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Nikon D800 First Blush

bensonga

Well-known member
Thanks for posting so many links to Raw files for us to play with!

I downloaded, processed (with ACR and PS CS5) and printed this one last night on 13x19 paper and was just amazed at the detail in the print.

I've never seen anything this good from a 35mm DSLR.

Gary

Link to the RAW file

80A_0062_85mm_G_iso100_12bit.NEF

click for native sized jpeg (12.1 Mb)


Nikon D800 • AF-S Nikkor 1.4/85mm G • 12 bit 1/320 sec. at f/8 ISO 100 • Lightroom 4
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Okay I am getting a very weird pattern in ACR at 100 percent which I am not getting in Nikon Capture. I'm on hold with comparisons until I get everything worked out. I will say with a little love you can make these files look damn good.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Be helpful since I don't know ACR what sharpening settings folks are using. I hit a point where it looks like a de bayering artifact at 100 percent.
 

routlaw

Member
Be helpful since I don't know ACR what sharpening settings folks are using. I hit a point where it looks like a de bayering artifact at 100 percent.
Guy my methods are quite a bit different so take the following FWIW, but I turn off all USM with the converters (ACR/LR) preferring to handle this in post production instead and feel like I obtain better results.

Usually I will do 2 to 3 passes with different settings for each, but a typical scenario might include the following if you care to try, but feel free to experiment with the values:

1. 75/1.0 for amount and radius
2. 100/.2 for amount and radius
3. option + cmd + 1 to create a feathered selection, reverse the selection then hide: 400/.2 for amount and radius

I would not use this for people shots but it works fine for most landscapes and architectural work with lots of detail and texture.

Oh yeah I forgot, this is all done on a Luminosity layer too. Thanks Paul for reminding me. Some areas might get masked out as well, ie clear blue skies etc.
 
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What are people's general thoughts on sharpening in Raw Processor vs. Photoshop?

My raw experience is 100% with ACR (and will happily be looking for alternatives, since there are many things I don't love about it).

I find sharpening in acr quickly emphasizes noise and often very strange faux textures (maybe something akin to what Guy describes).

In PS I generally put my sharpening on a layer, with luminosity blending, and with the sliders fading out the highlights and shadows. Good files can tolerate a high degree of sharpening with this mehthod before noise or artifacts intrude.

But I imagine I might just be misusing the features in ACR. Is it supposed to sharpen by actual deconvolution? I've heard this as a rumor but the results make me suspicious.
 
Guy and Paul. I usually apply this settings in ACR and then finish it up with 6 degrees High Pass, Soft Light mode in PS.
For the EOS 5DMKII I have other settings. ACH
 
What advantages are there to sharpening in the raw processor vs. PS? Does it offer processing ability that is unique, or is it a workflow convenience?
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Thanks will do. I am a little embarrassed here since I really am good at this but my expertise is in C1 and I have rarely ever used ACR ever.

I sharpen usually in C1 than sometimes I will also do some in CS5 for print. I like to do a base level in the raw converter than depending on use apply some in CS5.

I have shot a comparison against my IQ 160 back this morning and I want to be comfortable with what I am doing with the Nikon files first since I don't want to mislead any outcome. This comparison is like comparing a goat to a frog I have 3 ways to actually do it that makes some sense.
 

jlancasterd

Active member
Thanks Guys. What I've seen so far has been plenty good enough to persuade me to order a D800 – I'd been holding off thinking I might go for the 800E, but I can't see any increase in sharpness above what you are getting with the standard camera being of much additional value for the type of work I do, and I can do without the risk of moire and altered colour values with the 800E mentioned in the Nikon blurb. The cost saving will be useful too…

My dealer (Mark Duncalf at Cambrian Photography, in North Wales) advises that it he doesn't expect to be able to get a regular supply of D800s before the end of April. So the demand must be very large - he got me an M9 only 5 days after the launch back in 2009, so he's no slouch…

I'll be using Lightroom 4 as my developer for Raw images when I do get the camera - I'm using it with my D700 and am happy with the results
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Well the long awaited can it smoke a MF back. Answer NO not even on Sunday and still say your prayers. Its damn good but Jack, Bob and I think it needs better profiles at least in ACR and I was not seeing it in Capture NX2 either at least compared to C1 and Phase files . Also with the help of Jack and Bob we kind of figured out what looks best for this file in ACR as far as sharpening without going crazy and keeping things on a neutral path. Variables yes plenty this is a nightmare of a test and honestly I could do this three distinct ways but after the first test I think we know what is going one enough to answer the silly question can it beat a MF back. Well certainly not my IQ 160 nor will it beat any 40 mpx sensor either if one is using a tech came with some of the best lenses made in the world on it and i just happen to have one of those a Schneider 60mm XL lens and yes twice the price of the D800. This is serious business here and honestly nothing is going to touch a lens of this caliber except maybe a IQ 180. LOL

So gear on Hand lets get this out of the way Phase One IQ 160 60 mpx full frame back, Cambo AE tech cam and a Schneider 60mm XL lens mounted on a RRS tripod with a Arca Swiss cube , trust me you need a truck to make this vibrate. Nikon D800 with Nikon 35mm 1.4 G lens both lens stopped down to F9 and I leveled the ISO field by using the Nikons base ISO 100 the Phase is 50 . I used 100 for both cams . Nikon on RRS tripod with cube mirror lock up with 3 second delay. there is a way to do this ( explain later)

Okay many ways to do this test first I could the same width and we need to remember different aspect ratios of 4:3 for Phase and 3:2 for Nikon. Makes it tough. So what I did was actually shoot two Phhase files one pulled the camera back to estimate a crop 40 mpx sensor which is what I di here in this first test which what I will do is process normally the full file select the aspect ratio of the Nikon which comes up pretty dang close to being the same and any advantage Nikon got it. I also shot exactly the same width as well butI may do that later.

Okay here we go. I marked each file for clarity.

First up is a wider shot than normal on the Phase.



Okay than I cropped into the frame above to the exact dimensions of the Nikon . In another words the image size of 7360 x 4912 at 300 DPI which is the exact file size of a D800 file



Okay here is the Nikon Full frame image processed in ACR and it got the best treatment I could muster.




Okay I will say this right out front the advantage on the variables went in Nikons favor as you can realize how hard this is to truly compare apples to apples which would never happen given the formats but end of day we get a good idea of what the Nikon can do and to me as a new owner i am really pleased so far. Jack, Bob and I all think better profiles are needed for color. Its new they will come and we can all maybe try profiling as well to fine tune. BTW This is nit picking stuff and most will ignore everything I just said.

Okay the crops and yea even cropping in to the Nikon mpx the tech cam and Schneider does win the battle and frankly it better damn well win. Its the best you can buy and believe me if your a MF shooter you know the costs of getting in this ball park. I know this thread will be passed around the forums and I want to be clear the Nikon is very good and truthfully the best in its league. I am certainly keeping it that is a fact.

Okay the crops. Nikon First Phase is the second image don't confuse them. LOL





I'm adding in to this little mini review here and post a Full Frame Phase 60 mpx image and a Full frame Nikon. Now these two images are the same width dimension so more a 40 vs 60 mpx comparison just to give you a idea on how another 20 mpx adds to the power of MF. We simply cannot avoid this but I am giving Nikon a lot of credit for getting close and nothing in 35mm to date is doing that.

Phase file



Nikon File



Phase Crop at 60 mpx which will obviously be tighter now



Nikon Crop at 36mpx




So now you get a better idea of how all these MPX correlate with each other
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
BTW the DR is a little better on the Phase I lifted the shadows some on the Nikon. Now my disclaimer this was all processed with ACR and color and such maybe better in Nikon CaptureNX2 . I downloaded it this morning and hated it out of the gate. LOL

I'm a devoted C1 junkie sorry folks but this is just some preliminary stuff and trying to make the Nikon file look good the phase file is straight out of C1 except exposure control. Honestly in this area Phase has the clear cut advantage as the software is clearly tuned to its backs.. So again so many varibles here to shake a stick at.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Now this is about as far as you can push the Nikon without getting halos and over sharpening. The Phase file I can still go a long way. Something to be said for bigger sensors and this format. So please ignore the hype out there I have been looking around and its a little scary the bad info. End of day the new Nikon is a winner in a lot of ways and will smoke my Phase just in the ISO dept alone so many benefits to 35mm as well as there is in MF. We can co exist side by side and make it a peaceful world. ROTFLMAO

I had to get my little ribbing in. LOL

Have fun and Happy shooting
 
I was expecting a more dramatic difference than that. Would be really interesting to see how the differences show up in prints, and what differences show up in what sizes.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Need to remember this is what I cropped into not the whole 60 mpx of the same framing as the Nikon. Ill post that tommorrow . I shot exactly the same framing on both also.
 

manouch shirzad

Workshop & Subscriber Member
Thanks Guy, you are doing a great job. I need a new camera and all the information you are giving us is very helpful.
_______
Manouch
 
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