D800E with 24mm PC-E

[tashley]

In short, fun but not 100% up to the job IMHO. The stuff that is enjoyable (the 'toy' look) is a bit gimmicky and the stuff it should be great at (edge to edge sharpness) is not its strongest suit. Very very sharp on centre, even wide open but especially stopped down a touch. Unshifted, the best compromise between edge sharpness and loss of resolution to diffraction is at F8. Shifting is harder to analyse and I need to take a lot more shots but so far, if I wanted to get the whole frame sharp, I wouldn't use this lens unless I was feeling slightly forgiving.

Usability in terms of iterating swings or tilts on the D800E and getting the focus right is pretty good if not exactly a doodle. I have many shots where I have almost nailed a complex choice of focus points but not totally got it. No doubt more practice will improve things.

Not sure if I'm going to keep it: once the novelty has worn off, it doesn't really fill its brief perfectly, but I'm not sure what other choice there currently are that would do better. At least rise seems to work well if you stop down a bit and lose the last bits of the sides... but the inconvenience of not being able to select the directions of shifts and tilts and swings is irritating too.

anyhoo, some shots, just to prove I actually used it

A couple of novelty shots...

A couple of swings to get the plane of focus where I want it:

those last two are available here if anyone wants to see what is and isn't in focus...

http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/p208888099/h59de56#h2b05b9e4

 

[tashley]

and some more novelties!

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Not heard good things about it.

 

[Paul2660]

Tim,
What were your settings for the "toy" look, it's very unique. Did you shoot any side by side, "toy and then not toy". the first frame and the dock, really look like a miniature.

Paul

 

[tashley]

Hi Paul,

I will dig out a comparison shot later when back with the memory card but essentially, they are easily achieved: you just put on full swing, then re-centre the subject and focus on it, then choose your aperture for more or less DOF, which is now the width of the focus zone as described now from left to right, rather than front to rear. Fun, but also now widely available as cheesy in-camera or PP software effects, especially effective on cameras with very deep near-to-far DOF such as small sensor and phone cameras.

The party trick I am pulling here is to do this on a large sensor that can be enlarged to very big sizes for print but still have a zone of perfect focus from very near to infinity.

The reason it's often called the 'toy' effect is that can emulate the way in which a small model of a large scene appears when photographed with a macro lens, a scenarios which can give very narrow DOF effects. Using movements on a PC lens or technical camera tricks the eye into seeing the scene as a close up of a scale model.

My usage here could, for example, also allow a shot where several people or objects placed in a line at right angles to the camera (imagine ten people on a beach, in a line reaching away from the camera) were all placed in focus, whereas everything to the left and right of them would be OOF.

 

[Paul2660]

Tim:

Thanks,
By swing, you mean tilt? on the 24 TS-E. Do you have yours setup so that you can tilt and shift in the same axis. I have been told that you can send the lens to Nikon to have this done.

Besides it's excellent detail resolution the tilt and shift in one axis ability on the new Canon TS-E is one really great feature. I never really understood all the benefits of tilt (probably still don't) until I start to use a tech camera. It made go back to the Canon and really take the time to figure out that lens.

I only wish I could mount it on Nikon:scry: Just wont' work.

Paul

 

[Jack]

Swing is simply tilt on it's side. Google "scheimpflug" for why it works, here's a wiki link: Scheimpflug principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Chris C]

.....By swing, you mean tilt? on the 24 TS-E. Do you have yours setup so that you can tilt and shift in the same axis......

Paul-From the pictures you can see that [in landscape mode] it's set-up for swing around a vertical axis, and not for tilt. I find the rational behind this lens fairly bizarre, it's as if nobody told the designers that some photographers make vertical as well as landscape shots which need rise/drop, combined with tilt to control the plane of focus. Canon got their designs right, the Nikon seems long overdue a redesign.

............... Chris

 

[tashley]

Here's an 'unswung' version slightly differently framed:

And this was swing rather than tilt - as others have pointed out, swing lets you turn the zone of focus on an imaginary vertical pivot whereas tilt works on an imaginary horizontal pivot.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I just want some darn fish and chips. LOL

 

[Jack]

Bud, I'll order you up some Salton Sea tilapia tacos!

:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

 

[Guy Mancuso]

No thanks. This is a funny story about Tilapia. We had a great workshop in the Salton Sea area but we need to remember there is only one thing in that damn lake has in it and you guessed it Tilapia. Since it is so high in concentration of salt nothing else survives well either do the Tilapia as all the beaches is lined with dead Tilapia so you can just imagine how bad the smell is that goes with it. Not sure anyone has eaten it since that trip. LOL

 

[tashley]

I'd send some from sunny Brighton but I'm sure it'd smell a bit Salton by the time it arrived...

 

[tjv]

I know this is a big request, but are you able to demonstrate the off neutral sharpness in a photo that employs a large amount of rise? E.g. the side of a building? I'm interested in the 24mm PC-E but would need it to be sharp to the corners and from what you've described the drop off is pretty dramatic once movements start to be employed. Even if you could post some corner detail crops that would give me an indication, I'd be forever in your debt!

 

[danielmoore]

I'd be interested to see those findings as well. I did a similar test to what you're asking and found that for moderate shifts I did better to shoot wider with a 14-24 and crop. A D800 should really make this a viable option. I only tried one 24 PC-E from lens rentals, and was underwhelmed.

 

[tjv]

That's not good news at all. A total buzz kill, actually!

I'd be interested to see those findings as well. I did a similar test to what you're asking and found that for moderate shifts I did better to shoot wider with a 14-24 and crop. A D800 should really make this a viable option. I only tried one 24 PC-E from lens rentals, and was underwhelmed.

 

[tashley]

I ran that test but got inconsistent results which I put down to user error so I will try it again when I get near a suitable building

 

[tjv]

Awesome, thanks Tim.

 

[tashley]

OK, a number of health warnings with these: I'm having a busy day so having combed the streets for the prefect building and finding none, I've gone for the best I could find in the time... not ideal. Also I only had a small Giottos CF travel tripod though at these shutter speeds that shouldn't matter.

I have applied sharpening the the NEFs in LR at 60, 0.7, 70, 20 which is my standard lower ISO input sharpening for these files - it looks quite aggressive but is still less so than that used by default in C1. Profile used was Camera Standard

I would suggest looking at these at 50% on screen. At which point IMHO they are useable for all but the most critical applications, especially if you take a couple steps back then crop a little.

The files are uploading now to

Tim Ashley Photography | D800E with PC-E 24mm

It's the series of brick wall shots. Done all settings to neutral on the lens at first, then 5, 10 and 11 (full) rise. Converted to 91% quality JPEGS, Adobe RGB, no bothering with exposure or WB!

Hope they are helpful if certainly not definitive... and I think I might have a slightly decentered element: the RHS is a little weaker than the left but since I might be sending this in to get it re-oriented I could have that looked at then. Unfortunately I ordered it well in advance of my cameras' arrivals so I'm out of the 1 month return period...

 

[Rethmeier]

I use a 24 PC-E with my D3x.
It's just good enough. If only it was as good as the 85 PC-E.
The 45 PC-E is fine, apart from some CA.
If only we could use Canon's 24 TS mkII on the Nikon.