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Thread: Nikon D800 First Blush

  1. #151
    Senior Member Jason Muelver's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Jason I am NOT a landscape shooter. I hedged my bets on the D800. Guess what I WON.
    I know you weren't, Guy. Dammit. This is gonna cost me a bit, isn't it?

    I'm thinking an 800/D3 combo could do some exciting stuff for a wedding day.

    D800 for the artistic and large spread album shots, D3 for PJ work.
    http://jasonedwardphoto.com http://jasonmuelver.tumblr.com
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    Senior Member Jason Muelver's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Jason I am NOT a landscape shooter. I hedged my bets on the D800. Guess what I WON.

    Now.. about that AA filter or lack there of....
    http://jasonedwardphoto.com http://jasonmuelver.tumblr.com
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  3. #153
    Senior Member Jason Muelver's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    In all seriousness, Guy, ever do any work with an S2?

    I'm eyeing it as 85% of the performance of the S2 at 15% of the cost. I can accept that ratio.
    http://jasonedwardphoto.com http://jasonmuelver.tumblr.com
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    75-85 percent
    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/digita...etdpi-com.html

    And yes as a wedding shooter the ISO stuff alone will blow your doors off. The detail is in the file no worries there. I have seen a lot less power doing weddings and I cringe when i see these folks shooting what they do. LOL

    For a wedding guy looking for a edge on file quality I believe this is it.

    You need some raws to look at I can load up some of these.

    I would certainly as a wedding shooter get the best Nikon glass and all the G glass is seriously good. 24,35,85 the 70 -200, 14-24, 24-70 all have the speed and quality to them. I may have missed one or two but that is a good basic setup with these.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Nikon D800 First Blush


    Rob, when I took the very last trivial test shots of a corner without much light, I suddenly had a bright moment and remembered to take them in 14 bit mode as well.

    But it's a far less challenging histogram than the 'grand piano in white room' shot, so I don't know if it is of much help for your DR investigations.


    Here are the two test shots both of them at ISO 100 (here I have added 50 out of 150 sharpness to the jpegs in Lightroom, no other tweaks).

    I have both of them at ISO 1600, 3200 and 6400 as well if it's of any help to also post those higher ISO samples ?


    12 bit at ISO 100

    Link to the RAW file

    80A_0126_85mm_G_iso100_12bit.NEF


    click for native sized jpeg (6.5 Mb)


    Nikon D800 • AF-S Nikkor 1.4/85mm G • 12 bit 1/10 sec. at f/4 ISO 100 • Lightroom 4





    14 bit at ISO 100

    Link to the RAW file

    80A_0130_85mm_G_iso100_14bit.NEF

    click for native sized jpeg (6.6 Mb)


    Nikon D800 • AF-S Nikkor 1.4/85mm G • 14 bit 1/10 sec. at f/4 ISO 100 • Lightroom 4

  6. #156
    Super Duper
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Can anybody show some more skin tone from the D800? Whats your guys feeling about color and skin tones with the D800 - lets say compared to the D700?

  7. #157
    Senior Member ceh's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by viablex1 View Post
    Hey stein you would have to know him, I totally agree this is a very useful discussion by people that know a hell of alot more than me, not trying to mess with you. Routlaw is kind of my idol.

    here is a 100 percent crop


    crop by gungyduo, on Flickr
    ..why Adobe RGB?

  8. #158
    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by ceh View Post
    ..why Adobe RGB?
    Why not? With Nikon you get the choice of Adobe RGB or sRGB, so why not choose the color space with the largest color gamut. Makes total sense to me especially if you consider the purported huge color depth of this camera as well as the D4.

    Rob

  9. #159
    Senior Member ceh's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Steen View Post
    Here's one with an old screwdrive focus AF Nikkor 35mm f/2 D (basically a 23 year old lens design afaik), weighs 205 g (review by Thom Hogan)


    Link to the RAW file

    80A_0109_AF_35mm_D_iso100_12bit.NEF



    click for native sized jpeg (7.8 Mb)

    in some browsers the F11 key maximizes and again minimizes <-> the web browser window


    Nikon D800 AF Nikkor 2/35mm D 12 bit 1/60 sec. at f/8 ISO 100 Lightroom 4
    O.K.,

    Why sRGB ? (source file)

  10. #160
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    I am shooting in 14-bit and see no reason not to -- the cam is still extremely fast.
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  11. #161
    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    >Why not? With Nikon you get the choice of Adobe RGB or sRGB

    Does not make a diff for the NEF file. It influences the in camera histogram though. On hte we it is best to use sRGB only for JPEGs.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    >I am shooting in 14-bit and see no reason not to
    +1
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Editor&Owner of Digital Outback Photo
    http://www.outbackphoto.com

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    And I am shooting sRGB for the jpeg output . I shoot raws to the CF and (medium) jpegs to the SD -- makes for easy sharing with the family or wife's iPad
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Nikon D800 First Blush


    Quote Originally Posted by ceh View Post

    O.K.,

    Why sRGB ? (source file)

    I have come to believe it is the right color space for web and even for non-specialized photo lab printing.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Shooting Adobe RGB and at 14 bit but the jpeg in camera is really only for backup reasons. I will fill card than dump the jpegs after all the raws are secure. Nice having that second slot
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush



    Nikon 800 with Nikon 14-24mm at 15mm
    Handholding
    ISO 6400, f/6, 1/160 sec
    No crop
    Quick processing from JPEG file

    Regards,
    Pramote

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Muelver View Post
    Now.. about that AA filter or lack there of....
    For weddings I would be real scared of moire on the 800E.
    Wedding Dress = Moire Machine

  18. #168
    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Steen View Post
    Rob, when I took the very last trivial test shots of a corner without much light, I suddenly had a bright moment and remembered to take them in 14 bit mode as well.

    But it's a far less challenging histogram than the 'grand piano in white room' shot, so I don't know if it is of much help for your DR investigations.


    Here are the two test shots both of them at ISO 100 (here I have added 50 out of 150 sharpness to the jpegs in Lightroom, no other tweaks).
    Interesting comparison here. While I could not visually detect any difference between the files I did notice the 14 bit raw file was some 10 mb larger than the 12 bit version. Bringing up the levels command on each I also did a screen grab of each levels window, then brought those two into PS layering the 14 bit version on top of the 12 bit version but reduced the opacity of the top layer (14 bit is lighter gray) to 50% to see if both histograms matched. As you can see from the attached file below which is a 200% view of the screen grab of the two layered windows they do not. Clearly the 14 bit file as indicated by the levels window has more data even if we can't detect it on a monitor.

    Perhaps on some images the difference might show up more readily, but in any case it would appear the 14 bit path allows for more post production data to work with. With difficult images to edit perhaps this would serve some advantage.

    Rob
    Last edited by routlaw; 23rd May 2015 at 10:11.

  19. #169
    Member Lee Love's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    And I am shooting sRGB for the jpeg output . I shoot raws to the CF and (medium) jpegs to the SD -- makes for easy sharing with the family or wife's iPad
    Jack, does it even make sense to shoot sRGB anymore now that most web browsers support color management ?

    Browser Color Management

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    i'm not as well versed as you guys on photography or these issues, but shooting sRGB vs Adobe for the jpeg is not even agreed upon to editorials submitting to top wire services--the other night i surveyed the folks in the press room and it was mixed....(oh, they were submitting the jpegs of course)

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Love View Post
    Jack, does it even make sense to shoot sRGB anymore now that most web browsers support color management ?
    It's a fair question, but I err to the side of caution. There are both devices and many monitors that are CM limited and cannot handle Adobe -- so to me at least for now, sRGB seems a little more safe. In a few more years, it will be different for sure.
    Jack
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    I usually send clients for viewing on there systems SRGB in one folder and in another for offset printers a folder with profoto full res tifs. Most monitors on folks desktops or laptops are more SRGB
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  23. #173
    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    >so to me at least for now, sRGB seems a little more safe.

    I think so too.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Editor&Owner of Digital Outback Photo
    http://www.outbackphoto.com

  24. #174
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Agreed with above posts...sRGB is safer for most clients although I now cringe a bit in still having to shoot and work in that color space, even though at best they are just back-up files. I suspect like many, there will be a day in the not too distant furture when the dominant color space for most devices including viewing will be the wider ganut of Adobe RGB.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    I downloaded the piano photo to see the noise for myself and honest I can't see what the fuss is about. it's certainly far better overall than the 5D MKII and no worse considering the huge increase in resolution than the D700 at base ISO. I'm making judgements based on using both of these cameras and processing the D800 sample as I'd do to get it how I like. If I shot this scene with tranny I'd be left with an almost two tone waste of film. I guess seeing as I primarily use film that is what really matters.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Sorry if I ask again but could anybody comment on skintones and overall color of the D800 files?
    And does anybody here uses bot the D4 and D800 and could comment on how they feel a) the files and b) the camera does compare?
    I still have all that Nikon glass and my D700..
    I am mostly interested about Color and overall look of the images of the new cameras.
    Thanks for any feedback!

  27. #177
    Member nikonf's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    More to come. Heading home and a lot to process but I'm pretty happy with it. For me you just don't know how hard that is for me to say about 35mm. LOL
    I am amazed. I shot some basketball last week with my Sony A900 at ISO 1600 and the images are virtually unusable when it comes to my standards.
    Nikon has done some amazing work with that sensor.
    I am a large format fanatic, and I am impressed!

  28. #178
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Okay folks now for some images . I honestly did not do too much here as far as processing as I want you to see the images as mostly coming out of the cam not my processing expertise. Mostly just a little sharpening and exposure control. Nothing special as far as shooting I was in San Juan Capistrano mission with my wife spending the day together and it was overcast and a little ugly out but it is what it is and I got to work this cam a little. Before I go any further I am pretty impressed with it. It truly is the best 35mm Nikon/Canon I have ever shot.


    I have a bunch so this may get spread out a little


    This one with 14-24 at ISO 200 at 5.6



    Same lens and ISO at 16mm at 5.6



    This one with 14-24 at ISO 200 at 5.6
    24mm setting



    24mm at F11 this time. These are all handheld BTW



    15mm setting at 6.3



    19mm at 6.3



    Change in lens the 35mm 1.4G this one shot at 1.6 ISO 200



    35mm at F5 .

    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    BTW I am pretty damn smitten with the 35mm 1.4 G lens a lot like a Leica 35mm R 1.4 summilux but without the ghosting. Nice tonal graduation in the lens
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    This is the 180mm at F5 and it still was not tuned perfectly which yesterday I got it all tuned dead on here it was 9 points off but still not bad. I am going back out and shoot some real images with it. Its really my only concern lens of my set which includes 14-24, 35 1.4 G, 50 1.8G which I have not shot yet, 85 1.4 G and the 180

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    35mm at F8 which i shot this for color only

    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Here we have some high ISO stuff

    14-24 lens at 16mm F5.6 at ISO 3200



    same lens at 24mm 5.6 ISO 1600



    14mm at F5 ISO 4000



    14mm at F3.2 ISO 4000



    24mm at F8 ISO 1600

    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Guy,

    Thank you for the pictures!

    Is it that I'm reading this thread on a laptop screen, or are all the red patches almost monochromatic. It looks like there is subtlety in every other color, but there is only one Red. This holds for the outdoor umbrellas as well as the indoor shots.

    Must be the laptop...

    --Matt

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Matt,

    Good catch. As I mentioned in the D800 v MF thread, tonal separation -- especially in the reds and somewhat still in the greens -- is still problematic, at least as compared to MF capture. It's one of several reasons why this camera cannot replace MF for me.
    Jack
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Matt,

    Good catch. As I mentioned in the D800 v MF thread, tonal separation -- especially in the reds and somewhat still in the greens -- is still problematic, at least as compared to MF capture. It's one of several reasons why this camera cannot replace MF for me.
    Hi Jack . . . I thought the reds and greens was a Nikon problem?

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Jack . . . I thought the reds and greens was a Nikon problem?
    Greens have been a DIGITAL problem all along, but MF cracked it a few generations back. To date, neither Nikon or Canon or even Leica has totally cracked it. Leica M9 remains IMHO best in smaller format cameras, with this new Nikon right behind it. Reds may be the raw converter, so I am holding back on full judgement until I have more time with the files. I can tell you it aint MF skin tone quality under any circumstance...
    Jack
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  37. #187
    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    I downloaded the piano photo to see the noise for myself and honest I can't see what the fuss is about. it's certainly far better overall than the 5D MKII and no worse considering the huge increase in resolution than the D700 at base ISO. I'm making judgements based on using both of these cameras and processing the D800 sample as I'd do to get it how I like. If I shot this scene with tranny I'd be left with an almost two tone waste of film. I guess seeing as I primarily use film that is what really matters.
    I don't necessarily disagree with your comments but don't have any experience with the 5D MKII. My concerns have been based solely from DxO test results claiming this camera to have a DR of 14.4 EVS. If you flatten or zero out all adjustments in LR or ACR beta 6.7, eliminate noise reduction, USM et al, all three RGB channels do have significant amount of noise. The RGB values (with noise) in the piano range from single digits up to the low 20's but it gets worse by running up the fill light 100%, reducing contrast by 50% and pushing the recovery to 100% in order to decrease the contrast and bring up values. Those values then are in the 30's, 40's and 50's. Considering this image is made in broad daylight at base ISO shot at 1/60th of a second (hardly slow enough to need noise reduction in the first place) these results don't add up to the DxO scores. I would hope DxO does not employ noise reduction to test cameras, otherwise the results are skewed even further.

    The issue is not with Nikon and the D800, but rather the methods that DxO uses to assess the cameras. Based on this image they seem rubbish to me. A camera that truly had a DR of 14.4 f-stops should have smooth as butter imagery in all 3 channels at these values and feel very confident in stating my D3 and D4 would have, let alone my Betterlight scan back with its very fat 12 micron sensor.

    By comparison one of the first test I did with my D4 was a 30 second and 1 minute exposure inside our house at night using only the house incandescent lights with no auxiliary lighting. Effectively this was a non event with noise.

    I have a D800 coming to me on demo/loan this weekend and will do the same setup. Be interesting to see the comparisons.

  38. #188
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Greens have been a DIGITAL problem all along, but MF cracked it a few generations back. To date, neither Nikon or Canon or even Leica has totally cracked it. Leica M9 remains IMHO best in smaller format cameras, with this new Nikon right behind it. Reds may be the raw converter, so I am holding back on full judgement until I have more time with the files. I can tell you it aint MF skin tone quality under any circumstance...
    Hi Jack - I was being flippant, but it's true that a dislike for Nikon colour has stopped me jumping on this particular bandwagon (been there 3 times and always come to the same conclusion).

    Interesting though that you don't even mention Sony or Olympus (or Fuji come to that) It seems to me that Canon and Nikon trail all three of them in terms of colour rendition - I still think that the A900 does better than anything else for smaller format colour (and yes, that means better than the M9). You don't mention Olympus either (maybe they aren't worth mentioning?) but they do well with colour rendition, and whatever the practical shortcomings of the new Fuji cameras, there doesn't seem to be much room for criticism of the IQ or colour rendition.


    Personally I'm cautiously impressed with the D800, but I want to see some shots taken in evening light before I'd even consider biting.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Guy,

    Thank you for the pictures!

    Is it that I'm reading this thread on a laptop screen, or are all the red patches almost monochromatic. It looks like there is subtlety in every other color, but there is only one Red. This holds for the outdoor umbrellas as well as the indoor shots.

    Must be the laptop...

    --Matt

    Not sure those umbrellas are truly red but more a burgundy tone. One problem all weekend was i never really got full sun so i am a little hesitant on colors until we get this under bright light a little more. I guess just a little early to call it. But there are going to be some nits for sure and we just need to find all of them. On color we can also make presets and such to fine tune this stuff. Not overly concerned yet on that. On the inside shots folks I shot daylight under tungsten light so yes it will be warm. I did not switch to tungsten on the camera. I did however on some lower the color temp. So not critical color so be aware of that end.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  40. #190
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Routlaw: FTR I do not believe DXo test results have any relation to how well one can render final images. For that you have to look at the combined effects of capture and processing.

    Jono: I was never bowled over by Sony reds, and especially skin, but agree their greens were decent.
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  41. #191
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    On DXO it is meaningless to me without final processing from good raw converters . To me it means zilch until you have a final high res tiff that has been processed correctly. I'm sorry but i am just a final image junkie on this stuff. I could care less whats going on before it hits the processor. DXO takes none of that into account. Sorry harsh cold reality. This is about Art and science is only a part of the art. Flame suit on. LOL
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    This is about Art and science is only a part of the art. Flame suit on. LOL
    Well, it doesn't HAVE to be a numbers vs. eyes dichotomy. When the perceptual science is good, the metrics correlate very well with subjective experience.

    But the consensus here is that DXO's metrics correlate poorly. This is unfortunate, but it doesn't mean that the whole enterprise is folly. Just DXO's particular approach to it leaves much to be desired.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    This is the 180mm at F5 and it still was not tuned perfectly which yesterday I got it all tuned dead on here it was 9 points off but still not bad. I am going back out and shoot some real images with it. Its really my only concern lens of my set which includes 14-24, 35 1.4 G, 50 1.8G which I have not shot yet, 85 1.4 G and the 180

    For my taste this particular image is the best of all in this thread regarding color, tones and overall look.

  44. #194
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    why I don't pay attention to DXO to be honest. I don't like the approach
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  45. #195
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Okay some more images the 35mm 1.4 G wide open. And yes I drank it all but a very busy background but you folks need to see this stuff.



    another of the same



    Switching gears the 180mm and I'm still on the fence. I fined tuned it better after this so reason i need to get out again with it. But not bad

    ISO 250 wide open in crap overcast light



    This one at 3.2



    Than switching to the 85 1.4 G wide open

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  46. #196
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    For my taste this particular image is the best of all in this thread regarding color, tones and overall look.
    Its the only one with the sun partly out. You need to pay attention to some of my comments as to color I shot all weekend under a cloud. There is no real punch until we hit the sun. Thats with any cam.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Here the sun is out but still pretty diffused.

    14mm


    35mm
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Thats it for now , need to get out and shoot in better light no doubt to evalute this cam better. But its a start
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Guy, what do you think of the colors compared to MF? From what I'm seeing in the photos, it still has the 35mm CMOS look. The dynamic range is very likely real, but one thing I've love about MF and CCD look is the colors. It's very hard to reproduce the look in post processing. It's just a preference.

  50. #200
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    I'll show you in the morning taking them both for a ride. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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