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Thread: Nikon D800 First Blush

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Jack the bottom green is contaminated by the sand reflection light . Notice it's warmer than the top. So we should keep that in mind. I'm not that crazy about using this image so much for a real representation of a color test. I think I will go out in the morning and get something that maybe better and I'll put in my Macbeth chart in the shot. I'm almost thinking the Phase is a little warm. Looking at the front sand is a giveaway on that.
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Eleanor, The blue sky is too funky for my taste in your version the rest looks fine.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Agree, the blue sky needs adjustment...I was curious what Lightroom would give my just by doing a straight WB taken on the chairs. eleanor
    Here's one with sky adjusted a little.


    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    Eleanor, The blue sky is too funky for my taste in your version the rest looks fine.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    24-120mm f/4


    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    This Threat is becoming increasingly interesting.
    Lots to learn. Thanks to all.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Jack the bottom green is contaminated by the sand reflection light . Notice it's warmer than the top. So we should keep that in mind. I'm not that crazy about using this image so much for a real representation of a color test.
    I understand it's reflected light, but the difference between how the phase renders is and how the nikon renders it is pretty huge. Plus the reflecting sand looks warm, so I'm not sure why the base of the building goes greener on the nikon shot - ? And I disagree, I think it is an excellent color test precisely because it is so difficult to render correctly. Color torture test


    Quote Originally Posted by eleanorbrown View Post
    Agree, the blue sky needs adjustment...I was curious what Lightroom would give my just by doing a straight WB taken on the chairs. eleanor
    Here's one with sky adjusted a little.
    Still looks like a brindle green compared to the Phase version brown, at least to my eyes...
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    More the fact we don't have a true definitive color say like a Coke can in it that would be a giveaway
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Maybe something worth trying is setting the color temp for like 5k kelvin and tint the same to just see the difference between the two even though it maybe color off we can see what the difference in the files are and which color bias each one has or more what the Nikon has seems yellow to me overall
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    I do have another test set that I will post with both the Phase with SK 28 lens and the NIkon with the 14-24 and the color checker is in the frames. I will upload the raws. I will just do the full frame shots of each similar framing.

    This is a forum wide test. ROTFLMAO
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Same image in both ACR and Capture NX WB off color checker card. Lifted shadows to match. No Phase file here i need to reshoot a new set. Missing a LCC on the phase file and I have magenta cast since it was a 28XL so its not going to work accurately. Heading out in morning and shoot some more tests.

    But here are the same file in different processors. Actually they look pretty similar

    ACR


    Capture NX
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Here is a link to this Raw to play with.

    https://www.yousendit.com/dl?phi_act...YSs1UjU3czlVag
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    I had this too: The reds look more agressive in ACR/LR4 than NX 2.

    But NX 2 is a pain to use.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    I agree it is really not a fun program to work with. The sky looks more like blue sky in the ACR from what I am seeing and in NX more to the magenta side.

    Uwe love to hear your impressions so far. I need to catch up to your review as well.
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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Skin tones


    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post

    Can anybody show some more skin tone from the D800? Whats your guys feeling about color and skin tones with the D800 - lets say compared to the D700?

    found this, Tom

    image samples at the bottom of the page

    don't know if it's of any help, I guess not, only two of the 'skin' samples are processed from RAW (those with the red dots) and they are taken with some kind of studio lighting


    Google Translate

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Steen View Post



    Sorry, Vivek, no f/1.2 shots, actually never owned a f/1.2 lens ...
    I regret having sold my 50/1.2 AiS. Now, I have the OM 50/1.2 and am thinking of putting it in a Leitax F mount. The lens is delicious, BTW.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I agree it is really not a fun program to work with. The sky looks more like blue sky in the ACR from what I am seeing and in NX more to the magenta side.

    Uwe love to hear your impressions so far. I need to catch up to your review as well.
    Yes, NX isn't very much fun and when the number of files to process grow very large, well, I turn and run....LOL!

    Guy, I am seeing the same thing in the last set of images you posted and also see a bit more saturation in general in the ACR image. I finally got back to a real computer (being on phone/ipad all day yesterday) and had a chance for last few hours to look at and play with all comparative files posted by Guy and tweaking by Elenore and others. From what I see, I completely agree with what's been observed and expressed here regarding differences between Phase and Nikon cameras and/or differences between post processing software.

    In my personal opinion, what's difficult is there is often more than one set of simultaneous variables being looked at, at the same time, so it's hard to ascribe to what is responsible for what changes or differences we see in a comparative set of images. In one case it was Phase/IQ160 with Phase 28mm lens, processed in C1 vs. Nikon D800, with 14-24 lens, processed in NX. Determining which of the many image elements (hues/colors/tones) in a picture is more accurate, may simply change by changing out one of these variables....whether it be the lens, back (camera) or processing software, etc. Narrowing down which singular component(s) are for the most part responsible for what differences are being observed, can be quite important.

    Additionally even if you used a coke can for it's representative colors to determine a standard for accuracy or comparison (even considering just the reds), what's not to say other colors go astray in the process of getting that element (the reds on the coke can) right.

    These comparisons are immensely useful for determining what parameters and settings are needed to be applied to one particular system (camera/back and lens) with its resulting files processed by using a chosen post processing software in order to get as close a representation to a given scene as possible. Yet attempting to determine which system is able to reproduce as many elements accurately as possible vs. another system, would require the number of different variables being used in such a comparison, significantly reduced as so to equalize such a test (so to speak). I realize this is not generally possible, in a practical sense. This is not a criticism, as these tests have been extremely informative and very much appreciated by all, but simply something to think about when analyzing all these differences.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 31st March 2012 at 08:08.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    TOTALLY AGREE. So many variables and also we can only assume as well that the Phase file is correct only because we know the system better but certainly does not mean accurate either. I'm heading out again and we can work on this more but every system will most likely never match another system. Even the glass is diffrent from diffrent countries not to mention the whole design of it as well. I seriously was not kidding this is like comparing a goat to a frog. It's that vastly different .
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    I should add as well be nice to hear of what folks think of the files outside just the color.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    The problem with a Coke can or similar is it's a single color. It may look perfect in both images then you have wonky browns with one and not the other. My point earlier is it appears at first blush to be an out of whack profile issue; some colors fine while at the same time others are wonked -- and in this case it appears Nikon browns are off. And most important, the browns appear off to an extent I would not want to rely on this camera for shooting dark-skinned people until I got a decent profile.
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    I am very surprised (maybe even slightly shocked) by the 24-120mm f/4.





    Full sized images

    http://outbackphoto.smugmug.com/DOPF...0-Field-Tests/
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    I am very surprised (maybe even slightly shocked) by the 24-120mm f/4.
    Hi Uwe . . . shocked by how good it is?
    I find it hard to tell by web shots this size; and your photos are always fine. it's the one think most likely to make me buy the D800 (if the 24-120 works well with it).

    Just this guy you know

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    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Jono,

    The old 24-120mm was not great. So I expected some improvements but it surpassed my expectations.


    I posted a link to the full sized images (see above). The 24-120mm zoom range is ideal for me and I don't care that much about the 14-24mm range but that lens rocks (see Guy's sample (red house).
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    Jono,

    The old 24-120mm was not great. So I expected some improvements but it surpassed my expectations.


    I posted a link to the full sized images (see above). The 24-120mm zoom range is ideal for me and I don't care that much about the 14-24mm range but that lens rocks (see Guy's sample (red house).
    HI Uwe - I've owned the 14-24, and I know how good it is, how heavy it is, and how much I don't use it! Like you the 24-120 range is pivotal for what I do (if I want class primes I'll stick to the M9)

    I'm in China right now, and not downloading full sized samples!

    thanks . . .
    all the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    I am very surprised (maybe even slightly shocked) by the 24-120mm f/4.
    I told you so! n
    ~~~

    Jono,

    It is a very good, even surprisingly good performer. I told this to Uwe last week and he really didn't believe me because the previous version was so poor. But this one is a whole new animal. A little longer physically, but about the same weight, and of course it also has VR. If I had to make any complaint, it is distortions, but they are so easily corrected in post that I find it a trivial concern. The 24-120 is an ideal range for me too, and this lens is a joy to use.

    Still searching for an ideal 18 to 20mm lens though, no luck. The 16-35 is also very good optically, but distorts more, and I don't use wider than 20mm very often at all. The 14-24 is excellent as well, but difficult to filter. Both are large and expensive for the few times I want an 18-20-ish focal. I know the Zeiss is probably the answer, but I would prefer AF and lower cost, so I may just settle for a basic Nikon 18mm or 20mm AF.
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    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    >I told you so!

    Jack, believe me if you did not tell me I would have missed it big time. Thanks. You are much more of a lens gourmet/expert than me :-).
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    The reds are not great in ACR but better in NX2. Too bad I cannot photograph all our Ferraris :-)
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    [QUOTE=ustein;403542]I am very surprised (maybe even slightly shocked) by the 24-120mm f/4.QUOTE]

    My disappointment with the current 24-120 f4 (in the samples I tested) wasn't even the mild-moderate distortion at the wider focal lengths, but was simply the weak performance sharpness wise away from the center of the image at closer focusing subject distances. At moderate and long subject distances such as one might use it as an outdoor walk around lens, it was more than acceptable (fine), especially when appropriate distortion corrects were applied when required. With others opinions on this lens's performance so greatly varied since it's introduction, I wonder if there are extensive differences with different production runs of this lens, much akin to Nikon's 17-35mm f2.8, where differences between early and late samples were dramatic. Interestingly, there has been some talk that for whatever reason, the optical performance of this lens on the D800 is far superior to its use on the D700/D3 (bodies I initially tested various samples of this lens on). Why & how it's hard to say. In any case, just some personal observations.

    Nicely posted samples with this lens Uwe!

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 31st March 2012 at 09:57.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    >Nicely posted samples with this lens Ewe!

    Thanks but still my name is Uwe :-)
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    >Nicely posted samples with this lens Ewe!

    Thanks but still my name is Uwe :-)
    Believe me I know...following you and your site from the very earliest days years ago. It was simply a typo and I caught it prior to even seeing your post repremanding me...LOL! Try typing fast on a miniture cell phone Thanks! UWE!

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Okay got some nice test images between the two systems 2 sets to be exact. Than I ran into a parade, out came the Nikon. Lol

    Try posting everything up later
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Okay got some nice test images between the two systems 2 sets to be exact. Than I ran into a parade, out came the Nikon. Lol

    Try posting everything up later
    Perfect...out shooting and testing and away from a calibrated system anyhow, so something I and I'm sure many others are looking forward to later.

    Well I hope out came the Nikon...I'd think by the time you set up the tech camera, the parade would be long gone...that is unless you asked parade participants to stop, turn and look.....LOL!

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    One of the easier choices to make in life. ROTFLMAO
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    >I told you so!

    Jack, believe me if you did not tell me I would have missed it big time. Thanks. You are much more of a lens gourmet/expert than me :-).
    Ah not really -- I know you also look for and see the exact same things I look for (and see) in lenses. The reality for both of us (and Guy too) is isn't only about resolution, but lots of other factors that mostly relate to the subjects we each like to shoot

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post

    My disappointment with the current 24-120 f4 (in the samples I tested) wasn't even the mild-moderate distortion at the wider focal lengths, but was simply the weak performance sharpness wise away from the center of the image at closer focusing subject distances. At moderate and long subject distances such as one might use it as an outdoor walk around lens, it was more than acceptable (fine), especially when appropriate distortion corrects were applied when required. With others opinions on this lens's performance so greatly varied since it's introduction, I wonder if there are extensive differences with different production runs of this lens, much akin to Nikon's 17-35mm f2.8, where differences between early and late samples were dramatic.
    It's certainly possible there was a production difference, but I will add that I am very impressed with close-up performance on this lens, at least central 2/3rds of frame. In fact, it focuses very close and obtains semi-macro magnifications at very acceptable resolutions. No, it will not replace a dedicated macro, but it is more than just decent for the occasional close-up grab.
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    I told you so! n
    ~~~

    Jono,

    It is a very good, even surprisingly good performer. I told this to Uwe last week and he really didn't believe me because the previous version was so poor. But this one is a whole new animal. A little longer physically, but about the same weight, and of course it also has VR. If I had to make any complaint, it is distortions, but they are so easily corrected in post that I find it a trivial concern. The 24-120 is an ideal range for me too, and this lens is a joy to use.

    Still searching for an ideal 18 to 20mm lens though, no luck. The 16-35 is also very good optically, but distorts more, and I don't use wider than 20mm very often at all. The 14-24 is excellent as well, but difficult to filter. Both are large and expensive for the few times I want an 18-20-ish focal. I know the Zeiss is probably the answer, but I would prefer AF and lower cost, so I may just settle for a basic Nikon 18mm or 20mm AF.

    aaarrrgghhh.... my 24-120 ordered brand new at a great price from Robert White in the UK (no one else has them in stock at any price) has arrived but I HAVE NOTHING TO PUT IT ON and this thread is torture....



  35. #335
    Senior Member eleanorbrown's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Guy, thanks for posting links to the RAWs...they are really really helpful. I'm working (for the Nikon) in Lightroom 4---don't have the Nikon software but from what I'm hearing it's lousy to work with (Nikon's that is). I'm actually liking my results in Lightroom. Just wondering how the same shots would work in the D800e? Read that some who had preordered the "e" version got warning emails from B&H about issues with the files from this version. I've never used a CMOS sensor without an AA filter.
    Thanks again for your links and testing! Eleanor


    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Here is a link to this Raw to play with.

    https://www.yousendit.com/dl?phi_act...YSs1UjU3czlVag

  36. #336
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Yes the E version may just be the wild card here. I never shot a hot rodded CMOS sensor myself but seen some issues . Although the E is not really hot rodded one still has to wonder. I'm going to wait the E version out until I see some results myself. But I will say the e-mails from B&H and others and Nikons warnings are really to cover themselves more than the issue itself. Both of them are worried about returns, lets face it most people buying these may not even know what it truly is to start with and I said this before if Canon/Nikon put out a non AA sensor than they would get tens of thousands of phone call complaints over moire . I said this a year ago and Nikon went ahead and did it, so the are really covering themselves from the occasional moire issues. All sensors have it but the AA does reduce it greatly. Honestly I think it will be fine but again you are going to want great glass in front of it. The sensor will handle almost anything thrown at it but it does come down to limits of the lens.
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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Guy, I agree that it's a case of CYA by Nikon at the moment with the E series, no doubt coupled to the fact that there are likely many more orders for this camera than were initially expected in their 90:10% production plan.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Subscriber Member weinschela's Avatar
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    Arrow Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Leica didn't need to cya re the M8 and M9 lack of AA filter. If I did weddings I might worry about moire but have had M8/9 for 5-6 years and run into moire rarely. Now the 800E is 2x the resolution of the M9 (okay, 2x the number of pixels) so that may be a difference, but I ordered one and am not wringing my hands - other than I don't have it yet.
    Alan

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Guy,

    Your images have been a real eye opener..... at least for me. Your Test files with the 60mm vs 35mm were very telling..... I zeroed in at 100% on the small text at the right hand door and compared the small text on the 'Thank You For Not Smoking' decal. Even with 36MP there really is no comparison. More pixels = more detail. I still have the E on order and only the Nikon gods know when it will show up but I'm in no hurry. I know for sure that I'll never sell my DF or Schneider LS lenses. My Alpa, of course, will always be used for the majority of my images. The Nikon will just be a spare in the bag along with my Zeiss glass.

    I really do appreciate your taking all of this time for testing and sharing.

    Victor

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Guy, I agree that it's a case of CYA by Nikon at the moment with the E series, no doubt coupled to the fact that there are likely many more orders for this camera than were initially expected in their 90:10% production plan.
    What does CYA mean?

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Cover Your ***. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by weinschela View Post
    Leica didn't need to cya re the M8 and M9 lack of AA filter. If I did weddings I might worry about moire but have had M8/9 for 5-6 years and run into moire rarely. Now the 800E is 2x the resolution of the M9 (okay, 2x the number of pixels) so that may be a difference, but I ordered one and am not wringing my hands - other than I don't have it yet.

    Alan big difference in numbers . Leica could handle the maybe what 5 k complaints but Canon/Nikon sell in the hundred of thousands. Numbers are off of course but its the sheer volume they sell at it would be the biggest PR nightmare we could imagine if they got all those complaints without the warning. So in the end it IS the correct path for them to take even though they may lose some sales as people get scared of it they really are protecting themselves . Some of us know better and know what to expect. That be our esteem GetDPI members . LOL

    Almost ready to load more.
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Cover Your ***. LOL
    Thanks!

    If the price drops (800E) it might be tempting. At the moment I do not see the reason behind >500 Euro price difference, other than the aforementioned CYA.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Okay round 2 and things get interesting. LOL

    Back out again with Cambo IQ 160 and the 60mm XL lens reason I am using this lens is for all your benefit since it does not need a LCC when at zero settings not everyone has C1 and wants to run LCC why i bagged the 28mm in this test. So hope that makes sense to everyone. On the Nikon I used the 35 1.4 G again both lenses at F9 . Why a 60mm lens on Phase well in 35mm terms it is equivalent to a 39mm lens on the Nikon. So basically the same but you will notice different framing since we are dealing with 3:2 vs 4:3 framing.

    Okay here is ALL i did to these files brought Phase files in WB to the second square in and Nikon the same thing in ACR and NX2. Only other thing I did was slight balancing of exposure. Now this is all default on everything else like shadows and such. All that can be adjusted to taste. This is basically a color test and the Phase is a full 60 mpx image as well as the Nikon its full 36mpx image. I went by width for framing.

    I included a link that has all 6 images two from each setup and the a shot of the color checker card separately but also included in the sets. Hope this helps.

    First up. All data in images







    Color Checker Images. All these are after WB

    Phase image I could not focus this close. LOL







    Second image set








    Link to the RAWS

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Pardon my spelling . LOL

    Spell check don't work in CS5. ROTFLMAO
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    BTW focus point on first set of image is the church itself.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Just me and mostly because it matches my Phase files better and be nice to look similar but I like the NX blue sky better it matches my Phase C1 files at least in the sky
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Looking at the color chart between ACR and NX the colors are more punchier in ACR as the NX colors looks just a touch more subtle. Now we all see color different so this is what I see. Pretty interesting test.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    I can't wait for mine to arrive. Been waiting 2 weeks now and probably have 3 or 4 more to go. I have a good assortment of lenses to try too. 85 1.4G, 17-35 , 70-200, my 200 prime...
    Bryan

    “You don’t take a photograph, you make it.” — Ansel Adams

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Really like the 85 and 35 1.4 G glass so far


    Couple quick shots done in NX with NO color adjustments but some minor shadow and highlight control.

    All 85mm.





    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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