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Thread: A little game of D800 profile guessing...

  1. #1
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    A little game of D800 profile guessing...

    This file has had LR lens corrections and WB applied, otherwise nothing. I then still in LR4, made my own X-Rite passport profile and tried it against various Nikon profiles such as Vivid, Landscape, Neutral and also Adobe Camera Standard.

    Since you weren't there when I shot it, you won't know which is 'right' but then this faces all of us quite often: the need to retro-fit the best colour to a file from memory.

    So which of these (files in Adobe RGB) do you prefer, find most natural, least natural?

    I'll post the answers later!

    Originals here: http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/p847354947/hb10dbb#hb10dbb













  2. #2
    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
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    Re: A little game of D800 profile guessing...

    What was the sky like? #2 could look real for a cloudy day.

    --Matt

  3. #3
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A little game of D800 profile guessing...

    Blue sky at mid day, but with a medium density cloud passing at that moment as far as I remember...

  4. #4
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: A little game of D800 profile guessing...

    I'd probably prefer #2 as a starting place for post-processing (in RAW form).. although it's hard to tell on my laptop if the highlights have held, even in such a low contrast rendering.

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    Re: A little game of D800 profile guessing...

    #2 is made from colors i mostly recognize from my home planet. The others more closely resemble pictures I see on the internet (as you might guess, I am not an über-saturation dude).

    In all of them, including #2, the red channel is heavily clipped. Did this happen in camera or in processing?

  6. #6
    Senior Member EH21's Avatar
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    Re: A little game of D800 profile guessing...

    Thanks for sharing here. When I really look at these, I see lots of differences, but actually none of them look 'real' to me mostly because of the reds and yellows. Is that why you went to the through all the profile comparisons in the first place?

  7. #7
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A little game of D800 profile guessing...

    Quote Originally Posted by paulraphael View Post
    In all of them, including #2, the red channel is heavily clipped. Did this happen in camera or in processing?
    Interesting observation.... I haven't opened the file in NX but in LR it has a nicely centred histogram, even if I download the files from what I've posted here, rather than looking at the originals. So I tried dropping jpegs and TIFFs into C1 (it doesn't open NEFFs) and at first sight it looks light a fairly good histo, but in fact it does go off a bit of a cliff at the right though there are no highlight clipping warnings for the reds in either C1 or LR. Obviously C1 is depending on the TIFF I output, which was 16 bit full size.

    Running a dropper over the files in LR does show in a small number of areas 100% red though. However if I subtract about 1/3rd stop in exposure, or simply drop luminosity in the reds, this goes away.

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    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: A little game of D800 profile guessing...

    I always create ColorChecker Passport profiles but the reds and greens are still not great.

    I wait for the support by DxO because there colors seem always be very good by default.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Editor&Owner of Digital Outback Photo
    http://www.outbackphoto.com

  9. #9
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A little game of D800 profile guessing...

    So that was a difficult shot with no wide reference palette for the eye to get stuck into. This next was at 1112 am BST and I had a UV filter on. They are in the same order of profile processing as the tulips.










  10. #10
    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: A little game of D800 profile guessing...

    What castle? You need a tele lens :-)
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Editor&Owner of Digital Outback Photo
    http://www.outbackphoto.com

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: A little game of D800 profile guessing...

    Tulips -- Green separation is my biggest peeve with DSLR files, and where MF reigns king IMHO. That said, your #4 has the best green separation -- however it comes with poorer red separation than #3. Best red separation appears to be #2 (ACR std?), to my eyes. So for "balance" I should give #3 the nod, but is is also higher contrast and slightly over-saturated for my liking (possibly the ACR "Vibrant" profile?) -- so if you dialed back contrast by about 8 points, I think that might make it my favorite.

    Of course this is about pleasing color and nothing above has anything to do with what is the most "accurate" color, that is an entirely different discussion.
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    A little game of D800 profile guessing...


    My guess for the tulips:

    # 1 Adobe Standard

    # 2 Camera Neutral

    # 3 Camera Standard

    # 4 Camera Landscape

    # 5 Camera Vivid

  13. #13
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A little game of D800 profile guessing...

    Because I am a sloppy dolt (I really do apologise) the second set differs from the first set.

    The tulips have, NOT IN THIS ORDER, Xrite Profile, Adobe Standard, Camera Vivid, Camera Landscape and Camera Neutral. There is no Camera Standard rendition.

    The castle has almost the same BUT I accidentally did a Camera Standard rather than an Adobe Standard so there is NO Adobe Standard.

    So given that most users seem agreed that they don't like the Adobe Standard profile, the Castel series is more interesting because it has only the Camera recipes and my home-brew Xrite recipe...

    Sorry for the confusion... I shouldn't answer the phone whilst processing

  14. #14
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: A little game of D800 profile guessing...

    I have been using Camera standard mostly as it renders the blue sky about the best but again we all have different color preferences so it is tough. The color from the D800 is good but again I would like to profile mine anyway but I am kind of waiting to see what C1 has and work in that program if I'm going to do anything. So right now I'm on holding pattern.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Re: A little game of D800 profile guessing...


    oh sorry about my above nonsense guess, Tim, I misunderstood the possibilities to choose among

  16. #16
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A little game of D800 profile guessing...

    Well Steen, I also managed to confuse the issue a little! :>(

  17. #17
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    Re: A little game of D800 profile guessing...

    The second of the castle photos would be my choice because it appears, on my iPad 3, to have the most shadow detail and "moderate" saturation. I prefer a more neutral starting point with the raw file. In fact, I wish that Adobe provided a profile that looked more like the color palette of a nice color negative film. It's easy to dial up contrast and saturation in PS and LR, but not so easy to produce nice pastels.

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    A little game of D800 profile guessing...


    Ok, for the castle landscape my guess would be:

    # 1 Xrite profile

    # 2 Camera Neutral

    # 3 Camera Landscape

    # 4 Camera Vivid

    # 5 Camera Standard

  19. #19
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A little game of D800 profile guessing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Steen View Post
    Ok, for the castle landscape my guess would be:

    # 1 Xrite profile

    # 2 Camera Neutral

    # 3 Camera Landscape

    # 4 Camera Vivid

    # 5 Camera Standard
    ...you are VERY close!

  20. #20
    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    A little game of D800 profile guessing...


    are you saying I should swap # 1 and 5 ... ?

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Mastermind


    the sound of silence ...

    wonder if it means I'm wrong about swapping # 1 with # 5 ...

    or does it mean that I just cannot ask questions and expect to get any hints but will have to grow up and take the full responsibility of my own decisions ...

    this is like Mastermind, I need to run the risk, I hope I win the castle and the princess and half the kingdom ...




    # 1 Camera Standard

    # 2 Camera Neutral

    # 3 Camera Landscape

    # 4 Camera Vivid

    # 5 Xrite profile

  22. #22
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: A little game of D800 profile guessing...

    My guess camera standard is number 1 .
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A little game of D800 profile guessing...

    OK here are the actual settings:

    Tulips
    Adobe Standard
    Camera Neutral
    Camera Landscape
    Camera Vivid
    XRite Home Brew

    Castle
    Camera Standard
    Camera Neutral
    Camera Landscape
    Camera Vivid
    XRite Home Brew

    So most of you got it about right... and I learn that there might not be a lot of point in making Home Brew profiles... the Camera Standard and Neutral, according to taste, both seem a better place to start..

    Thanks for looking everyone!

  24. #24
    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    The Castle image


    does that mean that I win the Castle ...

    by the way, Tim, my sincere kudos for your profiling work, om my screen # 5 is the best of them all, really impressive

  25. #25
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: The Castle image

    Quote Originally Posted by Steen View Post
    does that mean that I win the Castle ...

    by the way, Tim, my sincere kudos for your profiling work, om my screen # 5 is the best of them all, really impressive
    Thanks Steen,

    I slightly agree, but I think the XRite profile fails to get greens truly convincing and tends to oversaturate reds in particular. But these things are often about personal preference!

  26. #26
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: A little game of D800 profile guessing...

    Tim do us a favor in each of the two sets so we can see better post the camera standard and the X-rite profile you did. Like to see them side by side. Thanks
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  27. #27
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: A little game of D800 profile guessing...

    I have been pretty happy lately with the camera standard but it could use a liitle work. So like to see if x-rite pulls it off better.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  28. #28
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A little game of D800 profile guessing...

    OK Guy, here they are: in each case the Camera Standard is first and then the XRite. Additionally I have done one last Tulip variation, based on the Xrite version but with the Camera Calibration Red Primary settings to Saturation-16 and Hue+16 (more orange, closer to the Camera Standard rendition in the reds but still with the more punchy greens of the Xrite). That's the one posted last.

    HTH
    Tim












  29. #29
    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    A little game of D800 profile guessing...


    Tim, sorry if I'm confusing things again, but may I ask you this:

    isn't # 1 Tulip still the Adobe Standard rather than the (Nikon) Camera Standard ... ?

  30. #30
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A little game of D800 profile guessing...

    Nikon Camera Standard Steen

  31. #31
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: A little game of D800 profile guessing...

    The Xrite looks pretty nice. The reds have a little more color depth to it. Looking on my iPad at the moment will check on wide gamut monitor
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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