Nikon D800 First Blush

[Lars]

Thanks, Vivek, it's been a pleasure :salute:

I am impressed by this new camera, but at the same time I think it is important to mention that I do find it rather difficult to handhold.

Not a minor problem in my opinion (though of course it's me being the problem, not the camera).

Any camera shake seems to be revealed by this high resolution and so far I have trashed a lot of captures because of that.

I'm doing better with my F3 cameras ...

Have you translated this to required shutter speeds?

 

[tashley]

Can I just point out that there is exactly the same average amount, per lens, of shake on a full frame sensor regardless of resolution so it doesn't make real sense to suddenly be trashing a higher proportion of shots. All that's happening is that at a pixel level the shake is being revealed by that extra resolution. But if you downsize the frame to the same resolution as your 'old camera that didn't show the shake so much', either by looking at lower zoom on screen, by downresing, or by printing to the same size you used to print, you won't see an increase in the number of shakey shots at all...

So what a higher res camera means is that for those shots where your really get your technique right, you get a 'better' file. For everything else, you are actually no worse off.

 

[GrahamWelland]

Well, so long as the edge contrast remains comparable with the lower resolution originals. Your down-res algorithm may produce edges with lower contrast from the softer hi-res file if there are tones rendered between what should be sharp edges.

But generally your point about shake rendering at the same absolute size holds true. It's pixel peeping that gets you. :thumbs:

 

[Steen]

Tim, I guess Graham is right, it's probably me being an incurable pixel peeper

 

[Steen]

Lars, I haven't tested where my approximate limit is with regards to handholding such a high resolution camera.

But I think I have managed to ruin captures with camera shake even by using shutter speeds 3 times the focal length.

I'm aware that I'm an old dog and I no longer have a steady hand, but I'm curious to hear other D800 shooters experiences with this ?

 

[Vivek]

Steen, Excellent point about the shake ruining the details. Having become an exclusive live view shooter, I would ask you to try the live view. If you can capture the details you "see" then that is it.

It could also turn out to be a frustrating exercise (especially while doing macros)!

 

[D&A]

This all reminds me of the early Nikon pro DSLR bodies and specifically their 80-400 VR lens. Many years ago when that lens was 1st released, many maveled at its very decent performance for such a wide range telezoom (at that time). Shortly after the len's introduction, Nikon released a higher pixel resolution camera (going from 2.7 MP to 6MP) and immediately there were hundreds of posts how the new camera with this lens was possibly defective. People who would get decent shots at 400mm hand held (with VR) woud find slight blurriness to their images with the high resolution camera and yet their were using the same exact shutter speeds with both. After a time, the hypothesis was then the density and size of the pixels had changed and somehow this was responsible for many shots loosing their edge in sharpness with the new camera vs. the old. At the time, it was called "digital smear". Of course quickly over time, the reasoning behind all this became well know but its interesting that the theiry behind all this hasn't changed. Believe me, many including Pro's were a bit stumped at the time when it was first observed and higher shutter speeds of course was the instant fix in most cases.

Dave (D&A)

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Totally agree Dave. After a couple weeks even after a day it was use with care attached to it. Little room for being sloppy in your technique. My word of caution don't leave home without your tripod or a better mindset on better shooting technique.

 

[gustavo]

Swissblad, I don't think that image is a good example of post processing, not that I would trust Zoom lenses on such a camera, except maybe by the 14-24.
Try looking at the images posted in this thread. ACH

Hi everybody. I´m a new member. Share this forum with you is a pleasure for me.
I´ve been thinking in buying the D800e with the 24-70g; 50 1.8 (i´ve got it) and the 105 2.8, to replace my canon 7d (15-85) -social events and parties- and my pentax 67 II (45, 105, 135 and 300) -landscapes and architecture, and eventually portraits-. Don´t you think the 24-70 is good enough for the d800e? Actually I can´t afford all of the lenses I would like with the new system (24-70; 105 2.8, and: 14-24; 24 1.4g; 50 1.4g, and 85 1.4 g).
Thank´s for your advise



Gustavo..

 

[paulraphael]

Don´t you think the 24-70 is good enough for the d800e?

I'm waiting for one right now. Sample pictures made with the 800 / 24-70 on Nikon's site look stunning. I've printed a couple.

Only caveat is that at 24mm it has a fair amount of field curvature, so the corners may look soft if you're shooting flat subjects.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

One reason I went with the 14-24 is the least amount of distortion at 24.

 

[Jolly]

I'm aware that I'm an old dog and I no longer have a steady hand, but I'm curious to hear other D800 shooters experiences with this ?

Very interesting point.

 

[ustein]

>I'm aware that I'm an old dog and I no longer have a steady hand, but I'm curious to hear other D800 shooters experiences with this ?

1. I did not a single tripod shot so far with the D800 but neither may any of my shots be sharp enough for you (can't say who is the older us two)
2. But I use VR or IS in these cases and stay at higher shutter speeds
3. These 36MP show any minor motion blur and out of focus issue (I live with it)

 

[mark1958]

Although not scientific, I have noticed a number of my shots at shutter speeds I felt comfortable with shooting were not tack sharp. I first thought it was mis-focusing issues but as I could visualize some of the really sharp images--- that I did get, I realized it was the whole image was affected not just the focus point. I think part of the reason is that i was using a canon 24-105mm IS and now the nikon 24-70 as my walk around lens and clearly IS may play a big role here. However, even with the IS vs VR lenses-- I still have the impression I have a slightly higher mis-rate with the Nikon.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Well that could just be a simple matter of putting to much stock in VR in your approach. Like thinking you have two extra stops of speed than pushing it to the edge if you know what I mean. Also you could be getting motion in a direction that maybe VRs week spot . Let's say for example and not sure of this but VR maybe more tuned to a vertical movement cause usually that is the area of concern but your moving horizontally. Just some thoughts here but a good rule of thumb is don't give up our roots of knowledge we learned without these gizmos.

 

[ustein]

>now the nikon 24-70 as my walk around lens and clearly IS may play a big role here.

IS makes a big difference. I hardly would use the 24-70mm handheld unless with pretty high shutter speeds (especially not on the D800).

 

[ustein]

>Like thinking you have two extra stops of speed than pushing it to the edge if you know what I mean

I kind of think like one f-stop and apply a shutter speed as 1/(2xfocal) or even faster.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Just to add on you need to look at fine tuning your AF. This whole thread started with my posting a couple images and I am off with back focusing on them. That lens took a correction of minus 14 too the next morning when I realized it was out. That was the 14-24 and my 180 was off as well. All this can lead to issues

 

[Guy Mancuso]

>Like thinking you have two extra stops of speed than pushing it to the edge if you know what I mean

I kind of think like one f-stop and apply a shutter speed as 1/(2xfocal) or even faster.

That's good thinking. Keep your expectations low

 

[Swissblad]

. . . or has anyone tried using Aperture - which now supports the D800 and D800E?

As a regular Aperture user, I've downloaded Steen's NEF files, and have to say, they are pretty impressive - especially the level of detail!

I've no idea how these files compare to ACR or NEX2, with regard to colour fidelity etc.

At any rate, I can see a D800 on the shopping list!