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Thread: Nikon D800 First Blush

  1. #351
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Guy, two comments:

    1) First is look at the top right of your Phase sky in the second series -- you have magenta which is possibly from no LCC? I stand by what I've said before, folks really need an LCC on P65+/IQ160 up with tech cam capture for most accurate color.

    2) I agree that NX color is significantly better than ACR for the Nikon file, but I am still seeing way better greens (both broader range and ore real) and richer reds in the tech/phase files. But I do like what the D800 delivers net/net/net for a 35 DSLR!

    Edit to third comment: Skins look pretty good in the above! NX may need a couple of points of sat boost...
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  2. #352
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Ah not really -- I know you also look for and see the exact same things I look for (and see) in lenses. The reality for both of us (and Guy too) is isn't only about resolution, but lots of other factors that mostly relate to the subjects we each like to shoot



    It's certainly possible there was a production difference, but I will add that I am very impressed with close-up performance on this lens, at least central 2/3rds of frame. In fact, it focuses very close and obtains semi-macro magnifications at very acceptable resolutions. No, it will not replace a dedicated macro, but it is more than just decent for the occasional close-up grab.
    Putting aside possible production differences for the moment, it was precisely the 25% of each side of the outer frame where performance in the samples tried, fell short for large format prints done as test runs for a client. A number of us independently came to the same conclusion with the same lenses used for testing. The detail in those outer portions of the frame were considerably weak(er). Maybe there is really something to the notion that this lens performs considerably better on the D800 vs. Nikon's 12MP pro bodies (bodies used for testing) and that is what you and Uwe are observing.....possibly due to the D800's sensor design. If more keep making this same observation, it might be worth persuing the reasons why. I'd welcome such improved performance whatever the reasons might be, since a range like 24-120, and having constant aperture of f4 combined with VR all add up to a desirable walk around lens. I'm sure a bit down the road I'll have a chance to retest this lens on a D800 and re-evaluate.

    Guy, just saw you posting of your latest test images. Really looking forward to viewing all of them on a proper system later on this evening.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 31st March 2012 at 15:03.

  3. #353
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    I tested this lens several times it needs no LCC at zero settings . I think I would know that. I'ts not in the first image and not in the color checker. I just more angled to the sun
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Guy, two comments:

    1) First is look at the top right of your Phase sky in the second series -- you have magenta which is possibly from no LCC? I stand by what I've said before, folks really need an LCC on P65+/IQ160 up with tech cam capture for most accurate color.
    Jack..... you are right, though it does depend on the subject matter. I use generic 0, 5, 10 shift both for portrait and landscape LCCs for my 60mm lens especially if my subject matter has very neutral areas. This eliminates having to fool around with this at image time and I have yet to be disappointed with the results.

    Victor

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Yep. I just know from prior experience with the P65+ (same sensor as the IQ160) and tech cams, there were color casts in certain situations. With the lenses longer than 40 they were usually not significant, but still visible in broader areas of even-toned subjects -- like large expanses of sand or concrete -- or skies. But in fairness, I never tested the 60 SK lens on the P65+, so maybe it's some other anomaly...

    (FWIW, if you shoot a LCC frame zeroed and do not correct it, then drag your WB dropper across the LCC you can see the readouts spike up 3-5 points toward magenta in certain areas on that sensor, usually near corners, but also some areas will go a few points green or yellow too. These are subtle enough with smooth transitions they can go un-noticed visually in the gray areas.)
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  6. #356
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    I'll have to test it again towards the sun but it never came up before. So folks I could have some contamination in the Phase sky. I can't be absolutely correct on this so keep that in mind. I have no other lens outside the 28 that would not require a LCC so we just have to use it as reference on color in the top right on that frame. The 1st should be okay as we'll as the color checker but let's maybe ignore the last frame. You obviously can look at detail shadows and everything else. Sorry if this has caused any issue.

    Thanks Jack for pointing it out, it went unnoticed on my end. Just a busy day
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Thanks Jack for pointing it out, it went unnoticed on my end. Just a busy day
    I think it's more about me being so OCD and finding weird stuff in files
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Lol that too. Lol

    That's okay though, I go so fast sometimes I can be dangerous.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    24-120mm f/4





    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Senior Member Antonio Chagin's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Guy, thank you very much for the files, I played around a bit with them in ACR 7. TO get NEF in ACR7 had to converted foist to DNG in ACR 6.7 with 2012 alternative on, that would lower the contrast and get more shadow detail.
    I change image size in PO to match D800.
    As clearly seen PhaseOne has far more detail. Color can be adjusted.

    100%detail. PO left. D800 right.


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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Nice work . Yes it's the micro detail that is a little hard to see until you get the Raws to work on it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Just some quick snaps from yesterday and reason for posting is i had to push the shadows pretty hard to get the hard shadow light opened up from the blazing sun here. Came out pretty good in that respects.





    This one was tough



    Does black pretty well here with good detail. Did not lift shadows

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Oh processed the above in NX2
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Guy are these from the 35mm lens? I hear that lens is first class but read of auto focus issues on review by digilloyd. Eleanor

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    The 85 1.4g

    Have not had any issues focusing the 35 1.4 actually have not noticed any focus shift either. These lenses in G flavor are silent and real fast
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    The 35 1.4 reminds me of a improved Leica R 35 1.4 summilux without the ghosting aberrations at 1.4. Has a great look to it, so far I really like it. I'll go shoot some wide open shots with it this week. I did post a couple earlier a wine glass and menu wide open plus a lemon at 2.8 that I really like the look of it.
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Have you ever had any experience with the 70-200 2.8II? Eleanor


    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    The 35 1.4 reminds me of a improved Leica R 35 1.4 summilux without the ghosting aberrations at 1.4. Has a great look to it, so far I really like it. I'll go shoot some wide open shots with it this week. I did post a couple earlier a wine glass and menu wide open plus a lemon at 2.8 that I really like the look of it.

  18. #368
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    I have downloaded Guy's files (for which BIG thank you!) and Capture NX2 to try and have a comparative look. Unfortunately everyone is totally right about capture NX2, what a total pile of .... in fact, my version, along with updater to get it to version 2.3.1 is so terrible that it 'Cannot Load File' even when that file is a small jpeg, let alone a NEFF file from either D800 or D7000 or indeed any file whatsoever. Nikon support page has no indication as to why. I'm on a mac pro with 16GB of RAM, latest OS and loads of fast disc space...

    This really worries me because if NX2 is the only way to get the best out of D800E files in particular, but is so badly sorted, then it's like buying a Ferrari and being expected to fill the tank with urine.

    So I opened both the Phase and Nikon files in LR4 and bumped up sharpening a bit on the Nikon file. Then I put them in side by side windows and zoomed the Phase file to 1:3 and the D800 to 1:2 and Lo, there doesn't seem to be a great advantage to either.

    However, I am now down to comparing apples to oranges at a pumpkin stand, due to the number of extra variables that not using the best RAW developers introduces...

    If I assume that LR does both files an equal dis-service and that the D800E is worth 25 extra in sharpening and 10 extra in Detail (in LR4 terms) then for prints up to about 40" it might well be a wash.

    However, that conclusion is so flawed with caveats as to be useless!

    Damn NX2!

  19. #369
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Comparing Goats to a Frog. I was not kidding. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  20. #370
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Damn NX2!
    Yup, the major reason for me to avoid Nikon.

  21. #371
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    .... Unfortunately everyone is totally right about capture NX2, what a total pile of .... in fact, my version, along with updater to get it to version 2.3.1 is so terrible that it 'Cannot Load File' even when that file is a small jpeg, let alone a NEFF file from either D800 or D7000 or indeed any file whatsoever. Nikon support page has no indication as to why. I'm on a mac pro with 16GB of RAM, latest OS and loads of fast disc space...

    This really worries me because if NX2 is the only way to get the best out of D800E files in particular, but is so badly sorted, then it's like buying a Ferrari and being expected to fill the tank with urine.

    However, that conclusion is so flawed with caveats as to be useless!

    Damn NX2!
    FWIW in the conversation I have never felt NX or NX2 is the best and only way to get the most out of Nikon files and will be posting some samples of Guys images to provide proof. BTW, thanks so much Guy for allowing us to look at and work with these files.

    Likewise Tashley I have been wrestling for the last few days with Nikon Tech support on the exact same issue you are experiencing. I gave up on Nikon software years ago other than Capture Control Pro which is a really good tethering program for those who need it. But the discussion recently and with new cameras picked my interest and like you downloaded the newest NX2 and PAID for the update to my older NX program. I have a Mac Pro, 19 GB of RAM running OS 10.6.8 and every file I try to open be it jpg, tif or nef I receive the same error message as you, cannot load file XXX. I also tried this on my MBP running 8GB of Ram same OS exactly and got the exact same errors. Yesterday morning I uninstalled everything, then went in under the hood and deleted every folder, file, plist what have you that had Nikon on the label, then reinstalled only NX2. All to no avail. At one point the tech support people told me that if the same computer had ever done the trial of NX2 before it would not work again even with a license such as my case unless all previous versions of NX had been removed. NOT!!

    Thus far Nikon Tech support has been less than worthless and this with no less than 5 phone calls on Friday alone. At this point I feel like I have been robbed, holding out no hope for a cure from this awful software program.

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by routlaw View Post
    FWIW in the conversation I have never felt NX or NX2 is the best and only way to get the most out of Nikon files and will be posting some samples of Guys images to provide proof. BTW, thanks so much Guy for allowing us to look at and work with these files.

    Likewise Tashley I have been wrestling for the last few days with Nikon Tech support on the exact same issue you are experiencing. I gave up on Nikon software years ago other than Capture Control Pro which is a really good tethering program for those who need it. But the discussion recently and with new cameras picked my interest and like you downloaded the newest NX2 and PAID for the update to my older NX program. I have a Mac Pro, 19 GB of RAM running OS 10.6.8 and every file I try to open be it jpg, tif or nef I receive the same error message as you, cannot load file XXX. I also tried this on my MBP running 8GB of Ram same OS exactly and got the exact same errors. Yesterday morning I uninstalled everything, then went in under the hood and deleted every folder, file, plist what have you that had Nikon on the label, then reinstalled only NX2. All to no avail. At one point the tech support people told me that if the same computer had ever done the trial of NX2 before it would not work again even with a license such as my case unless all previous versions of NX had been removed. NOT!!

    Thus far Nikon Tech support has been less than worthless and this with no less than 5 phone calls on Friday alone. At this point I feel like I have been robbed, holding out no hope for a cure from this awful software program.
    How frustrating: I really feel for you. I have just downloaded and installed the exact same files onto my much more humbly specified MBPro and it is working fine - but of course that's not the machine on which I want to use the files... Grrr.

    If the version that ships with my D800E won't work and if I feel that without it I can't get the best from the files, I'll just return the camera and kick up a stink. Honestly, if a company can't make software that installs and works, let alone with a decent UI, then I don't trust the rest of what they do...

  23. #373
    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Looking at the raw files Guy provided for us to download something immediately looked awry compared to what I normally get with my D4 and D3 for that matter. One of the give aways in the ACR conversion was the overly cyanish blue sky and color pollution in the asphalt pavement compared to what I get with the D4 especially, being either too red or cool. The C1 file from the IQ160 struck me as being a bit too warm, albeit with subjectively the most pleasing or likable color over all compared to either of the Nikon files.

    My hunch was that one important item was overlooked during those Nikon conversions in ACR and sure enough that was it. Effectively in the camera icon module (ACR) where the profile window exist, by clicking on this and instead of leaving the Adobe Standard as the profile conversion, choose one of the Camera profiles instead and in this case I kept it simple and straightforward by choosing the Camera Standard. Suffice it to say the differences are NOT subtle but more importantly this allows you to use the built in Nikon camera profiles as it was meant to be in lieu of any custom built profile such as X-Rite Passports. It matters not whether you choose 2012 or 2010 process the file will look the same assuming you do not mess with the controls for each one and in this case kept the adjustments at the defaults of ACR in all 3 of them. Once opening the files I left them as is with the exception of the store front at Easy Street which I did adjust the higlights in levels about 5-10 pts to more closely match the values in Guys rendition of NX2.

    Here are the samples, all from ACR using Camera Standard instead of Adobe Standard, along with the screen capture of the camera profile window in ACR 6.7 PS CS 5.

    Hopefully this will help all who are struggling with NX2 and doubtful about LR/ACR conversions.

    Rob
    Last edited by routlaw; 23rd May 2015 at 10:12.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Anyone have impressions of the quality of NX2's auto later chromatic aberration tool, and axial chromatic aberration tool?

    I did not know software correction of the latter was even possible.

    Just playing with NX2 now. Files look good. The interface is annoying. It's also very, very slow. I'm running it on an 8-core mac with 12 gigs of ram. It seems to scale all operation to all processors, but still takes several seconds for adjustments that Photoshop / ACR do instantly. Could this be a configuration issue?

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    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by routlaw View Post
    FWIW in the conversation I have never felt NX or NX2 is the best and only way to get the most out of Nikon files and will be posting some samples of Guys images to provide proof. BTW, thanks so much Guy for allowing us to look at and work with these files.

    Likewise Tashley I have been wrestling for the last few days with Nikon Tech support on the exact same issue you are experiencing. I gave up on Nikon software years ago other than Capture Control Pro which is a really good tethering program for those who need it. But the discussion recently and with new cameras picked my interest and like you downloaded the newest NX2 and PAID for the update to my older NX program. I have a Mac Pro, 19 GB of RAM running OS 10.6.8 and every file I try to open be it jpg, tif or nef I receive the same error message as you, cannot load file XXX. I also tried this on my MBP running 8GB of Ram same OS exactly and got the exact same errors. Yesterday morning I uninstalled everything, then went in under the hood and deleted every folder, file, plist what have you that had Nikon on the label, then reinstalled only NX2. All to no avail. At one point the tech support people told me that if the same computer had ever done the trial of NX2 before it would not work again even with a license such as my case unless all previous versions of NX had been removed. NOT!!

    Thus far Nikon Tech support has been less than worthless and this with no less than 5 phone calls on Friday alone. At this point I feel like I have been robbed, holding out no hope for a cure from this awful software program.
    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    I have downloaded Guy's files (for which BIG thank you!) and Capture NX2 to try and have a comparative look. Unfortunately everyone is totally right about capture NX2, what a total pile of .... in fact, my version, along with updater to get it to version 2.3.1 is so terrible that it 'Cannot Load File' even when that file is a small jpeg, let alone a NEFF file from either D800 or D7000 or indeed any file whatsoever. Nikon support page has no indication as to why. I'm on a mac pro with 16GB of RAM, latest OS and loads of fast disc space...

    This really worries me because if NX2 is the only way to get the best out of D800E files in particular, but is so badly sorted, then it's like buying a Ferrari and being expected to fill the tank with urine.

    So I opened both the Phase and Nikon files in LR4 and bumped up sharpening a bit on the Nikon file. Then I put them in side by side windows and zoomed the Phase file to 1:3 and the D800 to 1:2 and Lo, there doesn't seem to be a great advantage to either.

    However, I am now down to comparing apples to oranges at a pumpkin stand, due to the number of extra variables that not using the best RAW developers introduces...

    If I assume that LR does both files an equal dis-service and that the D800E is worth 25 extra in sharpening and 10 extra in Detail (in LR4 terms) then for prints up to about 40" it might well be a wash.

    However, that conclusion is so flawed with caveats as to be useless!

    Damn NX2!
    Guys, I am using Capture NX's last version on a Mac Pro with Mac OS X 10.7.3 and 24 GB Ram, and haven't any of the problems you report. I hope Nikon will come through for you, and soon
    Vieri Bottazzini
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  26. #376
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Just a couple of quick footnotes about gray or WB. I currently own some half dozen different versions of the X-Rite color check charts in a variety of sizes. Non of them match precisely and non of the gray patches are exactly even in their RGB values. I have measured every one with my i1 Photo Pro, but generally the 3rd from the left on the 24 patch chart has been slightly more accurate (for me) than the rest and so I used this patch for WB instead of the 2nd patch. Comparing the 2nd and 3rd patch on each of these 3 images rendered a WB about 100 K apart with the tint being very close at only a pt or two different. Using the WB "AS SHOT" in ACR rendered a 5050/+8 while the 3rd patch was closer to 4950/+14 give or take a smidge depending upon where the eyedropper tool was positioned.

    At the risk of repeating myself for those wishing to obtain the most accurate WB the best card I have found is Robin Myers Imaging plastic gray card that measures about 160, 160, 160 with i1Photo. The beauty of these is they are indestructible being made of some high tech plastic very light weight, water proof et al. Highly recommended gray balance card for in the field or studio!!

    Hopefully this helps.

    Rob

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    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    ...

    Honestly, if a company can't make software that installs and works, let alone with a decent UI, then I don't trust the rest of what they do...
    Tim, I feel you - Capture has one of the worse interfaces of any RAW processors I have ever tried and used (at least it installs on my machine, and it works pretty fast, too). However, Nikon has nothing to do with it (except choosing the developers, probably badly), those which products you don't want to trust are the Nik guys (ColorEfex, SilverPro, etc)
    Vieri Bottazzini
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by routlaw View Post
    Effectively in the camera icon module (ACR) where the profile window exist, by clicking on this and instead of leaving the Adobe Standard as the profile conversion, choose one of the Camera profiles instead and in this case I kept it simple and straightforward by choosing the Camera Standard. Suffice it to say the differences are NOT subtle but more importantly this allows you to use the built in Nikon camera profiles as it was meant to be in lieu of any custom built profile such as X-Rite Passports.
    Rob
    First of all thank you for all of your very informative and helpful posts regarding the 800. Can you please clarify the above?...... are you saying that ACR has a built in profile for the 800 that was supplied by Nikon? Its a big improvement.... just very curious.

    Victor

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    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    >along with updater to get it to version 2.3.1 is so terrible that it 'Cannot Load File' even when that file is a small jpeg, let alone a NEFF file from either D800 or D7000 or indeed any file whatsoever. Nikon support page has no indication as to why. I'm on a mac pro with 16GB of RAM, latest OS and loads of fast disc space...

    I had exactly the same issues. Switched NX2 to 32 bit and all was fine.
    Uwe Steinmueller
    -------------------

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    All expressed above regarding Capture is why I continually avoid using it at almost all costs. Sure if I have a particular file where there is some aspect where running it through Capture provides some distinct advantage, I"ll hold my nose and proceed...otherwise I'll accept certain small compromises and run large # of Raw files through something else.

    You think the current version is bad now...some here should have been around using it in the earliest days when it wad first released. It was truly a nightmare and Nikon has had all these qqqyears of feedback requesting the program match the quality of their cameras. To their credit, they did make major upgrades to the prrogram, rendering it from unusable and near worthlessness to it"s present incarnation.

    Dave (D&A)

  31. #381
    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    First of all thank you for all of your very informative and helpful posts regarding the 800. Can you please clarify the above?...... are you saying that ACR has a built in profile for the 800 that was supplied by Nikon? Its a big improvement.... just very curious.

    Victor
    Yes its a huge improvement and perceptually to me the best of all the conversions including the rendition from C1 with IQ180 which really is too warm IMHO. The NX2 conversion looked too clinical and anemic for my taste. This is why I have been emphatic for years now that you don't need NX/NX2 for the best raw file conversions.

    Too clarify, its really hard to answer your question with absolute certainty but this would be my guess that these profiles are straight out of the camera and identical from within the menu system of the camera. They match 100% verbatim the menu selection.


    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    >along with updater to get it to version 2.3.1 is so terrible that it 'Cannot Load File' even when that file is a small jpeg, let alone a NEFF file from either D800 or D7000 or indeed any file whatsoever. Nikon support page has no indication as to why. I'm on a mac pro with 16GB of RAM, latest OS and loads of fast disc space...

    I had exactly the same issues. Switched NX2 to 32 bit and all was fine.
    Thanks Uwe, that did it. Had not realized these latest versions of NX2 had gone to 64 bit mode or maybe they haven't and are just trying to under a 64 bit OS. It was my understanding on the Mac platform it was still a 32 bit program.

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    All expressed above regarding Capture is why I continually avoid using it at almost all costs. Sure if I have a particular file where there is some aspect where running it through Capture provides some distinct advantage, I"ll hold my nose and proceed...otherwise I'll accept certain small compromises and run large # of Raw files through something else.

    You think the current version is bad now...some here should have been around using it in the earliest days when it wad first released. It was truly a nightmare and Nikon has had all these qqqyears of feedback requesting the program match the quality of their cameras. To their credit, they did make major upgrades to the prrogram, rendering it from unusable and near worthlessness to it"s present incarnation.

    Dave (D&A)
    Dave I know this pain all too well, in fact I bought the first D1 classic in the region where I live and remember paying $500 for the first iteration of Nikon Capture. Had to be the worse $500 I have ever spent in photography and then there were the upgrades. Its astonishing to this very day Nikon makes such great cameras but produces some of the worst software (Capture Control excluded) imaginable. They should be paying us to beta test this stuff rather than trying to sell it on the open market.

    Regardless, hold your nose no longer and use the method I just described and I think you will be thrilled with the results. That way you'll have both hands now to operate the keyboard.

  32. #382
    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    >in fact I bought the first D1 classic in the region where I live and remember paying $500 for the first iteration of Nikon Capture. Had to be the worse $500 I have ever spent in photography and then there were the upgrades.

    Remember this too. Was shocking with the D1 that you could shoot Raw and nothing in the box could open it.
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  33. #383
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    OK now I processed Guy's first files: one in C1 and export to downsized tiff so as to match the nikon file but otherwise with C1 defaults, the other with the Nikon file processed in Capture NX2 again with defaults, then exported to tiff. I then imported both into LR and looked at them side by side.

    The Phase file wins by a bit at 100% view in the central regions and appears to do rather better at the edges but I think this is a DOF issue: the railings on the left and the near bushes on the right are rendered similarly in both, the further background (trees, roof) on both sides are notably better in the Phase file.

    At 50% view on screen it really is a wash, assuming I am right about the DOF (which I'm probably not!) and excluding issues of colour balance.

    I also bumped up the exposure and blacks sliders the whole way (LR4) and though this is a mad test, it did show that there is less noise in the nikon file (a lot less) and slightly more detail in the C1 file.

    So... I am thinking that for me at least, if I need an enlargement of less than 40" on the long, and if I choose the best glass, then the D800 (and hopefully especially the E) will be just as useful in principal.... as an IQ160. I'll have to do my own IQ180 comparisons. And then there's the issue of colour.... and the fact that this was on a laptop screen!

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    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    >ANd then there's the issue of color.

    For some it is the price too :-)
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    >ANd then there's the issue of color.

    For some it is the price too :-)
    For me it's the colour - I've yet to see any photos taken in late evening light (always my argument with Nikon colour). You can take as many colour cards as you like in normal daylight . . . but if I take shots in the evening (or in the early morning) I don't want neutral grey . . . I want to see what I saw!

    So - can anyone convince me that things have changed?

    all the best
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    >ANd then there's the issue of color.

    For some it is the price too :-)

    Uwe, stop being so practical!

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Uwe, stop being so practical!
    I am not but my bank is :-)

    Actually a main reason is that I want the flexibility of the DSLR (even better if a small mirrorless camera would do).
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    For me it's the colour - I've yet to see any photos taken in late evening light (always my argument with Nikon colour). You can take as many colour cards as you like in normal daylight . . . but if I take shots in the evening (or in the early morning) I don't want neutral grey . . . I want to see what I saw!

    So - can anyone convince me that things have changed?

    all the best
    Jono
    I never saw that with my D7000 Jono but your colour vision is better than mine...

    Still in China?

  39. #389
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    I am not but my bank is :-)

    Actually a main reason is that I want the flexibility of the DSLR (even better if a small mirrorless camera would do).
    Have you tried a NEX7 with Leica Noctilux F1?

    Rather sexy...

  40. #390
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by routlaw View Post
    Looking at the raw files Guy provided for us to download something immediately looked awry compared to what I normally get with my D4 and D3 for that matter. One of the give aways in the ACR conversion was the overly cyanish blue sky and color pollution in the asphalt pavement compared to what I get with the D4 especially, being either too red or cool. The C1 file from the IQ160 struck me as being a bit too warm, albeit with subjectively the most pleasing or likable color over all compared to either of the Nikon files.

    My hunch was that one important item was overlooked during those Nikon conversions in ACR and sure enough that was it. Effectively in the camera icon module (ACR) where the profile window exist, by clicking on this and instead of leaving the Adobe Standard as the profile conversion, choose one of the Camera profiles instead and in this case I kept it simple and straightforward by choosing the Camera Standard. Suffice it to say the differences are NOT subtle but more importantly this allows you to use the built in Nikon camera profiles as it was meant to be in lieu of any custom built profile such as X-Rite Passports. It matters not whether you choose 2012 or 2010 process the file will look the same assuming you do not mess with the controls for each one and in this case kept the adjustments at the defaults of ACR in all 3 of them. Once opening the files I left them as is with the exception of the store front at Easy Street which I did adjust the higlights in levels about 5-10 pts to more closely match the values in Guys rendition of NX2.

    Here are the samples, all from ACR using Camera Standard instead of Adobe Standard, along with the screen capture of the camera profile window in ACR 6.7 PS CS 5.

    Hopefully this will help all who are struggling with NX2 and doubtful about LR/ACR conversions.

    Rob
    Rob excellent catch. I'm going to go back and look at this. I was really wondering about the church shot . Going to look at Glory Bees too

    Btw on C1 with my IQ 160 my normal practice is to drop the kelvin temp about 300 to 400 to cool it down. Being a test I did not want to do that but yes it is warm. On testing I never want to add those variables in and one big reason I upload the raws so folks can do what pleases them.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    I never saw that with my D7000 Jono but your colour vision is better than mine...

    Still in China?
    Just got back - left Hangzhou at 1 this afternoon, home by 10 tonight (good eh!) Just a little matter of an 8 hour time difference. Fiddled with photos for the whole flight, and now it's time for bed (seem to have missed a night somewhere).

    Just this guy you know

  42. #392
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    I knew this forum could tame this beast together. Great work everyone. As I mentioned in the beginning and glad I posted Raws was I rarely if ever use ACR. And NX2 is just from Mars. Lol

    Hopefully waiting for C1 and D 800 support soon. I keep hearing whispers of Version 7 too.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    >Have you tried a NEX7 with Leica Noctilux F1?

    I used the NEX-7 with the Leica 50mm Cron. Very nice results but I am not a fan of manual focus if shooting handheld.
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    Pushing and Pulling the files

    First off, Guy, thanks so much for all your work in putting this comparison together and providing the raw files to work with. It's been very enlightening.

    I was curious how far I could push and pull these files in both Lightroom 4 and Capture One 6.3.5 and thought it would be interesting for others to see how the files look. So, first off showing a crop of +2.5 in C1 and Lightroom. To even the playing field I've turned off all noise reduction on both apps.

    First the IQ160 file as processed in C1 (+2.5):



    Now the IQ160 file via Lightroom 4 (+2.5):



    Ok, now the D800 file via Lightroom 4 (+2.5):



    Ok, now with +5 - this is Lightroom 4 only:

    IQ160 (+5.0):



    D800 (+5.0):



    And now the flip side of the coin. Pulling the images by -5, showing one of the brighter regions in these crops:

    IQ160 (-5.0):



    D800 (-5.0):



    Pretty Interesting!
    Last edited by Greg Seitz; 1st April 2012 at 16:49.

  45. #395
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Rob excellent catch. I'm going to go back and look at this. I was really wondering about the church shot . Going to look at Glory Bees too

    Btw on C1 with my IQ 160 my normal practice is to drop the kelvin temp about 300 to 400 to cool it down. Being a test I did not want to do that but yes it is warm. On testing I never want to add those variables in and one big reason I upload the raws so folks can do what pleases them.
    Its curious I just went back to the IQ 160 image of the Nursery building and opened it in PS5/ACR 6.7 also, did a quick gray balance on the 3rd from right gray patch using Adobe Standard camera profile. Its important to note for those using Nikons the other profiles were NOT made available for this camera which does imply LR/ACR is deriving those straight from the camera in this case the D800.

    Anyway using LR 4 I obtained dramatically different results than you got with C1 for the IQ160 and I suspect more accurate color to boot. The more I looked at the Phase files and conversions the redder/warmer they appeared. Once again the black asphalt driveway being overdriven in red vs a neutral black, and the white stucco building with some warm tint as well. Notice how neutral both appear in the ACR 6.7 rendition. The foreground gravel also looks more believable to me not being so reddish. Ok this is the bad news, the good news for phase owners is this file trounces the D800, sorry not even close the IQ 160 being substantially much better and more so than I would have guessed… and it should.

    Here is ACR rendition.

    Rob
    Last edited by routlaw; 23rd May 2015 at 10:12.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by routlaw View Post

    Dave I know this pain all too well, in fact I bought the first D1 classic in the region where I live and remember paying $500 for the first iteration of Nikon Capture. Had to be the worse $500 I have ever spent in photography and then there were the upgrades. Its astonishing to this very day Nikon makes such great cameras but produces some of the worst software (Capture Control excluded) imaginable. They should be paying us to beta test this stuff rather than trying to sell it on the open market.

    Regardless, hold your nose no longer and use the method I just described and I think you will be thrilled with the results. That way you'll have both hands now to operate the keyboard.
    Thanks for your empathy. You and I both (and I'm sure many others) went through the original D1 fiasco along with Nikon offering nirvana with the $500 purchase of the original Capture. That wasn't the worse money I ever spent. That prize goes for the repeated $$ spend on subsequent Capture upgrades that never ever came close to the hype in Nikon's pre release literature and statements and promised fixes. Unless there is a specific file that gains something from running through Capture that can't be duplicated with any other converter, I basically left Capture a long time ago for ACR....and with recent camera and lens profiles getting better and better, it reconfirms that decision.

    I've always believed that Capture had real potential if only Nikon could select software developers that had the competency to understand the needs of not just those that have the time to run through a handful of RAW NEFS, but address the concerns of the working pro who has a multitude of jobs requiring both speed and efficiency of their RAW converter in handling complex tasks and large numbers of files simultaneously. I think that even if Capture's cost was double of what it is now, there would be sufficient #'s who would be willing to pay, if the software was adequately capable of achieving these stated goals.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 1st April 2012 at 21:18.

  47. #397
    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Maybe that the D800 helps Nikon finally understand the need to do much better with NX2. Fingers crossed :-)
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  48. #398
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    Maybe that the D800 helps Nikon finally understand the need to do much better with NX2. Fingers crossed :-)
    Uwe, you may be right, but most feel Nikon should have realized that many generations ago of Nikon pro level cameras. It's been more than a decade that we have been explaning to Nikon some of the critical needs that aren't being met by Capture, so it's hard to believe that all of a sudden now it's going to change. This is just a gut feeling but I think Nikon feels as a whole that Nikon users are only willing to pay up to a certain amount of $$ for Capture and so investment in it is hampered by that notion. I've always felt that there should have been two different versions of Capture, sort of like PS Elements and full blown Photoshop /Lightroom. This way they could do the pro level Capture correctly by investing in it's proper development and then charge accordingly.

    Once again I'm looking forward to getting back this evening to a real computer and catch up on examining/downloading all of today's posted files and comparisons.

    Dave (D&A)

  49. #399
    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    I try to be optimistic :-)
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Thanks!

    If the price drops (800E) it might be tempting. At the moment I do not see the reason behind >500 Euro price difference, other than the aforementioned CYA.
    Your kidding right ? The D800/E are amazing cameras at an amazing price. I don't see how anyone can complain about Nikon's pricing on this camera.

    The stupid Canon 5D Mark III is $3500 US and it simply fixes the bugs the Mark II had.

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