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Thread: D800E vs Hasselblad unofficial unprofessional comparision

  1. #51
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    Re: D800E vs Hasselblad unofficial unprofessional comparision

    I was referring to system lenses with full comparability without adapters.
    If we were to add all the 3rd party lenses and lenses with adapters the Nikon would have more options again.
    Also add to that the fact that you can use live view with the Nikon for accuracy when using older manual lenses.
    In comparison using a Hasselblad 110mm f2 on my Phasee One DF was almost unusable wide open due to the limited magnification of the Df viewfinder and lack of waist level or loup finder. The DF focus confirmation with the 110mm f2 was far from accurate unlike the focus confirmation on both my Canons and Nikon

    The Hasselblad H to CF/CFi/CFE adapter is hellishly expensive and not the most reliable gadget out there.

    Regarding high speed sync. True you get full power from a studio strobe at higher sync speeds with leaf shutters, but there are workarounds with high speed sync with Nikon and Canon cameras.

    You can use multiple Speedlights in high speed sync with Canon and Nikon to increase power.

    I use pocket wizard Flex TTL radio triggers with two Elinchrom AS3000 packs into a dual head and get all the power I need. The power loss using high speed focal plane sync is no problem when starting out with 6,000 w/s. When used with the brilliant SL35 Elinchrom fresnel spot I get around f22 at 1/2000 at 15 feet.

    Large studio strobe packs can be found at great prices on ebay. Way less than the investment needed in LS lenses.

    Another thing to consider is that if you are using flash to overpower the sun you can also use a 3.5 stop neutral density filter and more strobe power to obtain exactly what you get with the best of leaf shutters, but with the advantage of investing in flash rather than the same amount for each lens. The Nikon or Canon workarounds also work from fisheye to tele.

  2. #52
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    Re: D800E vs Hasselblad unofficial unprofessional comparision

    Quote Originally Posted by FredBGG View Post
    I was referring to system lenses with full comparability without adapters.
    If we were to add all the 3rd party lenses and lenses with adapters the Nikon would have more options again.
    Also add to that the fact that you can use live view with the Nikon for accuracy when using older manual lenses.
    In comparison using a Hasselblad 110mm f2 on my Phasee One DF was almost unusable wide open due to the limited magnification of the Df viewfinder and lack of waist level or loup finder. The DF focus confirmation with the 110mm f2 was far from accurate unlike the focus confirmation on both my Canons and Nikon

    The Hasselblad H to CF/CFi/CFE adapter is hellishly expensive and not the most reliable gadget out there.

    Regarding high speed sync. True you get full power from a studio strobe at higher sync speeds with leaf shutters, but there are workarounds with high speed sync with Nikon and Canon cameras.

    You can use multiple Speedlights in high speed sync with Canon and Nikon to increase power.

    I use pocket wizard Flex TTL radio triggers with two Elinchrom AS3000 packs into a dual head and get all the power I need. The power loss using high speed focal plane sync is no problem when starting out with 6,000 w/s. When used with the brilliant SL35 Elinchrom fresnel spot I get around f22 at 1/2000 at 15 feet.

    Large studio strobe packs can be found at great prices on ebay. Way less than the investment needed in LS lenses.

    Another thing to consider is that if you are using flash to overpower the sun you can also use a 3.5 stop neutral density filter and more strobe power to obtain exactly what you get with the best of leaf shutters, but with the advantage of investing in flash rather than the same amount for each lens. The Nikon or Canon workarounds also work from fisheye to tele.
    Tit for tat, Fred

    IMO, the rub is you have to use a Nikon ... subjectively with its Nikon look no matter what you do. As you describe it, it seems all just a system of work arounds ... work around this, work around that ... just to make use of a Nikon to get that Nikon look. Been there done that. No thanks. I DO admit that I wouldn't mind a nice 18 meg Canon 1DX for AF and shooting speed at high ISO with a few f/1.2 lenses for hand-held available light work, that's about as far as 35mm DSLRs interest me these days. Horses for courses.

    The Hasselblad CF adapter can be had for $800, but is fully functional stop down operation, not a dumb adapter ... and the H cameras have firmware that recognizes each lens, (CFE lenses automatically). I reliably used two of them for years before I sold all of my V lenses, and have no idea what you are talking about in terms of "...not being the most reliable gadget", except maybe to anecdotally continue your odd crusade against MFD (I guess Phase One really pissed you off, so now everyone has to listen to a one sided, petulant broad based MFD rant at every opportunity ).

    I can use any lens in the H or V system from Zeiss fisheye (IQ that murders the Nikon version), to Zeiss Tele. Which I can rent when needed, which isn't often.

    Now we can use all the H lenses on the S2 from 28mm to 300mm. So, in addition to the 120/2.5 and 180/3.5APO, we have the 100/2.2, 150/3.2N, and 210/4 to work with.

    I don't need a T/S lens, I can use a fully articulated view camera with front and back movements with a 60 meg back.

    BTW, isn't it the Pocket Wizard Flex system that is the unreliable Gadget if all the posts all over the web are any indication?

    Regarding use of strobes: I don't need a dump truck full of wimpy speed-lights and additional radio receivers to work around anything ... then be stuck with the skimpy choice of modifiers that never work well with an array of speed-lights inside (been there done that also). Instead, I can use most any mono-light, studio generator or battery pack at high sync speeds with an array of sophisticated modifiers ... not just a few using work arounds. This includes every pack I already have to choose from to match the need: from the tiny Quadra, small 600B, powerful and fast Hensel 1200L or Mini 1200, D1 Monos, all the way to my D4 2400s which give me 4800w/s using the Profoto Dual tube head ... all without degrading IQ and viewfinder brightness by using a bag full of different strength ND filters ... or a less than stellar variable one.


    I have a Hensel Fresnal on order ... which isn't like an Arri, it IS an Arri.


    This type of lighting isn't everyone's cup of tea, but it is mine ... so YMMV.

    -Marc

  3. #53
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: D800E vs Hasselblad unofficial unprofessional comparision

    Marc and Fred... you gentlemen have the makings of a Pay-per-View fight for HBO.

    Strangely, I see the two of you being more alike than most other members here on the forum in terms of what you value in photography... and your passion for the craft.

    We all have our personal reasons for choosing what we want to use (be it camera gear or otherwise). Can't we leave it at that?

    My Best,
    Shelby
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  4. #54
    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: D800E vs Hasselblad unofficial unprofessional comparision

    It's become obvious that Marc owns/owned, every piece of equipment that one could possibly purchase in MFD, so his opinion is worth considering. Modesty not being one of his stronger traits, we aren't given much room for debate though. Opinions are not necessarily based on fact, either pro or against, but user experience is. Marc has also pointed out its only about price, and that's true - I think that's the underlying constant in this debate. For me, if I could have them all, I would...
    One fact is accurate though, and that's that the D800 has generated lots of interest because of comparisons, both in utility and quality. There is no shame in schlepping around a D800. This is good for the MFD industry, as newer generations of cameras will certainly compete with 35mm FF!

    Edited.
    Last edited by johnnygoesdigital; 5th June 2012 at 08:23.

  5. #55
    Senior Member David Schneider's Avatar
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    Re: D800E vs Hasselblad unofficial unprofessional comparision

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post
    It's become obvious that Marc owns/owned, every piece of equipment that one could possibly purchase in MFD, so his opinion is worth considering. Modesty not being one of his stronger traits, we aren't given much room for debate though. Opinions are not necessarily based on fact, either pro or against, but user experience is. Marc has also pointed out its only about price, and that's true - I think that's the underlying constant in this debate. For me, if I could have them all, I would...
    One fact is accurate though, and that's that the D800 has generated lots of interest because of comparisons, both in utility and quality. There is no shame in schlepping around a D800. Instead let's compare backorders for MFD vs the D800!
    Marc is a working professional and as a working professional myself I value his observations a lot more than I do those of the serious amateur or part timer. I want to hear those opinions based on experience and I thank him for taking the time to present them. They are most helpful to me.

    I do not think a comparison of back orders between between types or brands or models of cameras says much about the quality, reliability, handling, and output of a camera.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: D800E vs Hasselblad unofficial unprofessional comparision

    The user base its completely different by a country mile . Back orders are meaningless. Actually it's more Nikons production line as more as the issue than anything else. Popular yes but not accurate on user base at all, simply stated the 35mm world is huge compared to MF. Frankly these are user kits be it Pro or otherwise but we all have diffrent goals on how to achieve them. Also some of this is investment into your system or system you don't want to invest in. I have been flush and I have been skimpy on gear throughout my Professional career in this business. But I do disagree with Marc on the fact every system no matter what it is as a Pro there is always work arounds and how to accomplish what you need regardless of systems. Be it 20 strobe lights on a full airplane shoot been here done that or a simple headshot there are always diffrent ways to accomplish the same task in most cases. Our job as a Pro is solving clients needs period and with that comes every trick in the book you can do to pull it off or they will go down the street and find someone else. Simply no way to get around workarounds it's really what all this gear is about is finding ways to get the image. Makes no difference if it cost 50 k or or a 5 cent clothespin as long as it works for the shooter.

    On another note and I will speak for probably all of us which I never do here but guys this is getting trying the protection of brand, system and also the bashing of systems is getting frankly pretty damn silly. Remember your talking to the world and your name goes on it. As a friend to all of you please think twice. I'm sorry I even have to say this but is this really the GetDPI way. I would hate to think so. As co owner I thought it was time to speak up.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: D800E vs Hasselblad unofficial unprofessional comparision

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Lewis View Post
    Marc and Fred... you gentlemen have the makings of a Pay-per-View fight for HBO.

    Strangely, I see the two of you being more alike than most other members here on the forum in terms of what you value in photography... and your passion for the craft.

    We all have our personal reasons for choosing what we want to use (be it camera gear or otherwise). Can't we leave it at that?

    My Best,
    Shelby
    Thanks Shelby ... I just have a hard time letting half info skewed to an agenda go unanswered.

    Although you are right, neither one of us is going to alter our beliefs, so just letting it go at that is probably best.

    -Marc

  8. #58
    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: D800E vs Hasselblad unofficial unprofessional comparision

    Pro's or hobby, it's all important. Hobbyists can sometimes be more objective though, as brand or format loyalty doesn't taint the review or experience. It really is about the initial investment because price points between formats are so disproportionate, but now the quality of the end result is not so much. This is the fundamental difference in all these debates and comparisons.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: D800E vs Hasselblad unofficial unprofessional comparision

    End of day and this is more important than many folks think. Hobbyist drive this industry we as Pros are very very much the minority . Lets be honest Phase, Hassy, Leaf , Leica and Pentax are supported very heavily by the the hobbyist and without them these companies would be folding camp. As a Pro myself i owe them a debt a gratitude for keeping it alive.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  10. #60
    Senior Member David Schneider's Avatar
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    Re: D800E vs Hasselblad unofficial unprofessional comparision

    Hope I didn't come across as one who isn't aware of the value of the hobbyist and their importance to the marketplace. And I agree that often they are more objective although often they have their own "team loyalty' to a particular brand or format.

    But if I'm a solider, I prefer to hear from other soldiers about a rifle I will take into combat rather than from someone who uses it for target practice.

  11. #61
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: D800E vs Hasselblad unofficial unprofessional comparision

    David everyone likes to hear what Pros have to say as they are in the trenches with this stuff and this goes for many industries for sure. This does not exclude a lot of hobbyists though especially here on GetDPI as many of them are top notch shooters and very smart folks. I listen to everyone and filter.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: D800E vs Hasselblad unofficial unprofessional comparision

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    End of day and this is more important than many folks think. Hobbyist drive this industry we as Pros are very very much the minority . Lets be honest Phase, Hassy, Leaf , Leica and Pentax are supported very heavily by the the hobbyist and without them these companies would be folding camp. As a Pro myself i owe them a debt a gratitude for keeping it alive.
    Me too. MFD was there and allowed me to compete. That is still the case, nothing has changed in that regard.

    I got in when the enthusiasts' market wasn't such a strong influence, at a time when the cost was baked into any invoice as rental/digital capture fees ... a relatively inexpensive alternative to shooting film, processing and digitizing each image used ... So, my initial investment was recouped with-in 2 to 3 years. That is a BIG difference between my experience and someone popping for the whole deal with no recovery.

    Plus, to build on Jack's post, I think we may over-estimate it even now ... there are so many specialty applications this stuff is used for that it's hard to determine what is what.

    The market will settle any directional issues longer term ... one way or the other. These things tend to be cyclical, and impatience can be costly. I thought to thin down my H lens system to essentials, then Leica introduces their H to S adapter.

    Most Pros I know do not have the latest-greatest. They use what they have to good effect, and don't worry so much about the next innovation be it MFD or 35mm DSLRs. Or they rent it when needed. A huge amount of MFD is used in more controlled environments for applications it was originally designed for ... that has always been my own basis, and that some MFD systems became more mobile was just icing on the cake.

    -Marc

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    D800E vs Hasselblad - unprofessional bashing


    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post

    (...) this is getting tiring, the protection of brand, system and also the bashing of systems is getting frankly pretty damn silly (...)

    + 1

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    Re: D800E vs Hasselblad unofficial unprofessional comparision

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post

    I have a Hensel Fresnal on order ... which isn't like an Arri, it IS an Arri.


    This type of lighting isn't everyone's cup of tea, but it is mine ... so YMMV.

    -Marc
    Hensel has three nice spot options.

    One is based on an Arri chassis with a 30cm fresnal
    The other two are based on ADB Television Spots, both with 30cm fresnel

    I have worked with and owned both of these in their original tungsten versions. They are very nice. The only limitation they have is that the fresnel is more sharply shaped than the lenses designed for strobe that Broncolor and Elinchrom use. This can lead to some banding on shadows created by using two flags or fingers very close together. Minor problem really, but does make a difference in projected shadows of hair if the model is right up against the background.

    I like crisp light but also like the sort of enveloping "soft crispness" of using there large fresnel lenses.

    I also make my own lights. Leko type lights and I am working on two giant fresnel lights. One a 70cm and the other a 165cm.

    The 165 is quite amazing, but I have to figure out how to make it more maneuverable.

    I shot this with two Elinchrom 35cm fresnels and an SL44 gridded "kitchen sink"


    Toyo 8x10 Schneider 480mm f8.4 Symmar-S

    This one is with a single Elinchrom Fresnel spot:


    Fuji gx680 250mm f5.6

    There is also a smaller spot called the Jinbei S-26 Spot-Box.

    It is really nice with a 9 inch lens. They are about $200 and are available with various mounts. Nice build, light and also have a support for heavier mono lights. Very handy on location. They are also quite deep so they focus the flash nicely to a tighter beam letting you use them at large distances so as to look more like the sun.

    Last edited by FredBGG; 5th June 2012 at 21:37.

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    Re: D800E vs Hasselblad unofficial unprofessional comparision

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Now we can use all the H lenses on the S2 from 28mm to 300mm. So, in addition to the 120/2.5 and 180/3.5APO, we have the 100/2.2, 150/3.2N, and 210/4 to work with.

    -Marc
    Yup the S2 has certainly put itself in a nice spot. Great options for optics.
    Leica and Fujinon.... does not get much better than that unless you use an 8x10 with the amazing 480mm 8.4 Schneider Symmar-S but that's a whole different kettle of fish.

    I just would like to see a larger sensor in the S2. Same MP count would do, but just bigger.

  16. #66
    Senior Member David Schneider's Avatar
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    Re: D800E vs Hasselblad unofficial unprofessional comparision

    Marc,

    I added a Larson 18" Fresnel (used with Photogenic 1250dr) http://www.larson-ent.com/items287_F...esnel_Lens.htm and
    a little Photogenic PL5 -Fresnel Lens Reflector 918636 B&H Photo Video which has become my favorite background light now. I've always been drawn to the Hollywood 1940's glamour black and white look, but not hot lights. With these I can work it into even a 60 min. high school senior session and they and parents seem to like the look.

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