Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Yea I meant 60 for sharp and 35 1.4 look
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What Lenses for the D800?
- Thread starter Mr.Gale
- Start date
The 105 DC for the most part introduces spherical aberration when the DC control is rotated off it's null position, which in a properly calibrated lens would be zero. Additionally as spehrical aberation is added, there is a shift in the depth of field so that the subject focused on will shift position in the zone of focus relative to where they were positioned previously. Of course the more you stop down from wide open, the less SA is evident (and the less the effects of DC is noticeable) until the DC control has little effect if lens is stopped down enough. This explanation is of course an over-simplification of course.
What I personally would do is first determine the DC setting that gives you the the best sharpness wide open. Then I would adjust the D800's AF fine tune setting for the lens at that DC setting and finally go back and retest to confirm which DC setting is essentially "null"(zero). As you observed, some find the most attractive use of this lens is not at it's null setting but with DC slightly applied....and often along with this is an aperture setting of either wide open or slightly stopped down. Of course it's all personal preference and subject dependent,
Dave (D&A)
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
I'll send you my 35 bud if you want to give it a run. Heck may never get it back. Lol
You won't LOLOL! I may take you up on that, but I really need to wait a month before even trying it -- my CC needs some serious rest to cool off :ROTFL:
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Lol mine melted
Hi Uwe,
Since I'm on my tiny cell phone at the moment, I'll only be able to provide you with the short answer at the moment. There is in my opinion a fairly significant optical difference between the 70-200 f2.8 VRI and VRII lens. Although both are notable performers, the VRII is significantly imporved at the longer end of its focal length range towards and at 200mm. This is especially so in the improved performance along the edges/sides and corners on full frame and it can be readily seen shooting most subjects that fill the entire frame. It also seems to do much better with Nikon's new 2x TC-EIII teleconverter, making that particular pair quite useful with more than aceptable performance.
As for differences in the VR effectiveness itself, I cannot speak specifically between the two versions of this lens and whether VRII is improved. I can though speak about VRI vs. VRII in both versions of Nikon's 300 f2.8 (VRI vs. VRII). Optically both lenses perform identically but found VR II provides maybe (approx) 1/2 to 3/4 stops improved performance in terms of hand holdability...although I rarely used this lens hand held. It wasn't significant enough to sell the VRI version and obtain the VRII. I found about the same difference with Nikon's 200-400 f4 VRI vs VRII. It's in the case of the 70-200 f2.8 lens, where significant optical improvements were made in my opinion.
Dave (D&A)
GrahamWelland
Subscriber & Workshop Member
Shooting full frame with the 70-200 VR II is SIGNIFICANTLY sharper in the corners and also vignettes less too. The original 70-200 VR is a great lens on a cropped sensor camera but you'll very quickly notice the softness at the edges of this lens. Otherwise, everything else that Dave mentions applies.
Hi Monza,On the 105DC what exactly is considered - and +?
I'm assuming rotation towards the F is - and towards R is +?
Dave do you have any links about Nikon shipping these with best sharpness at other than null? Thank you
Nikon as far as I know hasn't made any statement about how these lenses are adjusted prior to leaving the factory, but for approx. 6 years or more, many who purchased this lens new have found "null" was not at zero as expected but instead found it (generally) at -1 or -2. Some lens samples varied even more. Although I have no statistically significant evidence, I've heard of more Nikon USA purchased units appearing this way (when new) than those purchased overseas. It wouldn't really make sense why, unless Nikon USA received these lenses in large unboxed batches from Nikon Japan and due to the nature of shipping, Nikon USA felt the delicate nature of the Defocus Control of each lens should be tweaked/adjusted prior to boxing up in Nikon USA boxes for sale and possibly something was "off" with their adjustment equipment.
For a time I though maybe Nikon Japan might have felt that since this was primarily a portrait lens, that the best "look" was when a slight bit of "SA" was introduced and this was adjusted to be "Zero" on the DC ring. Yet if I recall correctly, literature received with this lens mentioned that "zero" was where the DC in effect was off.
I believe a rear varator (spelling?) group is responsible for purposly introducing SA, which results in the soft effect seen. As mentioned previously, the depth of field will move forward or backwards relative to the subject focused on, depending how much SA is introduced. Stopping down of course eliminates residual SA. Lastly there are multiple methods people also employ when using this lens. Focus on subject first and then introduce defocus by turning DC ring + or - to a # that matches the aperture used. Others first turn the DC ring in + or - direction and to the # matching the aperture used, then focus on the subject. Actually more is going on with the turning of the DC control and the introducton of SA, and this is especially relavent as to whether the DC control ring is moved towards the "Front" or "rear" direction.
Nikon suggests one particular method for correct focusing when the DC effect is employed, but both the methods described have been used, depending on the effect one is looking for....and even setting the DC control to a # other than the aperture set on the lens can also yield interesting effects. In relaity there really is no right and wrong when attempting to achieve a certain look.
Lighting plays a very prominant role when SA is introduced as the angle of lighting and reflections in the image, can very much influence "the look".
Dave (D&A)
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Thanks Graham for mentioning the vignetting differeces between the two versions...it's quite significanty. My comments were primarily reflecting using these two lenses on full frame.
The other issue I fogot to mention is "focus breathing" which is significant with the new VRII version and upset quite a few. Namely when lens is set to 200mm and focused on a subject closer than it's infinity setting, the actual focal length of the lens is something less than 200mm, and in fact I beleive gets as shot as 140mm. So at closer range, this lens is effectively only a 140mm lens (unlike the VRI version.
Dave (D&A)
Hi Again Monza,
I forgot to answer your +, - question with regards to the DC control. Left is "front" and right is "rear". Many of these lenses "null" position was found at one or two clicks to the "rear" position. This is what some refer to as the "-" position.....just the opposite of what you mentioned.
Dave (D&A)
I forgot to answer your +, - question with regards to the DC control. Left is "front" and right is "rear". Many of these lenses "null" position was found at one or two clicks to the "rear" position. This is what some refer to as the "-" position.....just the opposite of what you mentioned.
Dave (D&A)
You're most welcome. Bet in less than one generation from now, the meaning of "shot a roll" will probably take on a whole new meaning...LOLThanks Dave. I just obtained one of these lenses, and have shot only one roll so far, should have first results in a day or two...all shot at f/2, -1. Yes, I know; a roll, how quaint, right?
Figuring out this lens works will be a good use for digital...heh he
Robert
Robert, I love film too, but to be honest, it would be a lot easier if you could experiement with this lens first on a full frame DSLR and at least develop a foundation for what effects you obtain by the altering the various settings and their combinations that this lens offers. I admire though your approach and I can't say I haven't been there before with such a unique lens as the 105 DC. I own a couple of quite rare soft focus lenses (one is a fast f2.8 zoom) and I too learned about all their permutations while testing on roll after roll of film (as digital was just a twinkle in the eye of its inventor).
I'm not the biggest fan how Nikon technically implemented it's DC on its 105 and 135mm DC lenses and instead of it being straight forward, it often leads to more confusion and less consistancy than it should. Many simply end up using it essentually with DC turned off and as a normal high performance mid range telephoto lens....which in some ways is unfortunate. In any case enjoy your new acquisition and let us know how it goes.
Dave (D&A)
I had a 70-200VRI when I used the d2h and d2x and never was totally happy. I found it somewhat flat wide open, finally sold it and then used a 180/2.8 and a 200/2.0 instead.
Years later when I tried the 70-200VRII and found it a major improvement. Sharp and nice contrast even wide open, this lens is so good that I even sold the 200/2.0VR (because I found the difference in IQ to small and didnt really need f2.0).
So IMO major improvement from a so&so fast telezoom to an exceptional lens. I dont know how it works with the high pixel density of the d800 though.
Robert,Thanks Dave. I just obtained one of these lenses, and have shot only one roll so far, should have first results in a day or two...all shot at f/2, -1. Yes, I know; a roll, how quaint, right?
Figuring out this lens works will be a good use for digital...heh he
Robert
:wtf: is a roll?
FWIW, I prefer my lens set at +1 or +2 for look, perhaps -1 for max sharpness. I will hopefully -- weather and time permitting -- be posting examples later this week.