V
Vivek
Guest
I am hoping the Nokia pure view is at least a 10% Wow.
You seem to have come with a new scale here, Guy! I like it! :thumbs:
You seem to have come with a new scale here, Guy! I like it! :thumbs:
Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!
+1I think it's important to note, that most here are not buying cameras to indulge. To me that seems to imply more of a hobby or passion; or those at a point in their careers that can justify the purchase and roll it into the cost of doing business. That's a position I hope to obtain...someday. The fact is, the D800 has completely changed the the options and thinking of many potential MFD customers. Subtle tone, and color saturation differences, are less important now, to the not so subtle price difference! That's what these comparisons have ultimately evolved to now when comparing these two models, and we haven't even reviewed the D800E yet.
Not sure what forum you're talking about ... but fact is most here DO induldge themselves to the degree they can. While some are professional photographers in fact, and some partially, most here don't make their living doing so.I think it's important to note, that most here are not buying cameras to indulge. To me that seems to imply more of a hobby or passion; or those at a point in their careers that can justify the purchase and roll it into the cost of doing business. That's a position I hope to obtain...someday. The fact is, the D800 has completely changed the the options and thinking of many potential MFD customers. Subtle tone, and color saturation differences, are less important now, to the not so subtle price difference! That's what these comparisons have ultimately evolved to now when comparing these two models, and we haven't even reviewed the D800E yet.
You need new clients ... and maybe glasses+1
And may I add - showing a large print - even A0 size - to a client, I really doubt any of them could tell the difference between a D800(E), S2, HB40, 50, 60 or IQ140, 160 or even 180!
Have seen prints form a D200 larger than A0 and I was just speechless of the IQ. So we are getting into areas where we compare not percents, but much smaller numbers ....
One thing which was mentioned I find still pretty accurate - how much one likes a certain camera in their hands. And here the S2 is anyway a clear winner. Anything else - just forget. Or simply try to ignore to justify already down investment.
OR ... a simple, intuitive camera that slides in-between 35mm and 645, that has a big bright viewfinder, is fast to operate (for those who've used it for more than a week) ... with just the right range of lenses for what they shoot, and doesn't care if it does twenty other things.Just a side note on the MF thing when talking about the S2: IMHO, the S2 can hardly be considered MF, and would definitely not have been considered as such back in the day. Leica S2's sensor is 45 X 30 mm, while the D800's is 35.9 X 24 mm. We are talking of something not even close to twice the area of the other, when back in the day even 645 (which on the other hand is exactly twice the area of the S2's sensor) was considered "small" compared to 6x6, 6x7 or 6x9. It is only natural to see that with the development in technology the D800's slightly smaller sensor outperforms the S2's. On the glass side of the equation, while the latest Nikkors are doing very well by themselves I am not in the least surprised to see that using Zeiss glass the gap with the S2, as Lloyd showed, is tipped in favor of the D800.
This, of course, not even putting into the equation price, flexibility, number/range etc of lenses natively available (and not with a crippling adaptor), native flash system, AF, operating speed, performance, accessories, etc etc makes a no-brainer IMHO when having to choose between the D800 and the S2.
On an IQ-only base, and especially on certain subject matter/photographical applications, of course high-megapixel DMF still has (and will for some time have) the edge. Again, not considering price, flexibility, number/range etc of lenses natively available (and not with a crippling adaptor), native flash system, AF, operating speed, performance, accessories, etc etc...
Unless of course, we're talking about the S3OR ... a simple, intuitive camera that slides in-between 35mm and 645, that has a big bright viewfinder, is fast to operate (for those who've used it for more than a week) ... with just the right range of lenses for what they shoot, and doesn't care if it does twenty other things.
Like some others here, I don't buy your absolute pronouncement of superiority no matter how many times you repeat the mantra. I don't like the look, and I don't like the Manual ZF lenses. "Like" still has a LOT of leverage in any creative endeavor, and the absolutism of technological pronouncements can't change that and never should.
-Marc
S3? Oh my aching pocketbook ... :ROTFL:Unless of course, we're talking about the S3
I agree, and while I also use different cameras, the S2 has come closest to crossing barriers ... much of the handling, ease and speed of 35mm, and the look and feel of MFD ... if I had the S leaf-shutter lenses, it could do more of the MFD work than now. That is the only thing disappointing about the S2, the LS lenses are still not here :wtf:I think it's just fine to discuss it back and forth: no-one is telling anyone else what to buy or what to keep and I think we pretty much all know that the wall shots in the Diglloyd test are revealing of only one particular relative aspect of the combinations of two particular cameras and lenses. It takes a lot more data points than that to build a subtle and complex picture of the relative strength and weaknesses of systems.
As far as I can see, most people here aren't thinking that the days of the MF system are over - whatever Diglloyd might claim. I know for a fact that I will get better pictures, assuming good technique, from my IQ180 than I will from my upcoming D800E but I also know that there are many occasions when I will likely choose the D800E because it'll give x% of the same quality for only y% of the effort. That's a reasonable calculation to be trying to make - it is the one that Guy has already made in fact.
And as for Marc, I think he is exactly right to shoot the system with which he feels most 'right' and not to chase rainbows. If I had yet found a system that felt that way for me, I wouldn't be chasing said rainbows myself! But as it is, I do take quite a lot of pictures, some of them successful I hope, with a range of cameras none of which is exactly what I imagine I really want but all of which are more capable than I am!
Ah yes it would indeed! An S2 with leaf shutter lenses, now that would make a great image for a poster on my wall...or in a magazine under my bed (between the mattress) sshh, don't tell my wife.:bugeyes:S3? Oh my aching pocketbook ... :ROTFL:
All I can say is that Leica best get the Leaf shutter lenses out before another body. The dual shutter was one key reason I bought into the system in the first place ... high sync speed is very important to me.
Then again, the S2 would make a great back-up ... one set of lenses and all that.
-Marc
Marc, you should re-read my message(s) and your abundant absolute pronouncements on the greatness of the S2. I understand your preference, and respect it; what I don't understand is why you feel so defensive when it comes to your precious S2, and why you don't respect neither actual truths (come to that) nor others' opinions, in this and other threads, when it comes to comparing the S2 to other cameras.OR ... a simple, intuitive camera that slides in-between 35mm and 645, that has a big bright viewfinder, is fast to operate (for those who've used it for more than a week) ... with just the right range of lenses for what they shoot, and doesn't care if it does twenty other things.
Like some others here, I don't buy your absolute pronouncement of superiority no matter how many times you repeat the mantra. I don't like the look, and I don't like the Manual ZF lenses. "Like" still has a LOT of leverage in any creative endeavor, and the absolutism of technological pronouncements can't change that and never should.
-Marc