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Thread: Email from B&H Regarding the D800E

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    Member Mr.Gale's Avatar
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    Email from B&H Regarding the D800E

    I have a pre-order with B&H for a D800E and yesterday I received this email (see below) asking if am sure I want the D800E. What concerns me is the sentence, "The D800E is best used in applications in which the photographer has absolute control over lighting and color balance". I am a landscape photographer and make large prints is the reason for ordering the 800E, I want all the detail I can get but I certainly don't have control over lighting. I thought the only concern was the higher possibility of moiré with the 800E. Should I worry? Did I order the right camera?
    Thanks,
    Mr.Gale

    Thank you for your pre-order of the following item:
    Nikon D800E SLR Digital Camera (Body Only)
    (B&H # NID800E)
    You are receiving this message so we may address a concern of ours. Some customers might be unclear about the differences between the Nikon D800, and the Nikon D800E, and which camera is the best choice for them.
    The Nikon D800 and D800E are similar cameras, based on appearance and most specs. However, there is one underlying difference that should be an important factor in deciding which camera is the right one for you.

    The D800E incorporates optical glass between its optical low pass filter substrates, which has the effect of canceling the filter’s moiré and aliasing correction. The benefit is an increase in the sharpness and definition of your photographs. The tradeoff is a greater likelihood that you will incur moiré and/or false colors in some images. The D800E is best used in applications in which the photographer has absolute control over lighting and color balance.
    Please click here for further information on the differences between these two cameras.


    If you would like to change your Pre-Order from the Nikon D800E to the Nikon D800, Please reply to this email with your request.

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    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Email from B&H Regarding the D800E

    Have you ever used a camera without an AA filter? They can produce very strange artifacts. This is from a Leica M9:



    This is largely, though not always, treatable in post. I'm guessing that B&H doesn't want you to freak out if you're not expecting it.

    --Matt

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    Senior Member eleanorbrown's Avatar
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    Re: Email from B&H Regarding the D800E

    I use the Leica M9 and Phase One back (CCD sensors both with no AA filter) for landscape all the time. I have considering selling my Canon gear and going with the D800e. What I haven't had experience with is a lack of AA filter on a CMOS sensor. I would be interested to hear peoples experience with a CMOS and no AA filter! Eleanor

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Email from B&H Regarding the D800E

    Matt,

    I want a shirt like that!

    Jack
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    Re: Email from B&H Regarding the D800E

    higher pixel count can reduce moire, so compare to M9 with that in mind

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    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Email from B&H Regarding the D800E

    Jack, it was a very attractive small blue check. I'd like one, too. I wonder what it would have looked like if it were a Bayer pattern. Light gray?

    Matt

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    Re: Email from B&H Regarding the D800E

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Jack, it was a very attractive small blue check. I'd like one, too. I wonder what it would have looked like if it were a Bayer pattern. Light gray?

    Matt
    Put it through that new Fuji sensor, and then apply Velvia Style. MMM...

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    Member Steve Fines's Avatar
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    Re: Email from B&H Regarding the D800E

    Hi,

    I have a d800e on order with them and got the same email.

    As well as the "...absolute control over lighting and color balance", if you clicked to their linked web page one of the charts had a section on apertures.

    Basically the d800 was good at all apertures, the d800e should be used "only at middle apertures".

    Now, to your question. I think the M9 is a great landscape camera. I never once had a moire issue with it using it outside. However, it is a CCD and the 800e is a CMOS, and as well the 800e has a lot more pixels.

    What will this mean for the 800e outside, without control over lighting and color balance? I suspect not much, but to be sure the real answer is "I don't know, and likely we won't until people have started using a lot in landscape settings and seen what it can do."

    The aperture thing I thought odd as well. They might have said middle apertures thinking that most lenses needed to be closed a stop or two before getting to their sweet spot, and much more than that will make them diffraction limited.

    However, this is true for any camera. The B&H chart seemed to be hinting more at "if you get an 800e you will need to use middle apertures. If you want to shoot wide open or stopped down you would be better off getting an 800."

    Did you order the wrong camera? I don't know. I doubt it, but we'll just have to see when they start to appear in the wild.
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    Member Mr.Gale's Avatar
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    Re: Email from B&H Regarding the D800E

    Thanks Steve, that's good input.

    Mr.Gale

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    Re: Email from B&H Regarding the D800E

    Hi All,

    Although that e-mail is from B&H and many who are on B&H's wait list have received it, I can relay the fact that a number of other Nikon dealers are sending out similar info to their D800e wait list customers. I believe a number of weeks ago dealers met directly with Nikon reps and apparently some/many were instructed to pass along info to those who pre-ordered D800e, to reconsider the regular D800 for their needs and that the D800e was generally more suitable for select use and certain kinds of photography/photographers. Not exactly the same B&H message but along the same lines.

    Either Nikon is wrorried that there may be compaints from those who may be upset if they enconter moire, especially with the video portion of the camera, or NIkon feels that since they have only planned for limited production of the D800e initially (whereas most of the production will be D800's), that potential sales might be lost. Maybe its a bit of both.

    Interesting to see this approach and I believe B&H is simply following Nikon guidelines issued to their dealers.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 29th March 2012 at 22:04.

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    Re: Email from B&H Regarding the D800E

    It's very understandable that Nikon is cautious about this. I can imagine some $500 weekend wedding photographer buying the D800E, finding out too late that the bride's dress looks like a kaleidoscope in all the photos, thus suing Nikon for umpteen million dollars in damages and loss of reputation, not to mention the 12,378 posts on dpr where he'll hold said camera manufacturer responsible for two World Wars plus the deaths of Michael Jackson, Elvis and Marilyn Monroe.
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    Re: Email from B&H Regarding the D800E

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    Hi All,

    Although that e-mail is from B&H and many who are on B&H's wait list have received it, I can reelay the fact that a number of other Nikon dealers are sending out similar info to their D800e wait list customers. I believe a number of weeks ago dealers met directly with Nikon reps and apparently some/many were instructed to pass along info to those who pre-ordered D800e, to reconsider the regular D800 for their needs and that the D800e was generally more suitable for select use and certain kinds of photography/photographers. Not exactly the same B&H message but along the same lines.

    Either Nikon is wrorried that there may be compaints from those who may be upset if they enconter moire, especially with the video portion of the camera, or NIkon feels that since they have only planned for limited production of the D800e initially (whereas most of the production will be D800's), that postential sales might be lost. Maybe its a bit of both.

    Interesting to see this approach and I believe B&H is simply following Nikon guidelines issued to their dealers.

    Dave (D&A)
    I also received a letter from my local dealer regarding the D800 vs D800E and suggesting that I might want to change my order to a D800. It points out very politely that Nikon is concentrating on production of the D800 and that deliveries of the D800E will be very slow in coming. They included a set of links to Nikon's own technical guides, Scott Kelby, LuLa and other blog and review entires regarding the E vs std version.
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    Re: Email from B&H Regarding the D800E

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    It's very understandable that Nikon is cautious about this. I can imagine some $500 weekend wedding photographer buying the D800E, finding out too late that the bride's dress looks like a kaleidoscope in all the photos, thus suing Nikon for umpteen million dollars in damages and loss of reputation, not to mention the 12,378 posts on dpr where he'll hold said camera manufacturer responsible for two World Wars plus the deaths of Michael Jackson, Elvis and Marilyn Monroe.


    Unfortunately, it is not that easy to blackmail a company.

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    Re: Email from B&H Regarding the D800E

    Most likely they have misjudged the desire for the D800E orders and they are giving you a chance to get a camera faster. Also, they really could be nervous about the D800E orders--it is a real PITA to get returns and a huge hit to profits. Be careful what your customers ask for, because you may need to pay for their mistakes.

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    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: Email from B&H Regarding the D800E

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post


    Unfortunately, it is not that easy to blackmail a company.
    Not in the real world, but on the net very unfortunately it is - it's enough to get a high number of vocal posts around some fora, which can be done with actually a very small number of people moving around and using different aliases. Check out in the past what has been made of whatever supposed "issue" new cameras in both Nikon and Canon camps had, on fora like Dpreview say a camera sold 50.000 units and in a forum with a first page list of 50 posts you have 20/30 complaining posts it looks like the whole world is complaining, while it's less than 1/1000 of the actual buyers. You will not find 49.970 posts from people defending their camera...
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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Email from B&H Regarding the D800E

    Sometimes internet fora are just here for nothing!

    Everybody who buys a camera without AA filter should understand what she/he is doing. Getting info is something everyone is responsible for himself. Unfortunately our culture has evolved into a direction where this responsibility can be easily rolled over to other legal instances today - which is wrong. First and foremost everyone should know what they buy!

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    Re: Email from B&H Regarding the D800E

    What does happen to all of the "new" camera gear that is returned? Not just bodies with several hundred (or thousand) captures, but also lenses that are purchased by folks who order several of the same lens and then cherry pick the best one and send the others back? I know everyone talks about doing this, but what if you received one of those lenses or bodies as a customer buying new from B&H or your local dealer and realized it had already been sold as new to someone else who returned it?

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    Re: Email from B&H Regarding the D800E

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Ernst View Post
    ...what if you received one of those lenses or bodies as a customer buying new from B&H or your local dealer and realized it had already been sold as new to someone else who returned it?
    Anything that leaves the store has to be returned to Nikon and sold as a refurb. There are strict laws about what can and can't be sold as new (although I don't know the details of them. Maybe someone can fill us in).

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