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Thread: Nikon D800 First Blush

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Nikon D800 First Blush


    Quote Originally Posted by routlaw View Post

    Steen once again, thanks for the opportunity to examine and work with the D800 files. (...)
    You are welcome, Rob

    In the 'roof tiles' shot I think the colors were actually a bit too warm in my RAW conversion or maybe with too much red tint, but I just left it at Lightroom's Daylight WB without further manual tweaking since I was in a hurry.

    Btw. it suits the church interior shot well with the added brightness in your conversion.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Now on color Nikon has improved a lot as things look much more neutral. I see some magenta in our picture and my wife is fair skinned and usually comes up slightly magenta but in the past this was horrible both from Canon and Nikon. Much closer to my IQ 160. This is encouraging. Honestly from what I have been seeing the last couple days this is damn good.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Nikon D800 First Blush


    Here's one with an old screwdrive focus AF Nikkor 35mm f/2 D (basically a 23 year old lens design afaik), weighs 205 g (review by Thom Hogan)


    Link to the RAW file

    80A_0109_AF_35mm_D_iso100_12bit.NEF



    click for native sized jpeg (7.8 Mb)

    in some browsers the F11 key maximizes and again minimizes <-> the web browser window


    Nikon D800 • AF Nikkor 2/35mm D • 12 bit 1/60 sec. at f/8 ISO 100 • Lightroom 4

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Now on color Nikon has improved a lot as things look much more neutral. I see some magenta in our picture and my wife is fair skinned and usually comes up slightly magenta but in the past this was horrible both from Canon and Nikon. Much closer to my IQ 160. This is encouraging. Honestly from what I have been seeing the last couple days this is damn good.
    Guy,

    congratulations to that wonderful camera! I am waiting to get my D800E pretty soon

    Well, WRT colors, I think Nikon already improved with the D7000 generation.

    WRT Magenta - your wife looks pretty great and "neutral" if there is some Magenta it is on your skin just kidding ....

    Enjoy

    Peter

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    Workshop Member Bryan Stephens's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Guy

    Did you go with the D800 or the D800e.
    Bryan

    “You don’t take a photograph, you make it.” — Ansel Adams

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    I have the D800 right now. But either I may switch to the E when it comes out and get a D7000 for backup or just have both versions of the D800. But I would like to test the E first and decide. No hurry on either right now. I do have the conflict of shooting lots of things so having both would be nice.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    More to come. Heading home and a lot to process but I'm pretty happy with it. For me you just don't know how hard that is for me to say about 35mm. LOL
    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Guy,

    congratulations to that wonderful camera! I am waiting to get my D800E pretty soon

    Well, WRT colors, I think Nikon already improved with the D7000 generation.

    WRT Magenta - your wife looks pretty great and "neutral" if there is some Magenta it is on your skin just kidding ....

    Enjoy

    Peter
    I never tried the D7000 last Nikon I had was the D300
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  8. #108
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    35 1.4 G at 2.8

    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush



    This is D800 + Nikon 14-24mm at ISO 100 and f/22.
    This is no doubt the best 35mm SLR for landscape photography.
    Pramote

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush


    This is the D800 with Nikon 16-35mm VR at ISO 100 and f/22.

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    Senior Member Swissblad's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Pramote
    Thanks for posting these photos.
    Have you noticed any image degradation as you change from f8 to f22?
    Just curious about how bad the issue of diffractions really is.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Could one of the lucky d800 owners clear this up?

    Nikon's website and owner's manual show a table of file sizes for different formats, and corresponding memory card capacities. Strangely, it lists the same card capacity for lossless-compressed NEFs as for uncompressed NEFs. Even though uncompressed file size is substantially larger.

    Is just an editing mistake?

    Also, is there any disadvantage at all to using lossless compression on raw files? And if not, why does the uncompressed option even exist?

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Swissblad...I haven't tried yet but thought about this issue. These pictures came out very well in 16x20" prints.
    I may try this week with different f stops on the 14-24mm (I've already returned the 16-35mm VR).

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Landscapelover View Post
    Swissblad...I haven't tried yet but thought about this issue. These pictures came out very well in 16x20" prints.
    I may try this week with different f stops on the 14-24mm (I've already returned the 16-35mm VR).
    May we know why you returned the 16-35 VR ???

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Pramote - brilliant images! Question - how's the diffraction at f22 with the D800? i've been hearing some interesting things about the D800, and thinking of matching them up with the PC-E lenses for portraits, architecture, and landscapes
    My images on 500px : http://500px.com/ghoonk
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Here's a d800 with the 24mm PC lens. Minor collision in that last millimeter ...

    Should be quite useable, but kind of annoying, considering how many people are going to want to match the two.


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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    So it only collides in the last mm? That's good news considering there was speculation it wouldn't work at all!
    I'd love to see some shots with this combo if you have time. It's exactly the setup I'm hoping to move into in order to help tame my 4x5" addiction – I'm too poor to keep up the pace of shooting I've set!

    Quote Originally Posted by paulraphael View Post
    Here's a d800 with the 24mm PC lens. Minor collision in that last millimeter ...

    Should be quite useable, but kind of annoying, considering how many people are going to want to match the two.


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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    So it only collides in the last mm? That's good news considering there was speculation it wouldn't work at all!
    I'd love to see some shots with this combo if you have time. It's exactly the setup I'm hoping to move into in order to help tame my 4x5" addiction – I'm too poor to keep up the pace of shooting I've set!
    I should have made clear that it's not my camera and not my lens. Someone else posted that online. I can see it's crashing in the last millimeter because the shift scale is visible in the picture.

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    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    It looks as if the shift axis is not vertical. I've seen similar pictures on an earlier Nikon body, and there was no body strike in the vertical shift position, only slightly diagonal. As you can see, the tilt knob is not vertical in this picture.

    --Matt

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    May we know why you returned the 16-35 VR ???
    The 16-35 VR is a very good lens. I couldn't tell the IQ difference of both lenses for my landscape work.
    I've also had 24-70mm, therefore, the extra 25-35mm from 16-35 VR does not add up to me.
    The quality-built of 14-24mm is much better. The 16-35 is a plastic.
    Most importantly, I love the extreme wide angle-lens so an extra 14-15mm is very important to me.
    I also love "night photography", therefore, 1 stop can make a big difference. The 14-24mm is amazingly good at f/2.8.
    Although filter (especially GND) is a problem, I can bracket and blend them in Photoshop and will take me only few more minutes. Polarizer is a compromised but I don't use it as frequent for darkening the sky for wide angle any way.
    If I need to eliminate the glare, I can use the 24-70mm with the polarizer.
    The only limitation for me is inability to use"Lee Big Stopper" filter but I can use the 24-70mm which is usually wide enough.
    Best regards,
    Pramote

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    It looks as if the shift axis is not vertical. I've seen similar pictures on an earlier Nikon body, and there was no body strike in the vertical shift position, only slightly diagonal. As you can see, the tilt knob is not vertical in this picture.

    --Matt
    Good catch! That makes complete sense.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by ghoonk View Post
    Pramote - brilliant images! Question - how's the diffraction at f22 with the D800? i've been hearing some interesting things about the D800, and thinking of matching them up with the PC-E lenses for portraits, architecture, and landscapes
    Thanks ghoonk for your kind.
    I don't know how much the diffraction at f/22 is. I will test this week.
    Although PC-E lens may solve the diffraction problem, it's surprisingly not in Nikon lenses' recommendation. Will it cause non-fixable color cast?
    Too bad, I only have canon TS lenses.
    Pramote

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    Senior Member Antonio Chagin's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by paulraphael View Post
    Here's a d800 with the 24mm PC lens. Minor collision in that last millimeter ...

    Should be quite useable, but kind of annoying, considering how many people are going to want to match the two.

    Nikon should not have put a flash on such a camera.

  24. #124
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by paulraphael View Post
    Here's a d800 with the 24mm PC lens. Minor collision in that last millimeter ...

    Should be quite useable, but kind of annoying, considering how many people are going to want to match the two.
    Looks easy to file off that offending millimeter.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Question- Is there a hand grip available for the D800? txs....Peter

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    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Steen View Post

    You are welcome, Rob

    In the 'roof tiles' shot I think the colors were actually a bit too warm in my RAW conversion or maybe with too much red tint, but I just left it at Lightroom's Daylight WB without further manual tweaking since I was in a hurry.

    Btw. it suits the church interior shot well with the added brightness in your conversion.
    Interesting I also used LR to convert the raw file on these, but had the choice of "as shot" WB which was 5050/+8 and used this instead of a canned WB, then went on to make adjustments in CS5.

    I am also attaching the following file from your piano in white room shot. Of all the files you have been so generous to share this one is by far the most demanding and which begs many questions regarding the ratings for this camera. Suffice it to say I found this image to be less than stellar, not because of the photography but the way the camera's dynamic range failed here. Understand please this is not a disparaging remark about your photograph, but rather about the camera's inability to hold highlights and shadows in the piano. Worse still was the excessive noise throughout all 3 color channels of the piano, not just one or two. One would think a camera that has a purported 14.4 EVS dynamic range would have handled this scene significantly better. Having owned the D3 for a few years now I feel confident in stating it most likely would have.

    Hopefully this question can start an informed and intelligent dialogue regarding DxO's testing methods. Their scores certainly don't seem to jive with this image. I do want to point out before making the conversion in ACR I zeroed out all adjustments, used camera neutral, added no USM. Effectively I started out with as flat of an image as possible yet still the white wall was excessively clipped and the black piano blocked up and showing significant noise at base ISO. The histogram was already at its limits on both ends, so reducing the exposure would have served little purpose and the highlight recovery tool did not entirely retrieve the clipped highlights.

    Anyway here is my rendition:
    Last edited by routlaw; 23rd May 2015 at 10:11.

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    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    What version of LR and process version did you use?

    Also I would be a bit careful judging a camera by one raw converter conversion. There are too many parameters in play. If the image looks great then this is what the camera can do. If not there can be other reasons than the camera.
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    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Now on color Nikon has improved a lot as things look much more neutral. I see some magenta in our picture and my wife is fair skinned and usually comes up slightly magenta but in the past this was horrible both from Canon and Nikon. Much closer to my IQ 160. This is encouraging. Honestly from what I have been seeing the last couple days this is damn good.
    Guy I agree comparing the D4 with my previous Nikons the red channel is not so overdriven, the yellows not too warm/red and just as importantly the blacks and shadows are not polluted with off color, usually being blue to magenta. In fact thus far the blacks have been very neutral with my D4. That said one way to improve out of the box color is to utilize the pre-set WB feature which allows you to create and save 4 different WB settings for different light & lens situations, ie daylight, studio flash etc.

    In order to implement this you will need a very accurate and fairly large gray card, Robin Myers Imaging gray card is my favorite and inexpensive too. The manual will walk you through this but briefly, choose a pre-set of 1 through 4 and hold that preset button down for a couple of seconds until it starts to blink, place your gray card directly in front of the lens, very close to it so that it fills the entire frame, pull the trigger. The back display will tell you whether its good or not. If it is you're good to go and you can also go into the menus to type what that particular preset should be called, ie 14-24 lens-daylight, or what ever tickles your fancy. I rarely ever use any of the WB settings in Nikon menus preferring instead the pre-sets, far more accurate, reliable and effective. But will add thus far the auto wb with the D4 has been remarkably accurate regardless of the lighting situation. Here Nikon has really gone all out.

    Hope this helps.

    Rob

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    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    What version of LR and process version did you use?

    Also I would be a bit careful judging a camera by one raw converter conversion. There are too many parameters in play. If the image looks great then this is what the camera can do. If not there can be other reasons than the camera.
    You can only use LR 4, and ACR 6.7 to open D4 and D800 files. To the best of my knowledge no other converters work with these two cameras except Capture NX2 which I gave up on years ago.

    But it is worth pointing out, I am also comparing the performance here with other known entities, ie D3/D3s and probably my new D4 as doing much better in this type of situation with same conversion engine. I don't disagree that different converters will render different results, but when the results are this bad I am inclined to believe DxO's testing methods are just not appropriate let alone accurate to real world photography. As well in the first image Steen provided with blue sky over the steeple, broad daylight, base ISO, a significant amount of red channel noise was present. Reminded me of the D2x days. Again I don't see this with the D3, or D4 for that matter.

    To the best of my recollection not a single high res image downloaded from Nikons website and no doubt using NX2 also had problems with noise on just about every image I looked at. Effectively I don't think this is about converters so much as how the camera is rated.

    Rob

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    >and the highlight recovery tool did not entirely retrieve the clipped highlights.

    I got confused about this because there is no Highlight recovery tool in Process 2012. Highlight recovery is done with Exposure(negative), Highlights and Whites. If you tune down the exposure you have to counter it with Shadows and maybe blacks.

    Please post a larger crop that shows the noise you are talking about so that I may better understand.
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Guy,

    Regarding that lovely shot of you and your wife....if ever there was a moire inducing test pattern, you're wearing it!! LOL! How do I know? I have the exact same shirt and it often wrecks havoc with AA filterless cameras. Just like a portable color checker, always handy when you need it....don't forget to wear that shirt and have a pic taken of you wearing it, if you decide to go for the D800E. Would be a perfect test for the effectiveness of Nikon's NX2 moire tool. From what I see in that posted image (of you and your wife), the regular D800 handled it well. If yours is in the laundry, I can loan you mine ...just keep it clean, LOL!

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 27th March 2012 at 05:53.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by routlaw View Post
    Interesting I also used LR to convert the raw file on these, but had the choice of "as shot" WB which was 5050/+8 and used this instead of a canned WB, then went on to make adjustments in CS5.

    I am also attaching the following file from your piano in white room shot. Of all the files you have been so generous to share this one is by far the most demanding and which begs many questions regarding the ratings for this camera. Suffice it to say I found this image to be less than stellar, not because of the photography but the way the camera's dynamic range failed here. Understand please this is not a disparaging remark about your photograph, but rather about the camera's inability to hold highlights and shadows in the piano. Worse still was the excessive noise throughout all 3 color channels of the piano, not just one or two. One would think a camera that has a purported 14.4 EVS dynamic range would have handled this scene significantly better. Having owned the D3 for a few years now I feel confident in stating it most likely would have.

    Hopefully this question can start an informed and intelligent dialogue regarding DxO's testing methods. Their scores certainly don't seem to jive with this image. I do want to point out before making the conversion in ACR I zeroed out all adjustments, used camera neutral, added no USM. Effectively I started out with as flat of an image as possible yet still the white wall was excessively clipped and the black piano blocked up and showing significant noise at base ISO. The histogram was already at its limits on both ends, so reducing the exposure would have served little purpose and the highlight recovery tool did not entirely retrieve the clipped highlights.

    Anyway here is my rendition:
    DxO's definition of the noise floor is 1:1 S/N ratio. That's not really useful for shadow noise. If the noise level were constant, we could just adjust the DR for the desired shadow smoothness, but I do not know if that is the case.

    I'm as confused as anyone about the meaning of DxO scores.

    --Matt

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    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    >I'm as confused as anyone about the meaning of DxO scores.

    >DxO's definition of the noise floor is 1:1 S/N ratio. That's not really useful for shadow noise.

    True but good to measure :-)

    Here is how I take them:

    1. Just think of them relative between cameras
    2. Don't think of them in real f-stops (that would be phantasie)
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Senior Member viablex1's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    well routlaw you went and jumped in LOL!!!!!

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by routlaw View Post
    Guy I agree comparing the D4 with my previous Nikons the red channel is not so overdriven, the yellows not too warm/red and just as importantly the blacks and shadows are not polluted with off color, usually being blue to magenta. In fact thus far the blacks have been very neutral with my D4. That said one way to improve out of the box color is to utilize the pre-set WB feature which allows you to create and save 4 different WB settings for different light & lens situations, ie daylight, studio flash etc.

    Rob
    Excellent observation! I noticed pretty much the same thing while working with a D4 on loan, late last week. Nikon really did their homework with color balance with this one (D4) and blacks for the most part have remained neutral, even as the ISO is upped. From what I am hearing and seeing, the D800 has followed a good deal of this.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 27th March 2012 at 05:53.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by viablex1 View Post
    well routlaw you went and jumped in LOL!!!!!
    Not sure what you mean. I find this a very useful discussion. Would only like to understand the issues at hand.
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Hey stein you would have to know him, I totally agree this is a very useful discussion by people that know a hell of alot more than me, not trying to mess with you. Routlaw is kind of my idol.

    here is a 100 percent crop


    crop by gungyduo, on Flickr

  38. #138
    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    >and the highlight recovery tool did not entirely retrieve the clipped highlights.

    I got confused about this because there is no Highlight recovery tool in Process 2012. Highlight recovery is done with Exposure(negative), Highlights and Whites. If you tune down the exposure you have to counter it with Shadows and maybe blacks.

    Please post a larger crop that shows the noise you are talking about so that I may better understand.
    You don't have to use the 2012 process in ACR or LR 4.0, you can revert back to the 2010 process which then provides all of the tools, and attributes we are used to and this is what I did on this image. But regardless of whether you use 2012 or 2010 process the noise is there. Also the user interface in ACR 6.7 is different than LR 4.0 and the controls you mention above for the 2012 process are not in the Beta release of ACR 6.7.

    Rather than me post a crop I would encourage you to also download the same raw file Steen has so graciously provided for us and examine it yourself. Its further up in the thread.

    Hope this helps.

    Rob

  39. #139
    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    Excellent observation! I noticed pretty much the same thing while working with a D4 on loan, late last week. Nikon really did their homework with color balance with this one (D4) and blacks for the most part have remained neutral, even as the ISO is upped. From what I am hearing and seeing, the D800 has followed a good deal of this.

    Dave (D&A)
    Yes Dave I would agree based upon the files I have seen the D800 has the same level of color accuracy of the D4 assuming correct WB and so forth.

    Rob

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    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post

    Here is how I take them:

    1. Just think of them relative between cameras
    2. Don't think of them in real f-stops (that would be phantasie)
    Uwe, I'm not sure this is correct. The definition of DR as I understand it is the ability of a device in this case a camera or its sensor to differentiate between highlight and black without clipping or blocking. Granted this is an over simplification of the situation but it does hold true. So considering real f-stops is absolutely relevant in this case. DR should not have relevance from one camera to the next, its simply a case of how many f-stops of latitude one device can capture from a pure white to the 1:1 SNR ratio in black. Understand too there are engineers in the field who do not think this to be an appropriate measure of black either.

    Anecdotally my experience with a litany of different cameras shows them all to perform better than the image I brought up in this discussion with its limited ability to capture highlight (or white) to black and shadow detail without being swamped with noise as this image is.

    Rob

  41. #141
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Okay home on my 30 inch monitor. one word
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    More words, please!

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    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    >You don't have to use the 2012 process in ACR or LR 4.0, you can revert back to the 2010 process which then provides all of the tools, and attributes we are used to and this is what I did on this image.

    I know. I think 2012 was introduced to do a better job in the highlights and shadows. How much did you push the fill light?
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Okay home on my 30 inch monitor. one word
    OK, Guy. The tough one - M9 CCD files vs. D800 CMOS. WHere do you come down? Have you finally found a CMOS chip whose look you like?

    Not just academic interest ,

    Matt

  45. #145
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    I'll say this with no words of doubt best NIkon or Canon file I have ever seen in any CMOS chip.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Going from memory which admittedly is dangerous at my age, I will go out on a limb and say the D800 is sharper and more detailed than the M9, but the M9 gets the nudge on pushing the native ISO file around -- I'd need to compare side-by-side to comment on absolute color.

    And as soon as the Sun comes out, I will be comparing D800 files head-to-head with the IQ.
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Antonio Chagin View Post
    Nikon should not have put a flash on such a camera.
    Or alternatively; It's great they did. Nikon's remote-flash system works fantastically well when using the 'pop-up' to trigger un-tethered flashes.

    ......... Chris

  48. #148
    Senior Member Jason Muelver's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Jack,

    That's the stuff I'm looking for.

    There is a lot of pixel peeping high tech talk in this thread. While informative, it means nothing to me, and even less to my clients.

    What I am looking for, is does it provide a better delivered file to my typical clients (brides). I haven't found my D3 that limiting in that regard. But I am looking for a difference maker and I'm wondering if the D800E will be it. I think it comes down to DR and if I can WOW brides with the intricate detail in a white dress without fear of a blow out, and superior skin tones. I've been thinking the M9 would be better in that regard, but now comes the D800.

    I know a lot of you are landscape/arch shooters, but this is a business decision for me. Quite simply, will it make me more money/clients?

    Any people shooters fire this up yet?
    http://jasonedwardphoto.com http://jasonmuelver.tumblr.com
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  49. #149
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Jason I am NOT a landscape shooter. I hedged my bets on the D800. Guess what I WON.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  50. #150
    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    >You don't have to use the 2012 process in ACR or LR 4.0, you can revert back to the 2010 process which then provides all of the tools, and attributes we are used to and this is what I did on this image.

    I know. I think 2012 was introduced to do a better job in the highlights and shadows. How much did you push the fill light?
    Perhaps this is true, thus far I am not realizing the proof in it however. Understand though I was not trying to make a finished image so much as examine the file quality and in this case in particular the DR. The apparent lack of DR based upon the poor SNR from white to black is what prompted me to start this discussion.

    Pushing the fill light would not have helped one iota in this regard and if anything would have exacerbated the noise level already showing in the piano.

    So at the risk of my take on DxO's analysis for DR on cameras is preposterous. I'm just not buying it. Its worth noting my skepticism about their testing methods started long before the introduction of the D800 too. Anyone who has followed their camera test over the last few years will know their claim is the smaller the pixel the better the dynamic range and SNR when averaging pixels and there in lies the rub. One only has to look at the specs on either Kodaks or Dalsa's sensor to understand the larger the photosite (pixel dimension) the greater the ability to fill up with more photons/electrons, which is directly proportional to the SNR and therefore DR. But DxO would have you believe a 1 cup measuring cup will hold more water than a gallon pail. This assertion simply flies in the face of physics.

    Unfortunately when working in the field with any of these cameras you are not averaging pixels, there is no way to (that I am aware of) unless you own a Betterlight Scan Back which does allow you to do this by reducing the resolution and thereby file size while at the same time dramatically reduce noise if its there. That said a photographer can increase the signal to noise ratio on Nikon cameras by using the multiply exposure routine within the menus. I used to do this regularly with my D2x which dramatically reduced noise. There are some caveats however, you have to have a very solid tripod, employ perfect technique and be prepared to have jittery artifacts from overlaid shots if its windy, or clouds are moving. Stationary subjects such as Steens grand piano shot are best in this scenario. It would have been interesting also to see if a 14 bit capture might have improved the noise level in the piano.

    This is not to say the D800 will not be a great camera in some but not all circumstances. For many this camera will be an exercise in frustration as Guy also eluded to earlier on within this thread.

    Just some rambling thoughts on the subject.

    Rob

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