved in RAW or only jpeg file format ?

    Does anyone know this ?

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    Re: D800

    Quote Originally Posted by Steen View Post



    I'd also like to see the user manual, e.g. whether the three image sizes - large, medium, and small - can be saved in RAW or only jpeg file format ?

    Does anyone know this ?
    Hi Steen,

    The three image sizes are referring to JPEGs, not RAW. I guess you are referring to Canon's implementation of sRAW? Nikon certainly does not have that as it is no true RAW anymore.

    Some time ago I read an article explaining why sRAW is a crippled RAW, not sure if I can still find it. If so, I will post a link.

    cheers,
    Remko

  25. #175
    Senior Member Antonio Chagin's Avatar
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    Re: D800

    Guys check out these NEF files. These are much better sample taken in studio with more control.

    Fotopolis.pl: Nikon D800E - zdjcia testowe

    Fotopolis.pl: Nikon D800E - zdjcia testowe

  26. #176
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    Re: D800

    Okay check imaging resource they have files as well. I downloaded the 800,1600 and ISO 100 ones and just for kicks I processed the ISO 100 put a touch of clarity on it and contrast than ran a sharpening action and damn its pretty darn good. ISO 1600 the noise looks pretty good in the test shadows without any work on it. Things are looking pretty nice. BTW it takes a LOT to impress me with a 60 mpx monster on a tech cam in the safe. LOL

    ISO 100 with a little work on it

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    Re: D800

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    BTW it takes a LOT to impress me with a 60 mpx monster on a tech cam in the safe. LOL
    What are some of your specific impressions, comparing it to your experience with the 60 mpx monster?

    I was startled looking at the pics on this site comparing the d800 to the d3x. I expected minor differences but they were huge, especially looking at the fabric samples in the upper left. I don't know for sure if the lenses were identical.

  28. #178
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: D800

    One is the file tends to be flat which in turn means good DR. When we have to add black to the file that is a good sign. The color palette also looks pretty neutral which is not a Nikon trait. This is very good. The primaries all look real with no bias. Noise looks good in the shadows another good DR sign. Now this is very soon in the game and I'm not a big fan of ACR but I have not seen anything bad in the files. Now how much getting beat around in a raw processor and clipping control is something we have to see plus how does it do in harsh light and very low light. So we have to see how this sensor actually preforms in real world. Studio stuff looks good so far but what happens when we push things. So still a lot a questions and answers to come.

    No question I will put it up against a gold standard like the Iq 160 back and see how it measures up outside the resolution side. On the resolution side we have to see what are good sharpening setting that give a nice neutral file and look. People tend to push this area too hard. Finally we have to see how it prints at native size and larger.
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    Re: D800

    I'm definitely not the only one looking forward to that review.

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    D800 RAW files


    here are some RAW files (NEF) to play with, from a Polish website

    time to wake up and bring one of my RAW converters up to date ...

    Fotopolis.pl: Nikon D800 i D800E - zdjcia plenerowe

    - - - - -

    the linked webpage seems to come and go with short intervals

    maybe too many looking at it at the same time

  31. #181
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    Re: D800

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    No question I will put it up against a gold standard like the Iq 160 back and see how it measures up outside the resolution side. On the resolution side we have to see what are good sharpening setting that give a nice neutral file and look. People tend to push this area too hard. Finally we have to see how it prints at native size and larger.
    Guy, You mean when the D800 whips the IQ 160 in all image characteristics, we can expect a "distressed" fire sale on your IQ 160 and all associated equipment? (Time & Date Please )

    But seriously, I think the more we learn and work with the D800 files and understand both their pluses and minuses, their malleability with regards to various and extensive post processing and certainly the cameras body's capabilities, will certainly go a long way as to their value in providing an appropriate substitute for other systems we have in our arsenal for certain applications. It's a bit too early to tell, but so far I've been impressed with various (although no all) aspects of it's files.

    Dave (D&A)

  32. #182
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: D800

    LOL Absolutely the more we work with it and see how malleable it is and what we can draw from it the more informed we will be. It won't beat MF capture but if we can get close than this thing is certainly a winner.I honestly have 2 dogs in this fight and I truly want to see how well the D800 is. To be real honest i want it damn close as this will be a lot of the client work.
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  33. #183
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: D800

    This is cleaned up in ACR with noise reduction ( ISO 1600 file)and held its detail. Cant wait to get these files in C1

    But this is really good. At the moment I am very excited

    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  34. #184
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    Re: D800

    >>>[QUOTE=Guy Mancuso;398722] This is cleaned up in ACR with noise reduction ( ISO 1600 file)and held its detail. Cant wait to get these files in C1
    But this is really good. At the moment I am very excited<<<

    Guy, it most certainly does look extremely good but speaking for myself personally, images taken at higher ISO's such as 1600 + have to hold up well when such captures are taken where many parts of the frame are going to be in deep shadows, while the rest of the frame will have extensive highlights, the latter which has to be exposed properly (read: file has extensive dynamic range). It is a tall order for many cameras to be able to keep the shadow details in these sorts of images relatively clean but the Nikon D700, D3 (D3s) is able to achieve this. From the little I've seen so far, the D800 might be able to also pull this off too.

    Dave (D&A)

  35. #185
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: D800

    Exactly Dave we need to get this in bad stuff
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: D800

    &A
    Quote Originally Posted by D View Post
    ...images taken at higher ISO's such as 1600 + have to hold up well when such captures are taken where many parts of the frame are going to be in deep shadows, while the rest of the frame will have extensive highlights, the latter which has to be exposed properly (read: file has extensive dynamic range). It is a tall order for many cameras to be able to keep the shadow details in these sorts of images relatively clean but the Nikon D700, D3 (D3s) is able to achieve this. From the little I've seen so far, the D800 might be able to also pull this off too.

    Dave (D&A)
    Preliminary tests are showing the camera to be excellent in this regard, possibly at the top of the heap ... but like every other camera it loses a stop of dynamic range for each added stop of ISO. By 1600, limits of the real world are intruding in a big way. We'll have to wait to see how this plays out in the real world, but the image analyses say don't expect miracles.

    Luckily the only pictures I take above base ISO are of my cat.

  37. #187
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: D800

    D800 manual you can download from Nikon rumors. 472 pages
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  38. #188
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    Re: D800

    After you have read it, we want a report!

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    Re: D800

    That's painful. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: D800

    Quote Originally Posted by paulraphael View Post
    D&A

    Preliminary tests are showing the camera to be excellent in this regard, possibly at the top of the heap ... but like every other camera it loses a stop of dynamic range for each added stop of ISO. By 1600, limits of the real world are intruding in a big way. We'll have to wait to see how this plays out in the real world, but the image analyses say don't expect miracles.

    Luckily the only pictures I take above base ISO are of my cat.
    With regards to the Nikon D7000, I experienced the reduced dynamic range when I increased the ISO setting beyond 800. Images also looked flat. I was concerned back then and also recently when I heard that in some aspects, the D800's sensor may be essentually an enlarged version of the D7000 sensor. If true (to some degree), that would explain a lot what I and others initially observed with the D700 RAw files. Of course there is no way to know if this aspect holds up and to what extent with the D800, that is until the camera is in the hands of many capable photographers. So judegemnt has to be reserved at this point in time.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 16th March 2012 at 23:10.

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    Re: D800

    For anyone who hasn't seen this page yet, it's an interesting comparative chart for dynamic range.

    Click on the camera names on the right.

    Information comes from software analysis of raw files. Cameras with (e) after the model name haven't been tested with the author's standard test setup, but rather from sample raw files found online.

    You can see why d7000 images look flatter at iso 800. The same reason all camera images do. DR to ISO ratio is inverse, and mostly linear. At 800 cameras have about 4 stops less DR than at 100.

    If you're wondering about the bumpy shape of the d800's curve between iso 200 and 800, the author assumes this is experimental error and will disappear when he's able to test with his standard test subject.

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    Re: D800

    Ok, I grabbed one of the Fotopolis.pl RAW images from the D800E and ran it through Lightroom 4. It could not clean up the CA in the branches as well as I would have liked, but it noise reduced and sharpened well. And like Guy said, I had to add some black back into it. It is uploaded to Flickr so YMMV. View the full sized image to get the full effect:


    Nikon D800E Test by Carlos Echenique, on Flickr
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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    Re: D800

    I need to carefully consider the 800 / 800e choice. My work is mostly urban landscape, and lately a lot of rough, post-industrial interiors. My concerns aren't about fabric as much as patterns in distant bricks, window screens, fences, chicken wire glass, grids, etc. etc..

    I have zero sense of how often moir is likely to be an issue with this work.

    I'd be curious to hear from people with MF digital cameras, but probably won't really make my decision until field reports from the 800e start piling in.

  44. #194
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    Re: D800

    I Decided on the d800 model because of the ability to sharpen and get close to "e" resolution. For the price of one DF, you could buy both d800's. I think if your printing big poster size gallery prints, you might notice the difference in resolution between the two.

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    Re: D800

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    Ok, I grabbed one of the Fotopolis.pl RAW images from the D800E and ran it through Lightroom 4. It could not clean up the CA in the branches as well as I would have liked, but it noise reduced and sharpened well. And like Guy said, I had to add some black back into it. It is uploaded to Flickr so YMMV. View the full sized image to get the full effect:


    Nikon D800E Test by Carlos Echenique, on Flickr
    Carlos: which lens did you use just for reference?

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    Re: D800

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    Some of the sample D800/D800E photos used f/8. I have a strong feeling that this is already diffraction limited.

    As others mentioned we need great lenses, good shooting skills and very good post processing. Add my Fine Detail Sharpen to these images and they got quite a bit better. But they also had fine halos baked into the JPEGs.
    the link to the page from which to accuire youre Fine Detail Sharpen actions at

    DOP Fine Detail Sharpen

    contains a link to another action entirely

    You can get a demo version of DOP Photo Intensifier from here.

    I'd like to try the Fine Detail Sharpen action but havent found a functioning link to same

    THank you.

  47. #197
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    Re: D800

    Quote Originally Posted by mypov+ View Post
    the link to the page from which to accuire youre Fine Detail Sharpen actions at

    DOP Fine Detail Sharpen

    contains a link to another action entirely

    You can get a demo version of DOP Photo Intensifier from here.

    I'd like to try the Fine Detail Sharpen action but havent found a functioning link to same

    THank you.
    I could not find the bad link. Here is what I got following your links:

    http://www.outbackphoto.com/filters/...PF032_Demo.zip

    I think it is ok?
    Uwe Steinmueller
    -------------------

    Editor&Owner of Digital Outback Photo
    http://www.outbackphoto.com

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